Low Deflection Shaft

[Patrick Johnson]

So now I'm even more confused as to why you suggested that LD would be more difficult to use.

I said it would be less forgiving of stroke (tip placement) errors. I think it's easier to aim with.

I believe your assumption is that those with a LD are generally not placing their bridges close to the correct pivot point...?

To be clear, I'm assuming both players use the same bridge length (the "average"), and that's different distances from LD vs. HD pivot points.

Which still wouldn't make it any worse than squirt from a non-LD shaft.

Squirt with an LD shaft is better (smaller) not worse - that doesn't change with the bridge position. What changes is how closely the cue angle created by a stroke error matches (counteracts) the shaft's fixed amount of squirt - that happens accurately when the bridge is positioned at the shaft's "squirt pivot point", and less and less accurately as the bridge is farther from there.

My assumptions are that (1) the pivot points for typical HD and LD shafts are <10" for HD and >10" for LD and (2) the average bridge length for all players is <10".

BTW, I don't think the difference is very large for this kind of error - maybe insignificant in most cases.

Pretty sure we're on the same page.... ...I think

Gettin' there... I think.

pj
chgo

 

[The_JV]

I said it would be less forgiving of stroke (tip placement) errors. I think it's easier to aim with.

Ah ok... so in terms of shaft dynamics we're on the same page. You added the the notion that players using the shafts in the same mechanic method would have issues with the LD shaft.

Squirt with an LD shaft is better (smaller) not worse - that doesn't change with the bridge position.

We agree

My assumptions are that (1) the pivot points for typical HD and LD shafts are <10" for HD and >10" for LD and (2) the average bridge length for all players is <10".

Yes, so I'm right in my assessment of your posts. This isn't matter of one shaft vs another but how players generally handle their mechanics with said shafts specifically... ...presumably

Gettin' there... I think.

We're there... you just commenting on something I wasn't including in the conversation earlier on is all

 

[Patrick Johnson]

...so I'm right in my assessment of your posts. This isn't matter of one shaft vs another but how players generally handle their mechanics... ...presumably

I'm assuming the same amount of stroke error (same faulty cue angle) and the different degrees to which HD vs. LD shafts' natural squirt angles match (counteract) that. All about the difference in shaft squirt angles, not player mechanics.

pj
chgo

 

[soyale]

What's the greatest thing about Carbon Fiber Shafts is NO DINGS IN THE SHAFT. With wood i use to get one a week, I became an expert at pulling dents out of a shaft. In the year that i've had a CF shaft ZERO dents. I've came close a few times thinking i might of put a ding in the shaft, but NONE.

Previously I've had days where i could feel the humidity and swelling in wood shafts with carbon it feels the same everyday.

Their was a very minor diffrence coming from a 314-3 to a REVO in reguards to deflection.

how did you manage to ding your shaft once a week?

 

[Zerksies]

how did you manage to ding your shaft once a week?

It’s wood and soft. You look at it funny and theirs a ding

 

[Mustanglee]

I've been playing pool seriously for about 7 mos now. My kids bought me a CF cue with a low deflection shaft. It took a while to get used to but I persevered.

Besides the sleek look of the cue I fail to see how this would improve my game. My $100 Dufferin, regular deflection cue suited me just fine. I was used to using my old Dufferin cue and had adjusted to the deflection and hit of this cue. As far as I can tell all that has happened is I now have a $400 cue that took a few weeks to get used to but hasn't improved my game any. I still have to adjust for deflection albeit less deflection but I fail to see how adjusting to different cue would help anything except I am now using a sharp looking cue.

I feel if I put a hockey stick on a lathe and ground it down put a tip on it, I could adjust and play just as well.

Convince me otherwise.

Didn't Efren win many of his titles with a normal wooden cue?

Sure Efren won plenty with a standard shaft but for most of his carrier there were no carbon fiber shafts available. You say you have been playing only 7 months so I wouldn't expect you to feel the difference. An experienced player can move the cue ball around better, and get a better transfer of english without the deflection of a standard wood shaft.

I've been playing pool seriously for about 7 mos now. My kids bought me a CF cue with a low deflection shaft. It took a while to get used to but I persevered.

Besides the sleek look of the cue I fail to see how this would improve my game. My $100 Dufferin, regular deflection cue suited me just fine. I was used to using my old Dufferin cue and had adjusted to the deflection and hit of this cue. As far as I can tell all that has happened is I now have a $400 cue that took a few weeks to get used to but hasn't improved my game any. I still have to adjust for deflection albeit less deflection but I fail to see how adjusting to different cue would help anything except I am now using a sharp looking cue.

I feel if I put a hockey stick on a lathe and ground it down put a tip on it, I could adjust and play just as well.

Convince me otherwise.

Didn't Efren win many of his titles with a normal wooden cue?

 

[The_JV]

I'm assuming the same amount of stroke error (same faulty cue angle) and the different degrees to which HD vs. LD shafts' natural squirt angles match (counteract) that. All about the difference in shaft squirt angles, not player mechanics.

pj
chgo

 

[bbb]

i havent really studied all the replies
but as a gross generalization
LD shafts are popular because of their forgiveness to off center hits regardless of bridge length
is that correct?

 

[Sheldon]

i havent really studied all the replies
but as a gross generalization
LD shafts are popular because of their forgiveness to off center hits regardless of bridge length
is that correct?

It's because you need less adjustment when using english.

 

[bbb]

It's because you need less adjustment when using english.

i havent really studied all the replies
but as a gross generalization
LD shafts are popular because of their forgiveness to off center hits regardless of bridge length
is that correct?

i understand that sheldon
but JV and PJ were going back and forth on bridge length effects
so i may have mis stated what i wanted to say
let me say if a different way
LD shafts would be more forgiving for off center hits than HD shafts regardless of bridge lengths
is that correct?

 

[SpiderWebComm]

LD shafts would be more forgiving for off center hits than HD shafts regardless of bridge lengths
is that correct?

I was always under the impression that it was the man or woman behind the shaft and butt that made whatever they used
equally accurate with or without spin and the primary rule being "know thine shaft and know how to train it."
What are the parameters to qualify for being labeled LD vs. HD shafts besides carbon fiber vs. wood?

 

[Patrick Johnson]

LD shafts would be more forgiving for off center hits than HD shafts regardless of bridge lengths

LD shafts are typically less forgiving for stroke error offcenter hits - because normal bridge lengths are farther from LD pivot points than from HD pivot points.

It may be counterintuitive because we think of LD as being easier to adjust for squirt - that's different from stroke error..

pj
chgo

 

[Patrick Johnson]

What are the parameters to qualify for being labeled LD vs. HD shafts besides carbon fiber vs. wood?

Here's how I see them - based on the Platinum Billiards chart of common squirt/pivot points.

pj
chgo

 

[SpiderWebComm]

i havent really studied all the replies
but as a gross generalization
LD shafts are popular because of their forgiveness to off center hits regardless of bridge length
is that correct?

Here's how I see them - based on the Platinum Billiards chart of common squirt/pivot points.

pj
chgo
View attachment 716299

You've missed your calling as a business tycoon as well as a boatload of money by not reproducing the specs on your cue since the rage now is all about deflection. Less expensive for the buyer also since it's wood.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

You've missed your calling as a business tycoon as well as a boatload of money by not reproducing the specs on your cue since the rage now is all about deflection. Less expensive for the buyer also since it's wood.

10mm hollow point with straight taper and short ferrule (made for me by Ed Young if that helps).

Be my guest... get rich.

pj
chgo

 

[9Ballr]

I've been playing pool seriously for about 7 mos now. My kids bought me a CF cue with a low deflection shaft. It took a while to get used to but I persevered.

Besides the sleek look of the cue I fail to see how this would improve my game. My $100 Dufferin, regular deflection cue suited me just fine. I was used to using my old Dufferin cue and had adjusted to the deflection and hit of this cue. As far as I can tell all that has happened is I now have a $400 cue that took a few weeks to get used to but hasn't improved my game any. I still have to adjust for deflection albeit less deflection but I fail to see how adjusting to different cue would help anything except I am now using a sharp looking cue.

I feel if I put a hockey stick on a lathe and ground it down put a tip on it, I could adjust and play just as well.

Convince me otherwise.

Didn't Efren win many of his titles with a normal wooden cue?

Give it back to your kids and tell them “what the hell were you thinking?
Don’t forget to slam your fist in the table.

 

[bbb]

LD shafts are typically less forgiving for stroke error offcenter hits - because normal bridge lengths are farther from LD pivot points than from HD pivot points.

It may be counterintuitive because we think of LD as being easier to adjust for squirt - that's different from stroke error..

pj
chgo

I dont get it
if you aim at almost the same spot with spin(LD SHAFT)
how is hitting with unintentional spin at the same spot different?

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I dont get it
if you aim at almost the same spot with spin(LD SHAFT)
how is hitting with unintentional spin at the same spot different?

When you hit an off center spot intentionally you intentionally angle your cue to accurately correct for that amount of squirt. When you hit the same spot unintentionally (because of stroke error) you angle it accidentally, most likely inaccurately, pivoting at the bridge.

If your bridge is right at your shaft’s pivot point your cue will be angled the same (correct) amount either way. The farther your bridge is from your shaft’s pivot point, the farther the accidental angle will be from the correct one.

pj
chgo

 

[SpiderWebComm]

10mm hollow point with straight taper and short ferrule (made for me by Ed Young if that helps).

Be my guest... get rich.

pj
chgo

No thanks. It's all your baby. Getting rich is from other means outside of pool far more beneficial and fruitful than a pool cue. Playing with a 10mm tip would be like playing with a Phillips head screwdriver at the end of a shaft. Not for me.

 

[bbb]

When you hit an off center spot intentionally you intentionally angle your cue to accurately correct for that amount of squirt. When you hit the same spot unintentionally (because of stroke error) you angle it accidentally, most likely inaccurately, pivoting at the bridge.

If your bridge is right at your shaft’s pivot point your cue will be angled the same (correct) amount either way. The farther your bridge is from your shaft’s pivot point, the farther the accidental angle will be from the correct one.

pj
chgo

As usual i respect your opinion PJ and since you are right most times i will take your answer as true
But here is what still doesnt make sense
The majority of players are not pro so the majority of players do not have perfect strokes so many of them get unintentional spin alot of the time
and most amateurs do not use alot of spin
Also many players use BHE which is a pivot and most dont bridge at the pivot point for a LD shaft

If the LD shaft would make them miss more because of the above
I am surprised LD shafts became so popular
Last
Since end mass determines squirt
And LD shafts have less end mass
It still seems to me a slightly off center hit with a LD shaft should should stay closer to the aim line
I guess i am dense and or stubborn