Low Deflection shafts, Are they worth it?

[HawaiianEye]

I think they only reason people say they use throw or english to "help" them make a ball is because they can't aim at the real aiming point and are just hitting how they can make a ball. If you could hit the spot you need to, you should be able to do it with center ball and make the ball, if you need to put spin on the ball to deflect it to that point, you are just not aiming right in the first place and using that deflection to adjust. Yes you can have spin on the ball to help make the picket bigger so it spins in off the facing cushion, but if you actually need to spin a ball to find the hole, that's bad aim to begin with no matter how good you play.

When I put "spin" on the ball, it usually isn't to make the ball...it is to move the cue ball around the table after the shot.

A bit of deflection will allow you to have a bit more "swerve" or "hook" coming into the object ball which will allow you to change the angle some.

I'm not advocating which you should choose...choose whatever makes you play better.

 

[HawaiianEye]

But ball deflection, squirt. is a straight line component & NOT a curve.

It's the spin that yields the curved swerve of the ball.

Why throw the bowling ball at the gutter & hook it back when you can throw it at the 10 pin & hook it back?

Best 2 Ya.

You aren't going to get much deflection if you don't put spin on the ball. I can shoot straight center ball with a telephone pole.

 

[JoeyA]

I'm shooting 31 inch shafts at about 12mm and 11.75mm, and loving it.


.

So you ARE playing with LD Shafts.........................

JoeyA

 

[erhino41]

If you spin the ball at all you are using spin to make the ball. Throw is the reason why I say nothing is straight in pool. The only time you are really hitting the "ghost ball" spot on the ob is when the ball is straight in and you are hitting dead on the center axis, other wise you are adjusting that point somehow. If you are cutting the call there is cit, if you are spinning the ball there is sit. You may still hit that spot by using only enough sit to counteract the cit, but you are still adjusting for squirt and maybe swerve.

 

[erhino41]

And yet, hitting a baseball is 20 times harder then hitting a golf ball. So, if a metal bat produces a few "straighter" balls coming off the bat, or they go 20% further... hey, why not.

Now, if your a stud baseball player, and the extra 20% matters not to you because you clear the fence by 30 feet or more on your home runs, when then great, you saved yourself a few bucks. And I'm not gonna make fun of your "woody"

But nobody speaks poorly of metal bats, even the guys that use wood bats. Played in a league where you could use either. 80% chose the metal bats, even the little guys, cause that ground ball might get through the infield a little faster, and thus, squeak out a few more hits over the course of a season.

But just like any comparison,,,, if you can't swing a wood bat "correctly", the metal bat is not gonna help much

Apples and oranges. There is a reason mlb doesn't allow metal bats. Aluminum had extreme advantages over wood when it comes to generating speed and transferring energy to a baseball. That is not the case with ld shafts. They are not better they are just different. I do agree with your last statement, though.

P.s. I need more magic chalk,pm to follow.

 

[ENGLISH!]

You aren't going to get much deflection if you don't put spin on the ball. I can shoot straight center ball with a telephone pole.

How much does a ball curve before contact with an OB if you hit off center on the equator of the ball with a 'level' cue?

What you are talking about is the swerve curve.

Are you saying that a LD shaft does not spin the ball as much as a LD shaft?

Spin & lack of speed = curve.

The only difference is the alignment of the different shafts on different lines to get the ball started on the same line.

I know exactly the type of shot that you are talking about & I thought that that extreme approach angle change might not be had from a LD, but it can be had.

It's just that for that type of shot one must align the cue more 'off line'.

That's basically the only time that it must be 'aimed' more 'off line'.

Best 2 Ya.

 

[Drop The Rock]

We all know full well that long shots with inside are very difficult and the only person who can shoot them with ease with a regular shaft is Efren. A lot of long shots are difficult to make with a lot of spin with a regular shaft because of the compensation.

For arguments sake, lets imagine pool is a mental game lol. I'd want to use as little mental effort as possible when shooting shots. Its for this reason that there are plenty of pros who use LD shafts. This combined with the benefits during a mishit situation make LD shafts worth it IMO. If you are a pro and your livelihood depends on making balls in the off chance you mishit a shot because you stroke is weak or whatever the situation may be, would you want that to be there to save you?

Personally I think laminated LD shafts are all well and fine but a solid LD shaft is the best of both worlds.

As I said before. Mezz and Samsara have both done exceptional jobs at producing these types of shafts. Chris Dinniger of CDX has as well.

 

[ENGLISH!]

If you spin the ball at all you are using spin to make the ball. Throw is the reason why I say nothing is straight in pool. The only time you are really hitting the "ghost ball" spot on the ob is when the ball is straight in and you are hitting dead on the center axis, other wise you are adjusting that point somehow. If you are cutting the call there is cit, if you are spinning the ball there is sit. You may still hit that spot by using only enough sit to counteract the cit, but you are still adjusting for squirt and maybe swerve.

So why not use a tool that requires less adjustment?

Best 2 Ya.

 

[hang-the-9]

When I put "spin" on the ball, it usually isn't to make the ball...it is to move the cue ball around the table after the shot.

A bit of deflection will allow you to have a bit more "swerve" or "hook" coming into the object ball which will allow you to change the angle some.

I'm not advocating which you should choose...choose whatever makes you play better.

Sorry I misread what you meant about using spin on the shots, there are many players who I heard use deflection to make balls though while aiming during other discussions on LD shafts.

 

[ENGLISH!]

We all know full well that long shots with inside are very difficult and the only person who can shoot them with ease with a regular shaft is Efren. A lot of long shots are difficult to make with a lot of spin with a regular shaft because of the compensation.

For arguments sake, lets imagine pool is a mental game lol. I'd want to use as little mental effort as possible when shooting shots. Its for this reason that there are plenty of pros who use LD shafts. This combined with the benefits during a mishit situation make LD shafts worth it IMO. If you are a pro and your livelihood depends on making balls in the off chance you mishit a shot because you stroke is weak or whatever the situation may be, would you want that to be there to save you?

Personally I think laminated LD shafts are all well and fine but a solid LD shaft is the best of both worlds.

As I said before. Mezz and Samsara have both done exceptional jobs at producing these types of shafts. Chris Dinniger of CDX has as well.

What you say here like is my golf analogy where pro golfers are playing for more than $1,000,000 every week & they do NOT want to miss the cut & a paycheck or lose the tournament because of one or two miss hits.

Best 2 Ya,
Rick

PS1 Long thin cut shots are probably easiest to make with inside when it is done with the TOI method & not trying to spin them in.

PS2 If someone want a 'solid' LD production shaft the McDermott line is what I would recommend as they are one piece cored with a carbon fiber tube inserted.

 

[HawaiianEye]

We all know full well that long shots with inside are very difficult and the only person who can shoot them with ease with a regular shaft is Efren. A lot of long shots are difficult to make with a lot of spin with a regular shaft because of the compensation.

For arguments sake, lets imagine pool is a mental game lol. I'd want to use as little mental effort as possible when shooting shots. Its for this reason that there are plenty of pros who use LD shafts. This combined with the benefits during a mishit situation make LD shafts worth it IMO. If you are a pro and your livelihood depends on making balls in the off chance you mishit a shot because you stroke is weak or whatever the situation may be, would you want that to be there to save you?

Personally I think laminated LD shafts are all well and fine but a solid LD shaft is the best of both worlds.

As I said before. Mezz and Samsara have both done exceptional jobs at producing these types of shafts. Chris Dinniger of CDX has as well.

There are a lot of "old school" players that are comfortable using inside English with regular shafts and LD shafts. I hit "inside" the center of the cue ball on almost every shot...and that is by INTENTION...not by ACCIDENT. I play position so that I will be using "inside" English or natural roll.

The reason Efren does what he does so well is because he plays and executes "old school" play with old-school equipment better than his younger opponent does with his "new age" equipment and lack of knowledge and experience, compared to Efren.

FWIW, every cue that I ever chose to be my "player" had deflection that I could control. Most of my shafts were made of solid maple, were 14mm, and had one inch ferrules. Just because they were made like that, didn't mean they were so high deflection that you couldn't hit a ball with them.

If you have a shaft, of any type, that you can't hit a ball properly with at the other end of the table, you need to get rid of it or you need some more practice. If you still can't do it then, you need to take up another sport that you can excel at.

 

[KRJ]

If you have a shaft, of any type, that you can't hit a ball properly with at the other end of the table, you need to get rid of it or you need some more practice. If you still can't do it then, you need to take up another sport that you can excel at.

Where did he say he can't hit a ball properly at the other end of table. He said using inside on a long shot is hard for many folks, even some pretty good folks. Thus, with an LD shaft it's a lot easier for a lot of folks.

And guys like you, who can shoot from anywhere, with a broom stick, using 7 tips of inside English with one eye closed, well, God Bless you.... I'm not being a smart arse, just saying, lucky you that you have some natural talent that allows you to do it easily.

Most, if NOT all league players are quite aware they will never be good enough to ever shoot at pro level or even shortstop level, but getting a little better, and beating your buddies, and wining on league night is fun, which is why I thought we all play this crazy game in the first place :thumbup:

Thus, I really only like LD's for the inside English shots (close and far) and the long running English shots, or the close cut shots that need to be hit hard with English. It's not like we are spending a fortune. A shaft for a custom cue maker costs about the same, so it's not like we are spending extra for anything.

 

[erhino41]

So why not use a tool that requires less adjustment?

Best 2 Ya.

Not less adjustment, different adjustment. I have played shot with alot of different ld shafts. The do not require less adjustment, only different adjustment.

If the difference is so drastic and the adjustment was so much less, it would take more than 15 minutes to change a lifetime worth of learning.

I can jump from ld to "high" deflection without any problems.

 

[KRJ]

Not less adjustment, different adjustment. I have played shot with alot of different ld shafts. The do not require less adjustment, only different adjustment.

Yes, less adjustment. And in many cases NO adjustment at all. On med length table shots, on a bar box, I adjust nothing, don't need to. Makes playing easier and less complicated.

Of course, if you like it the other way, there is not a LD user on the planet they would think about talking you out of it, tell you not to use maple, just enjoy what you like if it works for you. Congrats.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Not less adjustment, different adjustment. I have played shot with alot of different ld shafts. The do not require less adjustment, only different adjustment.

I said that about a certain type of shot.

I'll rephrase for you.

Why not use a tool that requires less alignment adjustment for the 'same' shot?

Best 2 Ya.

 

[erhino41]

You do not perceive the adjustment because you are used to making it. Congrats! Hitting any spot that is different than the perfect "ghost ball" spot takes the same amount of effort regardless of how far away from that spot it is. Hitting your spot is hiring your spot. Once you figure out the obvious for a particular shaft ld or hd it's ask the same.

 

[ENGLISH!]

You do not perceive the adjustment because you are used to making it. Congrats! Hitting any spot that is different than the perfect "ghost ball" spot takes the same amount of effort regardless of how far away from that spot it is. Hitting your spot is hiring your spot. Once you figure out the obvious for a particular shaft ld or hd it's ask the same.

No offense but you are starting to remind me of Patrick Johnson (& that is not a compliment :wink

If I am hitting the 'same' shot at two different times with an identical off center outside tip hit on the CB...

I will need to align farther to the side for the reg. shaft than for the LD shaft.

To '99.9 %' of individuals that is more adjustment for the reg. shaft than the LD shaft.

Now you will say that if I am aligned differently, then I am not hitting with an identical tip location.

I understand relativity.


Best Wishes for You & Yours.

 

[KRJ]

You do not perceive the adjustment because you are used to making it. Congrats! Hitting any spot that is different than the perfect "ghost ball" spot takes the same amount of effort regardless of how far away from that spot it is. Hitting your spot is hiring your spot. Once you figure out the obvious for a particular shaft ld or hd it's ask the same.

but we find it easier to adjust a tiny bit, than more than a tiny bit. and yes, I don't adjuster on med length table shots, cause it is not necessary. The same shot with a maple shaft and I miss it, or at best I rattle the pocket.

Again, if you can adjust at will. God Bless and good shooting.

 

[Drop The Rock]

There are a lot of "old school" players that are comfortable using inside English with regular shafts and LD shafts. I hit "inside" the center of the cue ball on almost every shot...and that is by INTENTION...not by ACCIDENT. I play position so that I will be using "inside" English or natural roll.

The reason Efren does what he does so well is because he plays and executes "old school" play with old-school equipment better than his younger opponent does with his "new age" equipment and lack of knowledge and experience, compared to Efren.

FWIW, every cue that I ever chose to be my "player" had deflection that I could control. Most of my shafts were made of solid maple, were 14mm, and had one inch ferrules. Just because they were made like that, didn't mean they were so high deflection that you couldn't hit a ball with them.

If you have a shaft, of any type, that you can't hit a ball properly with at the other end of the table, you need to get rid of it or you need some more practice. If you still can't do it then, you need to take up another sport that you can excel at.

Manny Chau, Jerry Calderon, Jason Klapp, Danny Smith are 4 pros who have said almost exactly what I did but in their own words. I don't know Danny that well but Manny is practically my son's adopted uncle and Jerry has shown me a fair amount. Both players started playing with regular maple shafts.

I'm not saying old school is wrong or that new school is better, but I am saying that LD shafts have made it easier for people. Guys like Efren who are the top 0.001% of players could run out with a wet pool noodle, even with inside lol!

I know their are several techniques that making shooting with extreme english, including inside a lot easier. I use some of them even now. I'm playing with 1 inch ferrule 12.5 mm maple shaft, which compared to a regular 314-2/3 has a lot of deflection. Its not as forgiving but my speed control is much better than with a predator for some reason, could be the lighter wrapless cue too. I don't care for the laminated thing anymore. I have played with 13.1mm shafts and several LDs.

My ultimate point is that there are benefits and LD shafts aren't a gimmick. Will it help a champion? No probably not, Short stop? probably not. A player? Maybe not. B player, possibly. C player? Probably. D player, not likely.

What you say here like is my golf analogy where pro golfers are playing for more than $1,000,000 every week & they do NOT want to miss the cut & a paycheck or lose the tournament because of one or two miss hits.

Best 2 Ya,
Rick

PS1 Long thin cut shots are probably easiest to make with inside when it is done with the TOI method & not trying to spin them in.

PS2 If someone want a 'solid' LD production shaft the McDermott line is what I would recommend as they are one piece cored with a carbon fiber tube inserted.

I agree with your comparison with shooting thin shots with inside rather than outside. If I need to cut a ball paper thin I use plain ball or inside. Its much easier for the brain to interpret deflection going away from the object ball rather than toward it because you always have the object ball to measure with.

Mind you if I'm playing one pocket I'll use plain ball or outside so I make sure cue ball comes back up table.

 

[Drop The Rock]

You do not perceive the adjustment because you are used to making it. Congrats! Hitting any spot that is different than the perfect "ghost ball" spot takes the same amount of effort regardless of how far away from that spot it is. Hitting your spot is hiring your spot. Once you figure out the obvious for a particular shaft ld or hd it's ask the same.

I have no bone to pick with you sir but I can use an LD shaft and aim with the ferrule, with near pin point precision without any concept of ghost ball. I can't do that with a standard shaft. Not with 2+ tips of spin at least. I don't need to because I use my brain place and just get down and shoot. THAT BEING SAID. In pressure situations, because able to have an aid in aiming is helpful.