Low Deflection shafts, Are they worth it?

[KRJ]

What's the most popular LD shaft and does any LD shaft use ivory ferrules?

I don't have the foggiest notion which LD shaft plays the best. I'm also pretty sure that LD shafts use their own ferrule designs and ivory isn't one of them.I play with original maple shafts on all of my cues & if there really was a true advantage to using them, I might have one sent to my cue-maker to get the collar matched. Having played with original shafts for 55 years, I am pretty reliant on the deflection path/allowance for my cues striking a cue ball at every imaginable speed and distance having pocketed in excess of a million pool balls during my lifetime of playing pool. So changing now is against my nature when I really believe that if Willie could accomplish what no other human has achieved with his world records and total domination of the game of pool for decades playing with original shafts like all the other greats of his era also used, why the hell do I need a LD shaft?

Now notice that I wrote "need" not want and I am making a distinction between the two. I find it hard to associate my original maple shafts for my overall level of performance rather than just recognize I'd benefit more from practice & focus on my overall pool game. I don't think this is like golf equipment where it can help turn you into a better player. So is there a best LD shaft and does any LD shafts use an ivory ferrule?

Thanks,

Matt B.

No, LD do not use Ivory ferrules.

Times changes, equipment gets better. Does not mean everyone has to change. But why argue the point? LD shaft do something that is simple, it allows folks to aim where they want to hit, thus for most shots, no adjustment is necessary.

I'm sure Mosconi used non premium chalk, while shooting on no name brand cloth, with older style balls, using a hard non layered tip, shooting without A/C in many places, and possibly having some inferior rubber on the rails, on various tables that prob all played differently, all the while shooting in uncomfortable shoes

No, thanks, I'll take my LD, layered tip, prem chalk, A/C, Simonis, with new Aramith balls, while shooting on a Diamond table, if you don't mind :thumbup:

 

[EddieBme]

It really just depends. I know several pros and short stops that like LD shafts. Some like as close to zero as possible, others like a little bit. Preference is key. On shots with extreme inside english, LD shafts have always been a little easier for me. If I were to go back to an LD shaft today it would be either Samsara or Mezz in all likelihood because I prefer the solid feel.

Does Earl still use Mike Gulyassy's cues? Do you know if he uses a LD shaft on his playing cue?

 

[EddieBme]

Been playing with an hxt shaft for the pasted 7 months. Don't really care for it. Have a new cue on the way , with a solid maple shaft. Are these expensive LD shafts really worth it ? (Ob/predator)Do pros mostly still use solid maple shafts or is it a 50/50 thing? I don't see how they can be that much of an advantage as long as your solid with a reg shaft. Yes/No?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I play with solid maple shafts made back in 80's to early 90's, (some custom), 12.5-13.25mm, and they all play very different. But like someone else posted, a LD shaft may help you improve your game. I'd certainly like to have a good LD shaft to try, (not the hxt) but a OB, predator, Mezz, etc., to see if I could reach a higher plateau. So let us know how it goes for you.

 

[magicrat69210]

i think earl uses a maple shaft tapered Exactly how he is feeling at that time.....i use a predator and started playing about 9 years ago....i think the only advantage is the fact that u can always get a shaft that plays the same way which could be invaluable if you are a high level player. I personally feel i get more spin with one but you can get plenty of spin with any decent cue.

 

[ENGLISH!]

What's the most popular LD shaft and does any LD shaft use ivory ferrules?

I don't have the foggiest notion which LD shaft plays the best. I'm also pretty sure that LD shafts use their own ferrule designs and ivory isn't one of them.I play with original maple shafts on all of my cues & if there really was a true advantage to using them, I might have one sent to my cue-maker to get the collar matched. Having played with original shafts for 55 years, I am pretty reliant on the deflection path/allowance for my cues striking a cue ball at every imaginable speed and distance having pocketed in excess of a million pool balls during my lifetime of playing pool. So changing now is against my nature when I really believe that if Willie could accomplish what no other human has achieved with his world records and total domination of the game of pool for decades playing with original shafts like all the other greats of his era also used, why the hell do I need a LD shaft?

Now notice that I wrote "need" not want and I am making a distinction between the two. I find it hard to associate my original maple shafts for my overall level of performance rather than just recognize I'd benefit more from practice & focus on my overall pool game. I don't think this is like golf equipment where it can help turn you into a better player. So is there a best LD shaft and does any LD shafts use an ivory ferrule?

Thanks,

Matt B.

I would certainly say that you do not "need" an LD shaft. I did not "need" one either. Hell I was playing very well with a graphite cue that I kept in the trunk of my car for quite a while. New Orleans can be tough on cues left in the weather.

But if you would like to try a couple to maybe save a rattled shot or two, I would suggest the McDermott "i" series as they are cored maple with a carbon tube. The G-Core is only done for the first 9 to 12 inches, while the i2 is done for the 'full' length & the i3 is the 11.75 European/Conical version.

Personally I like the OB line just a bit better.

You Stay & Shoot Well,
Rick

 

[erhino41]

Indeed, perfect aim is useless if one can't hit the proper place on the cue ball.

That would seem to go without saying.

But I don't believe an LD shaft helps straighten your stroke or in fact do anything at all before contacting that point and hence can't help you find it.


But I don't think we really disagree. Just getting at it from different perspectives.

Relate it to a rifle, like a long sniper shot. If you know the point of impact is consistently 3 inches left, you just shoot 3 inches left all the time. When the wind is stronger or weaker that point changes, when the barrel gets hot that point changes, so you learn to compensate for the multiple varying factors.

LS simple minimizes one of those factors. Nothing else as far as I can see. I don't think it will correct an inconsistent stroke.

.

I think a comparison to an ld shaft in this analogy would be bullet that is less affected by the wind. With a normal bullet you have to adjust three inches, but if you misread the wind when you shoot you miss by for inches. If they bullet were less affected by the wind you may only miss by two inches. That might be the difference between life or death. This analogy isn't very apt, but it is along the lines of what they are talking about. I on the other hand would rather fix my faults than buy equipment to "correct" the problem..

 

[ENGLISH!]

I think a comparison to an ld shaft in this analogy would be bullet that is less affected by the wind. With a normal bullet you have to adjust three inches, but if you move a hair while you shoot you miss by for inches. If they bullet were less affected by the wind you may only miss by two inches. That might be the difference between life or death. This analogy isn't very apt, but it is along the lines of what they are talking about. I on the other hand would rather fix my faults than buy equipment to "correct" the problem..

I made a similar analogy using rifle sights that are off by different amounts. To me, less adjustment is better.

As to your last statement... I do not think anyone is saying that a LD shaft is going turn a bad stroke into a Champion & to buy an LD shaft instead of fixing one's stroke.

Many pro golfers that played very good golf resisted cavity backed irons & metal 'woods'. I think those are analogous to LD shafts.

Those that resisted saw the climb of the slightly lessor players because the game improvement clubs were helping them.

They were playing for $1,000,000 or more every week.

So... they could not afford to miss the cut or loose because of one bad swing.

Hence, they made the switch.

If the equipment can save one shot a set or a couple per much, how valuable is that?

Could it be the difference between winning & losing?

Certainly it can be & that is what it is about, as well as, that less adjustment needed.

Best Wishes for You & Yours & ALL.

 

[erhino41]

I understand that you are not saying that an ld shaft will not fix a bad stroke. The argument is that if you miss hit it will not make the impact on the shot as much. I personally do not like to think like that because that kind of thinking allows you to fall back on in accuracy instead of fixing it.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I understand that you are not saying that an ld shaft will not fix a bad stroke. The argument is that if you miss hit it will not make the impact on the shot as much. I personally do not like to think like that because that kind of thinking allows you to fall back on in accuracy instead of fixing it.

Well, all i can say is that you are certainly entitled to speak for yourself.

But perhaps you have an incorrect idea of how much or little an LD shaft can do.

Not long ago I had an issue where I was putting a hair of right english on the CB when I did not intend to do so.

How did I come to know that. It's because the LD shaft could NOT save ALL of those shots.

I had to fix that fault.

If one has the attitude that an LD shaft is the supreme savior they will be sadly disappointed.

Best Wishes for You & Yours, Sir.

 

[erhino41]

The golf analogy, and there are some similarities, is not very apt in my opinion. Not that it is a bad analogy, because there are definite correlations. Hitting a golf ball is far harder and fraught with far more peril than hitting a cue ball.

 

[erhino41]

Well, all i can say is that you are certainly entitled to speak for yourself.

But perhaps you have an incorrect idea of how much or little an LD shaft can do.

Not long ago I had an issue where I was putting a hair of right english on the CB when I did not intend to do so.

How did I come to know that. It's because the LD shaft could NOT save ALL of those shots.

I had to fix that fault.

If one has the attitude that an LD shaft is the supreme savior they will be sadly disappointed.

Best Wishes for You & Yours, Sir.

I am glad that you were able to fix the problem with your stroke. I would argue that it shouldn't have taken an ld shaft to notice and correct that mistake, however it worked for you and that is all that matters.

The problem is that there are a lot of people who will have you believe that ld shaft is the supreme savior. I'm glad you don't feel that way. At the end of the day one is not better than the other, they are only different and require different adjustments to use.

 

[hang-the-9]

The best shaft to use is one that matches your game. Bustamante would probably miss 90% of his shots if he used an LD shaft, Dechaine would probably miss 90% of his shots with spin using a regular shaft.

If you can aim and shoot with an LD shaft, and the HXT one is not good for you, try an OB or Predator, or even a different diameter HXT.

No person new to LD shafts will be able to pick out one they can play with optimally in under a year I think.

It just takes too long to adjust to a change like that and to find out what matches how your aim and stroke go.

You don't need to use an LD shaft just because others do. If you can't play with an HXT shaft, or just don't like the hit, go back to using a regular shaft, nothing wrong with that.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I am glad that you were able to fix the problem with your stroke. I would argue that it shouldn't have taken an ld shaft to notice and correct that mistake, however it worked for you and that is all that matters.

The problem is that there are a lot of people who will have you believe that ld shaft is the supreme savior. I'm glad you don't feel that way. At the end of the day one is not better than the other, they are only different and require different adjustments to use.

Agreed & Thanks.

That issue was something that popped up well after I had switched.

Yes, I just think that less adjustment for my subconscious mind to make is better than what the regular maple had it doing for 45+ years.

Also, given the margin for error of the pocket, an LD shaft can save some shots that just might otherwise be missed for whatever reason & that is another plus.

Naturally as it should be, each individual should & will make their own determinations as to what type shaft they will play.

Best 2 Ya.

 

[KRJ]

The golf analogy, and there are some similarities, is not very apt in my opinion. Not that it is a bad analogy, because there are definite correlations. Hitting a golf ball is far harder and fraught with far more peril than hitting a cue ball.

And yet, hitting a baseball is 20 times harder then hitting a golf ball. So, if a metal bat produces a few "straighter" balls coming off the bat, or they go 20% further... hey, why not.

Now, if your a stud baseball player, and the extra 20% matters not to you because you clear the fence by 30 feet or more on your home runs, when then great, you saved yourself a few bucks. And I'm not gonna make fun of your "woody"

But nobody speaks poorly of metal bats, even the guys that use wood bats. Played in a league where you could use either. 80% chose the metal bats, even the little guys, cause that ground ball might get through the infield a little faster, and thus, squeak out a few more hits over the course of a season.

But just like any comparison,,,, if you can't swing a wood bat "correctly", the metal bat is not gonna help much

 

[ENGLISH!]

The best shaft to use is one that matches your game. Bustamante would probably miss 90% of his shots if he used an LD shaft, Dechaine would probably miss 90% of his shots with spin using a regular shaft.

If you can aim and shoot with an LD shaft, and the HXT one is not good for you, try an OB or Predator, or even a different diameter HXT.

No person new to LD shafts will be able to pick out one they can play with optimally in under a year I think.

It just takes too long to adjust to a change like that and to find out what matches how your aim and stroke go.

You don't need to use an LD shaft just because others do. If you can't play with an HXT shaft, or just don't like the hit, go back to using a regular shaft, nothing wrong with that.

I made the adjustment in about 10 to 15 minutes & in 2 session for 'ALL' of the shots at the different speeds.

Someone has said that he thinks I am the exception rather than the rule.

That said, I think the subconscious mind is an amazing entity.

If one is trying to make the adjustments consciously, then I can certainly see how it might take a year.

Best to Ya.

 

[HawaiianEye]

Pool is sort of like bowling. Most professional bowlers throw a "hook" of some sort and come into the "pocket".

When you have more deflection, you are either "hooking" more into the object ball (pocket) or away from it, depending upon your hand position, spin, speed, and swerve. You have to understand and be able to control it.

You don't see many bowlers throwing a straight ball, unless it is for a spare. That is the same as going for a "cinch" shot. with dead center hit, in pool where making the ball is the only objective.

I have LD shafts and regular maple shafts...some "hook" more than others.

 

[hang-the-9]

Pool is sort of like bowling. Most professional bowlers throw a "hook" of some sort and come into the "pocket".

When you have more deflection, you are either "hooking" more into the object ball (pocket) or away from it, depending upon your hand position, spin, speed, and swerve. You have to understand and be able to control it.

You don't see many bowlers throwing a straight ball, unless it is for a spare. That is the same as going for a "cinch" shot. with dead center hit, in pool where making the ball is the only objective.

I have LD shafts and regular maple shafts...some "hook" more than others.

I think they only reason people say they use throw or english to "help" them make a ball is because they can't aim at the real aiming point and are just hitting how they can make a ball. If you could hit the spot you need to, you should be able to do it with center ball and make the ball, if you need to put spin on the ball to deflect it to that point, you are just not aiming right in the first place and using that deflection to adjust. Yes you can have spin on the ball to help make the picket bigger so it spins in off the facing cushion, but if you actually need to spin a ball to find the hole, that's bad aim to begin with no matter how good you play.

 

[ENGLISH!]

The golf analogy, and there are some similarities, is not very apt in my opinion. Not that it is a bad analogy, because there are definite correlations. Hitting a golf ball is far harder and fraught with far more peril than hitting a cue ball.

You miss hit a golf ball, it goes off the intended line & it misses the fairway... or the green.

You miss hit the cue ball it goes off line & the object ball misses the pocket.

Cavity back irons & metal 'woods' reduce the amount the miss hit causes the ball to go off line & hence the ball still finds the fairway... or the green.

A LD shaft reduces the amount that the miss hit causes the ball to go off line & hence the object ball finds the pocket by an amount off of center pocket.

If anything there is LESS margin for error in pool than golf (Just ask Earl) & it is more important to get an assist.

Best 2 Ya.

 

[erhino41]

Pool is sort of like bowling. Most professional bowlers throw a "hook" of some sort and come into the "pocket".

When you have more deflection, you are either "hooking" more into the object ball (pocket) or away from it, depending upon your hand position, spin, speed, and swerve. You have to understand and be able to control it.

You don't see many bowlers throwing a straight ball, unless it is for a spare. That is the same as going for a "cinch" shot. with dead center hit, in pool where making the ball is the only objective.

I have LD shafts and regular maple shafts...some "hook" more than others.

Good observation. People who don't understand this get sold on the idea that less squirt equals straighter, and straighter is better. The more you understand that nothing in pool is straight, the more you actually understand the game itself, and the more you realize that different equipment is not better just different.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Pool is sort of like bowling. Most professional bowlers throw a "hook" of some sort and come into the "pocket".

When you have more deflection, you are either "hooking" more into the object ball (pocket) or away from it, depending upon your hand position, spin, speed, and swerve. You have to understand and be able to control it.

You don't see many bowlers throwing a straight ball, unless it is for a spare. That is the same as going for a "cinch" shot. with dead center hit, in pool where making the ball is the only objective.

I have LD shafts and regular maple shafts...some "hook" more than others.

But ball deflection, squirt. is a straight line component & NOT a curve.

It's the spin that yields the curved swerve of the ball.

Why throw the bowling ball at the gutter & hook it back when you can throw it at the 10 pin & hook it back?

Best 2 Ya.