low deflection shafts?

rustysregular10

rustysregular10

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I would like to start off by saying im not a great pool player, or a know it all. I just want to voice my opinion and see what others think. if youve read any of my other posts, you know that i shoot with a 14mm shaft. its what i like and it feels good. im a center ball player. i feel thats where the best shots come from and easier position. is it prettier than using a ton of english, no way. but it gets the job done. some players cant shoot without english. so i say theres no cb deflection with a 14mm shaft. that being said, my first question is did the pros in the 80s and mostly 90s have ld shafts? no they did not and theyre still some of the best players in the world. why are the ld shafts segmented? impo i feel its because the shaft diameter is too tiny. i know everybody thinks the smaller the tip the more english right? wrong. the smaller the tip the higher percentage of miscues. the segmented wood takes the flex out of the shaft and allows for a much stiffer hit, which i think is great. i am a fan of stiff hitting cues. if you take all the wood segments away, youre left eith basically a meucci. im not saying its a bad thing, its just not my thing. so please post some comments and tell me your opinions on low deflection shafts, why you love em or why you hate em. and if youd like to post some cue pics please free. im a huge fan of cue pics.
 
I love mine because they play well - even on stopshots. My old shafts just makes it harder.

Even Steve Davis said he would have liked to play ld when he started playing snooker.

But if you think you play better with a reg. shaft then you probably do.
 
Not all LD shafts are segmented and/or small diameter. My CA$H LD ferrule-less shafts are solid Maple and give you another way to get the LD.
 
Your post is a little disturbing.
You seem to be asking some questions but then you supply your own answers.
You're not the first person to inquire about L/D shafts so unless you're just looking for someone to argue with, you might want to do a search where you'll find more on the subject than you can throw a QB at.

14mm shafts are fine, just a little old-school. The game has progressed since then. If 14mm is what you prefer then have at it. No one says you have to play with anything different.
The theory behind segmenting a shaft is to provide stiffness (as you've noted), providing radial consistency and to resist warping.

I'm not trying to change your thinking but as a side-note, fire & the wheel DO work.
 
I use LD shafts - OB1 and CA$H LD. They both feel great to me - though they do feel different - and, more importantly, they both perform wonderfully, imo.
Equipment is different in general today than in the past. Many use "modern technology" shafts that didn't in years past. Many don't.
Bottom line #1 - If you use whatever long enough to become used to it, and it works for you... enjoy it and continue, or experiment further & enjoy that, too.
Bottom line #2 - LD shaft knocking threads have been done ad infinitum. They predominantly amount to people foisting their opinions and proving little other than their willingness to be argumentative, and to no constructive end.
Advice... Try to avoid being counted among the needlessly argumentative, it will better serve your credibility.
 
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With pool equipment i can see why its hard to see why LDs are of any use.
I mean 40-50 years ago they were using 14mm shafts all maple ivorry furruels and still controlling that CB like no tmr!
But then again look at our playing surface. Its 4.5x9 ft. Not that large. So yea i can draw full table with a 14mm. So why would anyone need MORE? I mean its not like golf where new drivers are coming out every year always claiming to hit farther and farther.

As someone said earlier its just how the game has progressed. People wanted to draw easier, people wanted to have more radial consistency, and etc. Where ever there is a demand someone will think of a supply!

LD shafts are great, it means the world of pool is moving forward and not at a standstill. But just because the equipment is moving forward doesnt mean you have to switch or discriminate. I mean Tiger before was using super outdated clubs before and still owned. Like i said before you dont need a 200 dollar shaft to make the cue ball dance around the table.
 
rustysregular10 said:
... so i say theres no cb deflection with a 14mm shaft. ... why are the ld shafts segmented? impo i feel its because the shaft diameter is too tiny. ...
Click to expand...

You have some misunderstandings about this whole subject.

Other things equal, a 14mm shaft will produce more cb deflection than a smaller-diameter shaft, because it has a higher endmass.

Not all LD shafts are segmented. The main factor in creating a LD shaft is low endmass. That can be accomplished with a solid maple shaft as well as with a segmented shaft.

The main purpose of constructing a shaft with pie-shaped segments is to achieve radial consistency. Radial consistency means that the shaft will play and feel the same no matter how it is oriented (i.e., no matter which side is "up").

Dr. Dave has lots of information about this stuff. For example: http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/squirt.html
 
rustysregular10 said:
I would like to start off by saying im not a great pool player, or a know it all. I just want to voice my opinion and see what others think. if youve read any of my other posts, you know that i shoot with a 14mm shaft. its what i like and it feels good. im a center ball player. i feel thats where the best shots come from and easier position. is it prettier than using a ton of english, no way. but it gets the job done. some players cant shoot without english. so i say theres no cb deflection with a 14mm shaft. that being said, my first question is did the pros in the 80s and mostly 90s have ld shafts? no they did not and theyre still some of the best players in the world. why are the ld shafts segmented? impo i feel its because the shaft diameter is too tiny. i know everybody thinks the smaller the tip the more english right? wrong. the smaller the tip the higher percentage of miscues. the segmented wood takes the flex out of the shaft and allows for a much stiffer hit, which i think is great. i am a fan of stiff hitting cues. if you take all the wood segments away, youre left eith basically a meucci. im not saying its a bad thing, its just not my thing. so please post some comments and tell me your opinions on low deflection shafts, why you love em or why you hate em. and if youd like to post some cue pics please free. im a huge fan of cue pics.
Click to expand...

You're off on your assumptions.

Shaft diameter has nothing to do with deflection per se, not in the way you're thinking. They're stiffer because they are thicker, and stiffer means MORE deflection. If you are experiencing less deflection, it's NOT because you are playing with a 14mm shaft. The wood might be different, you might be stroking differently and you just don't know it, it might have a different tip than what you were playing with.

Every player I've talked to who plays with thinner shafts do so because they can be more accurate with where they place the tip when they stroke the cueball, not because they want more english. They are more particular about the specificity of their point of contact than you or I.

Miscues come from poor stroking.

Segmented shafts, IMHO, were built with the idea of creating a "warpless" shaft with a predictable response from the impact of hitting a cueball. The stiffer shaft ameliorates any unpredictability in the shafts deflection.
 
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im not trying to argue with anybody, i was just wanting opinions. im not bashing ld shafts. i used to use one on my old joss. i was simply trying to say i enjoyed the switch from new school back to old school. if someone woulda pmed me and said your full of crap, then i woulda said ok your opinion. im just trying to say what i think about them and get some feedback from others.
 
In my opinion, using a 14mm shaft is equivalent to using a wooden driver in golf. However, if that's what you're comfortable with, then that's what you should use.
 
rustysregular10 said:
my first question is did the pros in the 80s and mostly 90s have ld shafts? no they did not and theyre still some of the best players in the world.
Click to expand...

I will concede that players can play championship pool with high squirt cues, but they sure can't do it without using english - that much I guarantee. Championship play requires a complete mastery of english at every level - and knowing when not to use it is just one of them.

However, I would argue with the premise that the old day players didn't have LD shafts. Conventional shafts can be LD too - there are many factors involved including taper. Many of the pros went though a bunch of shafts and modifications before they found the right ones that felt "just right" and squirt properties were one of the factors - they just didn't know what to call it.

I have cues from the 1920's that aim like Predators. They are stiff with hard wood, a hard tip, a short thin ivory ferrule and a steep taper. Some cue makers, like Rambow, knew how to reduce the tendancies of squirt by using taper and wood properties to their advantage.

Chris
 
TATE said:
I will concede that players can play championship pool with high squirt cues, but they sure can't do it without using english - that much I guarantee. Championship play requires a complete mastery of english at every level - and knowing when not to use it is just one of them.

However, I would argue with the premise that the old day players didn't have LD shafts. Conventional shafts can be LD too - there are many factors involved including taper. Many of the pros went though a bunch of shafts and modifications before they found the right ones that felt "just right" and squirt properties were one of the factors - they just didn't know what to call it.

I have cues from the 1920's that aim like Predators. They are stiff with hard wood, a hard tip, a short thin ivory ferrule and a steep taper. Some cue makers, like Rambow, knew how to reduce the tendancies of squirt by using taper and wood properties to their advantage.

Chris
Click to expand...

Interesting information and great points Chris.
 
theyonger said:
With pool equipment i can see why its hard to see why LDs are of any use.
I mean 40-50 years ago they were using 14mm shafts all maple ivorry furruels and still controlling that CB like no tmr!
Click to expand...

I took up the game seriously in the early '70s and it was unheard of to use 14mm shafts. I talked to people who had been playing for 40 years when I started and they used 12-12 1/2 mm shafts. I played with a 13 1/2 mm myself for a while but eventually dropped to 13mm which was and still is to some, the norm. Very, very few players played with 13 1/2mm at that time. Now I play with 12 1/2mm. Where did you hear of old time players using such large diameter shafts??
 
Pushout said:
I took up the game seriously in the early '70s and it was unheard of to use 14mm shafts. I talked to people who had been playing for 40 years when I started and they used 12-12 1/2 mm shafts. I played with a 13 1/2 mm myself for a while but eventually dropped to 13mm which was and still is to some, the norm. Very, very few players played with 13 1/2mm at that time. Now I play with 12 1/2mm. Where did you hear of old time players using such large diameter shafts??
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Yes, the statement regarding 14mm tips in the past stat is incorrect. The typical cues I encounter from the early 1900's to the 1950's are 12mm with a typical straight taper. Later on it became 13mm. I don't know who started the 13mm standard but I remember Joss and Gina were big on the thicker shafts.

I always figured the old American cues were simple - 1 1/2" butts with half inch tips (12.2mm) with an even taper all the way down - who needed miillimeters anyway?

14mm is a pretty thick tip. If you're just playing center ball tip size doesn't matter anyway.

Chris
 
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Pushout said:
I took up the game seriously in the early '70s and it was unheard of to use 14mm shafts. I talked to people who had been playing for 40 years when I started and they used 12-12 1/2 mm shafts. I played with a 13 1/2 mm myself for a while but eventually dropped to 13mm which was and still is to some, the norm. Very, very few players played with 13 1/2mm at that time. Now I play with 12 1/2mm. Where did you hear of old time players using such large diameter shafts??
Click to expand...

Lol my bad i meant 13mm.
Forgot what standard size was. Playing 11.75 wayyy to long LOL
 
Just like the players have progressed, equipments have and will progress.
If you look at the old players forms, they stand more than get very low like most of the
pros today. Players found out that getting lower on the table gives them better aim.
You should use what works for you but at the same time I don't see very many world champions and great players use 14mm shaft or really thick shafts. I know a lot of pros use LD shaft and they must use them because it works for them. Can they use regular shaft as well? Yes and would do well but they feel LD makes their game better. My friend and pro Mike Davis told me once that he problably wouldn't be where he is if it wasn't for predator shafts. For him LD shaft helped him alot with inside english to improve his game. I always tell my low level league friends that if you are not willing to try certain things in the game you will never learn and you will never improve. I feel this is the same with equipment. You should use what works for you but at the same time if your game isn't improving too much, maybe you should try something different. I believe that the difference between a good player and a bad player is that a good player is not afraid to try different things and learn from failure. Earl said best, the difference between a pro and amateur is english. LD shaft if you learn to use it right it will make your game a little easier. Does everybody like LD? No. But there must be a good reason, other than because its popular, why LD shaft is so popular.
Just my opinion.
 
theyonger said:
With pool equipment i can see why its hard to see why LDs are of any use.
I mean 40-50 years ago they were using 14mm shafts all maple ivorry furruels and still controlling that CB like no tmr!
But then again look at our playing surface. Its 4.5x9 ft. Not that large. So yea i can draw full table with a 14mm. So why would anyone need MORE? I mean its not like golf where new drivers are coming out every year always claiming to hit farther and farther.

As someone said earlier its just how the game has progressed. People wanted to draw easier, people wanted to have more radial consistency, and etc. Where ever there is a demand someone will think of a supply!

LD shafts are great, it means the world of pool is moving forward and not at a standstill. But just because the equipment is moving forward doesnt mean you have to switch or discriminate. I mean Tiger before was using super outdated clubs before and still owned. Like i said before you dont need a 200 dollar shaft to make the cue ball dance around the table.
Click to expand...


When was this???......Since pretty much day one....Tiger has played with "prototype" clubs....You can't even get his clubs on the market....The pros golfers have the nuts when it comes to equipment selection.

Not only do they hit many different set ups to find what is right for them.....they then have multiple clubs with the exact same specs made and they pick the "hot" one...(especially when it comes to drivers)

I would imagine that a cue shaft is much the same way....even if you have 10 shafts of the exact same set up....a "pro" player will be able to identify a "hot" shaft.
 
BRKNRUN said:
When was this???......Since pretty much day one....Tiger has played with "prototype" clubs....You can't even get his clubs on the market....The pros golfers have the nuts when it comes to equipment selection.

Not only do they hit many different set ups to find what is right for them.....they then have multiple clubs with the exact same specs made and they pick the "hot" one...(especially when it comes to drivers)

I would imagine that a cue shaft is much the same way....even if you have 10 shafts of the exact same set up....a "pro" player will be able to identify a "hot" shaft.
Click to expand...

"However, when he did not upgrade his equipment in the following years (insisting upon the use of True Temper Dynamic Gold steel-shafted clubs and smaller steel clubheads that promoted accuracy over distance),[136] many opponents caught up to him. Phil Mickelson even made a joke in 2003 about Woods using "inferior equipment", which did not sit well with Nike, Titleist or Woods.[137][138] During 2004, Woods finally upgraded his driver technology to a larger clubhead and graphite shaft, which, coupled with his clubhead speed, made him one of the Tour's lengthier players off the tee once again."
 
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