"Madison" Bob Griffin Failure to honor his commitments to a client

S

snowmon34

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I started talking to Bob in the middle of May of 2007 on a sneaky pete..Bob quoted me a price of 375.00 for a conversion with 2 shafts.....I had a couple of buddies that were also interested so I asked Bob if there would be a break in price if I was to order 3 cues...His exact reply was 350.00 each under 2 conditions....the 1st condition was that I had to send him half down on the order...that sounded reasonable considering he was giving us 25.00 off per cue, and the 2nd condition was that I didn't tell anybody what I payed for the cues, again a simple request that I had no problem with. Well Bob quoted me a delivery time of 3 months once he received my down payment....I sent Bob a down payment of 525.00 (3 x 350.00 is 1050.00 half of course is 525.00 the balance of 525.00 + shipping would be paid on completion ) via usps on 6/01/07....I sent Bob an email about 5 days later asking if he had received my down payment....Bob replied back that he recieved it and would start on the cues right away....the funds cleared my account on 6/15/07. I figured great we should have 3 sneakies in 3 months....well we stay in contact about once a month from the time of order.....I called Bob on the end of the 3rd month (end of august) for a follow up on the cues.....they are not ready.......so another month goes by, no cues..I was patient knowing that Bob is sick....so I made another call in 30 days ( end of September ) still not ready...so this goes on until November and I ask Bob if he would send me some pics of the cues so I could keep the other partys happy (keep in mind it has been 5 months since the order was placed ) Bob sent me some pics in November of un completed cues, but atleast we knew that they were being worked on..

So this goes on until 1/01/08 I send Bob an email asking for an update on the cues....this is his exact reply and I quote " send the cash the cues are 7 to 10 days from being done. THANKS BOB ". I thought this reply was quite strange considering 3 months late on delivery...anyways I let the other parties know whats going on and that we need to send the balance owed. The other parties had read a thread about Bob and were concerned so they wanted to see the cues completed....Bob flips out because we wanted pics on completetion....he stated that we had trust issues and just rips into me like a child ( I didnt think it was right of him to rip into me beings that he was late on his commitment )...heres the thread that concerned the other parties.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showth...hlight=madison

So I gave it 3 weeks called them back and Darlena Bob's wife said they would send me pics of the cue's on completion....she also stated that they lost the paper work on my deal and if I would email them a copy of the down payment...( again strange business practices)...well I told her I sent them 525.00 on 6/01/07 which was 50% down and the balanced owed was 525.00 + shipping well she wanted a copy of my check because they obviously didnt trust me.... . So I emailed them a receipt copy of my check no problem.... So she states that she needs to talk to Bob and see if he remembers what he quoted me and call me back.....well I didnt get a phone call, but they did send me an email on 2/04/07 telling me they found my quote and the price quoted to me was 375.00 a cue heres the email......

DALE
MY RECORDS INDICATE $375.00 PER CUE AND A $20.00 SHIPPING FEE WHEN YOU TOLD ME BOB SAID $350.00 A CUE WITH 2 SHAFTS I NEW BETTER WE HAVE NEVER SOLD A SNEAKY PETE WITH 2 SHAFTS FOR $350.00 TO ANY ONE NOT EVEN DAVID HUGHES MY RECORDS EVEN SHOW HE QUOTED YOU $375.00 PER CUE WITH 2 SHAFTS AND A $20.00 SHIPPING CHARGE I WAS THE ONE WHO RECEIVED THE DOWN PAYMENT WHEN IT CAME IN AND I TOLD BOB THAT HALF SHOULD HAVE BEEN $562.50 BUT YOU ONLY SENT $525.00 SO THE TOTAL BALANCE DUE IS $620.00 AND SHIPPING IS INCLUDED IN THE REMAINING BALANCE. ALSO DALE I WOULD PREFER A MONEY ORDER.
THANK YOU DARLENA

So at this point I'm not happy....its 2/04/08 its been 7 months since I ordered the cues....Bob rips my ass because I wanted pictures and they are trying to get and extra 75.00 ....at this point I'm done I'm not used to doing business like this...I tell them keep the cues and send me my deposit back...no hard feelings lets just forget the whole deal...They flip out again, but tell me they will send me my deposit in one week...guess what no deposit.....so I make several phone calls and no answer....so I figured I'll email them......I sent them an email on 2/20/08 agreeing to take 2 of the cues at 375.00 a piece + shipping cod.....I have received no reply nor will they answer their phone......I could use some advice in this situation....

Thanks Dale
 
Charlie,

Thanks for the correction. I'm just looking for some sort of resolution..I'm trying to make an effort, but communication has stopped.
 
Sorry to hear that. I bought a couple of cues from Bob a few years ago and had no problem at all.
I had sent him a formal order letter via snail mail, expressing all the details of the cue, agreed upon delivery time, amount down and amount due and when due. I do this with all cues I order. I think way too many people are too casual about ordering cues, considering email and phone conversations sufficient. It should be like any business transaction, done in writing. I recently bought a cue from a cuemaker I consider a friend, I did the exact same procedure friendship or no friendship.
It doesn't excuse Bob's behavior (though we've only one side of the story), but it should have been done more formally, maybe even to the point of his counter-signing on the agreement before you sent the money.
Good-luck straightening this out.
 
A cuemaker not honoring his promises is pretty common sadly. Sorry to hear your having problems.
 
It seems like most cuemakers are one (or two) man shops - and run like that, and not like most proper businesses.

In those cases, a lot of times, good records aren't kept, and everything is dependent on the cuemaker's memory.

On top of that, it seems a lot of these guys are horrible at estimating - I've lost count of the number of tales I've read here about delays in getting their ordered cues. (I'm not talking about unavoidable issues, like health problems causing delays, etc.)

If these guys would simply discipline themselves more on the administrative end - keep better records, etc. - I think they'd be much better off. They'd likely have far fewer disgruntled customers calling them up repeatedly. :)

I've never ordered a custom cue, but I did order a custom mountain bike frame some years ago, from a framemaker that was, like most cuemakers, a one-man shop. The guy made great frames - but he was a horrible communicator (rarely returned emails, never returned calls), and of course there were delays in getting my frame as far as the original estimated date. But in time I got my frame and I still have that bike to this day.

My advise to anyone ordering a custom cue - take whatever target date the cuemaker gives you, and add half again onto it. :)
 
ScottW said:
...

My advise to anyone ordering a custom cue - take whatever target date the cuemaker gives you, and add half again onto it. :)
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Yes, you have to make allowances for "cuemaker time", which is not the same from cuemaker to cuemaker. lol.
 
That just down right sucks man. Another cue maker wannabe added to my list.
Good luck to you Dale. I hope you come to a resolution and please let us know how it turns out.
 
ScottW said:
It seems like most cuemakers are one (or two) man shops - and run like that, and not like most proper businesses.

In those cases, a lot of times, good records aren't kept, and everything is dependent on the cuemaker's memory.

On top of that, it seems a lot of these guys are horrible at estimating - I've lost count of the number of tales I've read here about delays in getting their ordered cues. (I'm not talking about unavoidable issues, like health problems causing delays, etc.)

If these guys would simply discipline themselves more on the administrative end - keep better records, etc. - I think they'd be much better off. They'd likely have far fewer disgruntled customers calling them up repeatedly. :)

I've never ordered a custom cue, but I did order a custom mountain bike frame some years ago, from a framemaker that was, like most cuemakers, a one-man shop. The guy made great frames - but he was a horrible communicator (rarely returned emails, never returned calls), and of course there were delays in getting my frame as far as the original estimated date. But in time I got my frame and I still have that bike to this day.

My advise to anyone ordering a custom cue - take whatever target date the cuemaker gives you, and add half again onto it. :)
Click to expand...

I do understand cuemakers time, these cues were not custom cues they were sneakys with joint rings, and a ring above the buttcap, nothing intricate I knew the 3 month wait may of been a stretch, but 7 months is a little much for a conversion. My concerns started when Bob flipped out because I asked for pictures, and when the price changed.
 
Custom or not, its the same situation - a one-man shop. That was the main gist of my post :)

One of the other issues involved, I think, is that people get a bit emotional over these sorts of transactions. They're ordering cues from these guys because they are passionate about the game - and that passion can interfere with "doing business" sometimes. If things aren't going the customers' way (and I am NOT pointing a finger at you, Dale - I am speaking very generally) - sometimes they get upset and tempers flare, in emails or phone calls - and all that does is potentially cause the cuemaker to act in kind. And then, the situation gets worse.

Another reason why these guys should act more like a business - it would save a lot of that sort of nonsense. :/
 
Remy said:
That just down right sucks man. Another cue maker wannabe added to my list.
Good luck to you Dale. I hope you come to a resolution and please let us know how it turns out.
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Well Bob may have screwed up in this case, the other one in referenced thread, and maybe others, but he is not a "cue maker wannabe" by any means. Maybe a "wannabe business man", but he makes a damn good cue. That said, it may not be a bad idea to avoid him or be very careful with him.
 
brianna187 said:
bump to the top .....................
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HAHAHAHAHAHA, this is what happens when you drag another mans name through the mud. Karma issa *****, aint it Lee? This thread made my day, but in real life I am sorry the guy got stung.
 
to set the record straight

catscradle said:
Well Bob may have screwed up in this case, the other one in referenced thread, and maybe others, but he is not a "cue maker wannabe" by any means. Maybe a "wannabe business man", but he makes a damn good cue. That said, it may not be a bad idea to avoid him or be very careful with him.
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I tried to find a way to keep this deal together, but it makes it tough when the other party will not communicate....Just so you know all verbal communication stopped on his part after the price descrepancy.
 
ScottW said:
Custom or not, its the same situation - a one-man shop. That was the main gist of my post :)

One of the other issues involved, I think, is that people get a bit emotional over these sorts of transactions. They're ordering cues from these guys because they are passionate about the game - and that passion can interfere with "doing business" sometimes. If things aren't going the customers' way (and I am NOT pointing a finger at you, Dale - I am speaking very generally) - sometimes they get upset and tempers flare, in emails or phone calls - and all that does is potentially cause the cuemaker to act in kind. And then, the situation gets worse.

Another reason why these guys should act more like a business - it would save a lot of that sort of nonsense. :/
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Scott I don't feel your pointing the finger at me...this is a forum, and you have the right to voice your opinion.....
 
snowmon34 said:
I tried to find a way to keep this deal together, but it makes it tough when the other party will not communicate....Just so you know all verbal communication stopped on his part after the price descrepancy.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I understood that from your first post. Don't think I'm defending Bob's actions, just saying he makes a good cue. There is no reason for that to occur. I always tell a cuemaker to be honest with me and err on the side of too long an estimate, but more times than not they're late anyway, sometimes with good reason, sometimes not. As a matter of fact the last cue I ordered was quite late, and the cuemaker took off a 100 bucks without me saying a word. There are good guys out there.
 
whether he makes a good cue or not he will never get a call from me the guy doesn't sound like he's very honest. Besides I know plenty of good cuemakers out there so I know who to call.
 
The issue at this point is not whether or not there was anything in writing, or who can finish the cues. The point is, that the cues were never sent, the final price is not the real issue here, and the customer (Dale) just wants his deposit back. No big deal, no hard feelings. There are tons of people that would have paid more to get a Madison Bob sneakie, so the deposit just needs to be returned as if it never happened.

This situation is a little awkward. I happen to know Dale, he's a friend of mine. I own or have owned 6-Madison Bob cues, I 've spoken to Bob a couple of times, and he was a kick to talk to. I even know Dave Hughes as mentioned on Dale's post, and made two different trades this weekend, in two different pool halls with him, and we're working on a third. My opinion is that Bob & Darlene are having a rough time, decided for whatever reason that they don't want to send out these cues for the agreed upon price, they got a little offended at the request to send partial pics, and resorted to bullying tactics to create a fight. They wanted to have a knock-down-drag-out fight, and Dale didn't go there. Now the only thing left to do is send back the deposit, and pretend like this never happened. Who cares about the cost of a few phone calls, cost to send pics, or the time it took to designate 3-sneakies to a certain buyer, that they can sell any day of the week for more money. Although I am not one of the 3-people involved in this deal, I would have taken one of the cues at whatever price, just to help out. It never got to that point, and I am sure that those cues are long gone.

This is all just my opinion, and if there is anything I could do to help out this situation, I would do so. The only reason that Dale ordered these cues, is because he liked the way my Madison Bob cues played.
 
Dale,

Sorry to hear that you are having to deal with issues like these. When I order cues, I always add 25% to the lead time, sometimes more!! Chuck Starkey was the only cue maker that I have dealt with that delivered a cue to me on time. I hope my new Carmeli is a similar experience..

It sounds like you need to re-establish communication and find a resolution. Offer them the additional $25 per cue, have them give you a delivery date and wash your hands of it.

The tricky part will be getting them to communicate. Maybe a third party could intervene??

Anyways, Good luck buddy!!

Russ......
 
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