Magic Ball Rack - Negatives?

J

JMASTERJ

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So I see most pro matches use the Magic Ball Rack. Is there a reason that bars and such still use the horrible triangles, which on a table thats uneven and balls that are beat up, sometimes it takes forever to truly rack "perfectly"?

Anyone here actually carry a Magic Ball rack around with them to bars or pool halls? I dont think even good pool halls have them. Is it that fragile or... I mean they dont cost much. And I would think using the Magic would save time on the racks, kinda no brainer right, place the balls on the holes.

The only downside I see is that I am in the market for a new case as well, 2x2, and I dont see any case that will even hold a 9-ball Magic Rack... I am doubting you can fold them.... so what's the best solution?
 
JMASTERJ said:
So I see most pro matches use the Magic Ball Rack. Is there a reason that bars and such still use the horrible triangles, which on a table thats uneven and balls that are beat up, sometimes it takes forever to truly rack "perfectly"?

Anyone here actually carry a Magic Ball rack around with them to bars or pool halls? I dont think even good pool halls have them. Is it that fragile or... I mean they dont cost much. And I would think using the Magic would save time on the racks, kinda no brainer right, place the balls on the holes.

The only downside I see is that I am in the market for a new case as well, 2x2, and I dont see any case that will even hold a 9-ball Magic Rack... I am doubting you can fold them.... so what's the best solution?
Click to expand...

I carry these, in the provided tube, on my cue case.. best rack in the business. http://www.outsville.com/accu-racks.html :thumbup:
 
We use them at our Tavern for certain leagues, NAPA mainly. If you would leave them out at a Bar for patrons to use, you will go through 100's of them a year, they will be stolen. Renfro makes a template rack that can be rolled up and carried in a tube that will fit in most cases. Brian.
 
Templates

With the magic rack you'll be required to use high quality/super pro aramith balls.<~ you'll never find at bars or most poolrooms.
If you want a rack template you can use at bars you'll want to get the outsville rack.


Rob.M
 
I have one in my case rolled up, I think I used once or twice and it hasn't come out since.
I keep it just in case I run into a terrible triangle at a hall.
 
Magic ball rack

The magic ball rack works well under most situations.

If you're in a bar with off-sized balls, and a dirty table. No template is going to solve your problem



Mark Griffin
 
The single biggest thing is that they are different and people don't like change.

I use to take them with me and use them and people that see them for the 1st time always freak out and have a hard time using them.

However, just about everyone loves them after they adjuse ti them.
 
Yeah, there's negatives to it...


As in.. It has severely reduced the overall skill level needed to win amongst amateurs, so amateurs don't practice certain aspects of their game to be competitive. And it has pretty much destroyed the game of 9 ball as a legitimate test of skill..

Here's how that works... Historically, since you could never get all the balls frozen and in the same spot with a wood/plastic rack, the break was random, so it had to be struck extremely forcefully to have the best chance of getting a shot after the break. This force needed on the break totally randomized the location of the 1 and 2, so this now required better shotmaking, and better 3-cushion type skills to play safe off of a lowest ball that landed in the middle of the top rail with the cue ball at center table.

The magic rack has been absolutely horrible for 9 ball. To a certain extent, it has lessened the skill needed for 10-ball as well, as it wires balls in the side, as well as 4 rails in the corner. For a person with even a moderately good 10-ball break, the magic rack makes 4 balls on the break a not uncommon occurence. All that needs to be done is move the cue ball closer to mid-table the more worn the cloth is.

I might seem to be one of those old stick-in-the-muds who is against progress, but I remember in the mid-to-late 90's when NOBODY played 10-ball, because it wasn't really necessary. Now, here in Germany, when playing lagger's choice matches, the better players will NEVER choose 9 ball, as it narrows the skill gap down WAY too much.

Even on the bar boxes when I was there in Colorado, I think that magic racks have become so ubiquitous that the players don't realize that there are multiple skill levels that get pushed together by the magic rack. It becomes VERY apparent when an intelligent player insists on a wooden rack and what would have normally been a close match becomes an absolute rout.

Short Bus Russ
 
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From a guy that actually plays for about 1 year with a magic rack and not post without any clue...

It absolutely NOT true that worn in balls don't work. The templates are usually made so that the balls actually lean into all of the next balls slightly, so if have used balls the fit shall still be quite good!

Well, actually a have chinese knock off and I got 5 templates of them for 6 euros incl. shipping.
Because sorry Outsville :thumbup: - I'm not shelling out that much money for a bit of plastic and it wasn't readily available in Germany back then. The chinese guys were very nice and quick and easy to order from.

The ones I have are even thinner but of high quality plastic than the usual "name brand" racks (which is good I think).

My racks are universal and work for 7, 8, 9, 10 ball.

The negatives are
- after a break if not all balls have rolled off the template the template itself will affect the rolling of the balls if you hit them. A bit, not huge, but just noticeable and they can go off a millimetre or two.
- but this is bad with the CB and even the slightest amount of spin.
- it takes a bit longer to rack because you need to roll the ball in a certain order and mostly one by one
- my racks actually degrade. I've worn out one until now that didn't really work well anymore. You can see the skid marks on the plastic due to the sliding balls.
- my racks shall be cleaned from time to time (use protecting glass cleaner and rinse off with water). This will help protect against wear a bit.
- my racks shall not be rolled, so I need to carry them in flat form. No problem for me, as I carry my balls in an aluminium case with me anyway.


But these are all things you'll accustom quickly.
And the advantages are huge - a very reproducable break you can train also and the balls spread nicely which is more fun to play with.

We even use with 14.1 and are very accustomed to it. Wouldn't want to play any other way anymore.

Cheers,
M
 

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I really like that Magic Rack. But it has made me a lazy breaker. In certain tournaments I play and in League. We don't use them. So lately I have had friends that I practice with rack normally instead of with a template.
 
+1

ShortBusRuss said:
Yeah, there's negatives to it...


As in.. It has severely reduced the overall skill level needed to win amongst amateurs, so amateurs don't practice certain aspects of their game to be competitive. And it has pretty much destroyed the game of 9 ball as a legitimate test of skill..

Here's how that works... Historically, since you could never get all the balls frozen and in the same spot with a wood/plastic rack, the break was random, so it had to be struck extremely forcefully to have the best chance of getting a shot after the break. This force needed on the break totally randomized the location of the 1 and 2, so this now required better shotmaking, and better 3-cushion type skills to play safe off of a lowest ball that landed in the middle of the top rail with the cue ball at center table.

The magic rack has been absolutely horrible for 9 ball. To a certain extent, it has lessened the skill needed for 10-ball as well, as it wires balls in the side, as well as 4 rails in the corner. For a person with even a moderately good 10-ball break, the magic rack makes 4 balls on the break a not uncommon occurence. All that needs to be done is move the cue ball closer to mid-table the more worn the cloth is.

I might seem to be one of those old stick-in-the-muds who is against progress, but I remember in the mid-to-late 90's when NOBODY played 10-ball, because it wasn't really necessary. Now, here in Germany, when playing lagger's choice matches, the better players will NEVER choose 9 ball, as it narrows the skill gap down WAY too much.

Even on the bar boxes when I was there in Colorado, I think that magic racks have become so ubiquitous that the players don't realize that there are multiple skill levels that get pushed together by the magic rack. It becomes VERY apparent when an intelligent player insists on a wooden rack and what would have normally been a close match becomes an absolute rout.

Short Bus Russ
Click to expand...

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

Magic racks, super fast cloth and rails, and bar tables all make the game much easier and much more boring as well.

I always find it funny how people roll their eyes about how easy nine ball is, and how big the pockets are on some tables, so THEY play 10 BALL, and THEY play on 4.125" pockets. But then they have super slick cloth and rails, use a template rack that makes breaking like cracking an egg, and pattern rack so they can run their 7 remaining balls again and again.

Trust me, play 9 ball with worn cloth on a normal 9 footer and use a wooden rack and the game is plenty tough. No need to go to a 7 footer with a magic rack and then talk about how the game is 'too easy'...
 
I like the mzgic rack for 9 ball, I find the 8 ball rack doesn't work as well though and end up using regular rack instead.
 
Can't really say I agree much with the 9 ball negative thing lowering skill.

So the trade off from rack reading is a consistently tight rack. Provided pattern racking is not allowed as it shouldn't be, then there is no issue. If you allow your opponent to pattern rack, then you deserve to be beat up on.

Templates are used by many professional players that earn a living with pool and play in many tournaments that allow them. If a template is good enough for them to use, then it is certainly good enough for any of you here.
 
Tin Man said:
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

Magic racks, super fast cloth and rails, and bar tables all make the game much easier and much more boring as well.
Click to expand...

The big foot of racking.

So now we have the elitist rackers to go along with the elitist 9 foot players. Combine the 2 and you get what would be a pool god.
 
I was not a fan. Then I reluctantly tried them & the bottom line is you get a consistent, tight rack every time. Somehow I don't see that as a bad thing. If you want to use a wood rack I'm ok with that. I can rack mechanic with the best of them.
 
The theoretical negatives you hear a lot:

• "It makes sinking a ball on the break too easy and reduces overall skill"
• "It 'loads the balls' and causes them to react differently from a normal frozen rack"
• "During the course of the game, a ball might roll over it and roll off"
• "If it's cut wrong or the balls are irregular sizes, it can actually prevent them from freezing."

My humble opinion:

• There's a difference between real difficulty and fake difficulty.
Requiring the player to reasonably improve their skill = real difficulty.
Requiring the player to get lucky = fake difficulty.

When you use a junk wooden triangle that leaves tiny gaps all over, that isn't real difficulty.

If SVB breaks 20 times with a magic rack, and makes a ball 20 times...
then carefully racks with a wooden triangle, and makes a ball 15 times,
does that mean somehow lost some breaking skill between racks 20 and 21?
Of course not. The skill didn't change. The equipment did. It made the outcome more random.

"But there are other skills too like reading the gaps!!!"
Sure, in theory you can memorize how to break for every possible combination of gaps.
Nobody's really doing that and nobody *WANTS* to do that.

Who's checking the rack and thinking "ok, when there's a 1mm gap behind the wing ball,
and a 0.5mm gap on the opposite side, and a paper-thin gap behind the 9, that means I need to
break 18 inches off the left rail."?

Forcing the whole pro population to become "gap-readers" doesn't make pool more entertaining.
It puts people to sleep as they wait for the rack inspectors to scan for gaps and demand reracks.

• "loaded" balls = made-up marketing science. It's been proven time and again
that anything you can do with a magic rack, you can do without one.

• It might roll a ball off = 98% of the time you can lift it off the table.
The few time you can't can be solved with ball markers or a 2nd set of to lift the offending balls.

• "Magic Slug" - legit complaint. But if you get a shitty magic rack, you can toss it and use another.
If the balls are weirdly sized and cannot freeze, swap them around until they do.
If that's not acceptable, then use an accu-rack where there's some "play" in where the balls sit.
 
A lot of players like a lot of different things, but I've yet to see one who prefers slug racks!

Magic Racks works well with newer ball sets and it's my favorite template. As the balls get beat up and deformed, it no longer does the job. For that reason, when I used to play matches in a pool room, I would bring my own Centennial set and a magic rack. Most players prefer decent balls but some have strong opinions on using templates. In that case, I brought my own quality triangle rack too. Nobody ever said "let's use the pool room stuff"!
 
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If I'm in the minority that's fine, I can only speak for myself. But for me, I can't watch 9 ball played with a magic rack, nor bar table 10 ball played with a magic rack. I love watching pool matches, but I'd rather re-watch something off my accu-stats shelf then watch 5+ rack 7 ball runs with all the balls spread.

In the old days the balls wouldn't always break well, there were clusters to deal with, balls tying up around the spot, foot or side rails. Breaking and running a rack was an accomplishment, several in a roll was a challenge.

The first time I played 9 foot 9 ball with a magic rack I ran 5 racks my first inning. Then I put it away and didn't use it again. It seemed silly.

I know a lot of top players agree. The cut break and template rack aren't what most want. I went to the US Open a few years ago and this is where I first learned the cut break. I ran 5 on Mike Davis my second set, although he did it back to me and beat me 11-10. Then I played Boyes on the B side and ran 3 off the lag and ended up winning that set. I heard him talking the next day to his pal about how stupid it was to fly overseas to play a tournament where a nobody could break in two balls every time and run 7 open balls a few times and send him home. I agree. Earl is quite vocal on this subject.

Now, big table 10 ball with a magic rack is still ok with me. Yes, the balls go at the side pockets, I would still prefer a wooden rack. But the break has to be executed well and there is still enough game left to make it a contest. But go to 9 ball or a bar table and it becomes silly.

Yes, the top players play with this equipment, because they have to play with what they're given. Ask around though and I think you'll find many that would prefer 9 foot 10 ball or rules that make the game more challenging in general.

You're welcome to disagree and I respect that. That's what's nice about pool, we can all play and watch what we enjoy.
 
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