Magic Ball Rack - Negatives?
- Thread starter JMASTERJ
- Start date
This is a fantastic post. I like the my humble opinion part about real difficulty a lot. Very well said!
KMRUNOUT
I am an advocate of using an Accu-Rack.
From the people I've played with, the only ones that I've come across that prefer using a regular rack fall into one of two categories:
A. A rack rigger
B. They can't keep up in rack running
The guy I usually bang around with on Sundays falls into both categories. We play winner racks and he always uses the regular rack, takes forever to rack, and then wires the wing ball to fly in the corner. I have to call him out several times every time we play. I don't care that he makes balls on the break, I just don't like seeing people trying to cheat.
U dont keep it.
Most hang t outside their case, most cases have hooks or zip straps .
If i accidentally ruin it, i get a new one, i dont lose any sleep, its dirt cheap. I bought mine off ebay , pack of 10 for 5 bucks wtf.
Template racks wear out from use and don't take abuse well. Last year I helped run a local tournament for almost a year. We used template racks exclusively. After the first month, we started to replace racks at rate of 1 per week due to loss, theft, and torn. This is a 16 person tournament, so YMMV.
That ^, for a Magic Rack you want a decent set of balls, pretty much no bars will have that.
And I second the Outsville rack as being better for mis-matched sets or older sets.
I doubt those racks will last more than a week at a bar or a pool hall without being ripped, bent, stolen or just confuse people every time they went to use it.
Best racks
Hey guys, What is the best rack made? Is it the Delta Elite?
I have what I believe is a very well built wooden rack and Magic racks and I am going to order rack templates from Outsville. But, I have been thinking about the Delta Elite rack.
I want to use different racks as I work on improving my sorry break shot.
Any way, I would appreciate some opinions.
Hey guys, What is the best rack made? Is it the Delta Elite?
I have what I believe is a very well built wooden rack and Magic racks and I am going to order rack templates from Outsville. But, I have been thinking about the Delta Elite rack.
I want to use different racks as I work on improving my sorry break shot.
Any way, I would appreciate some opinions.
One thing that I don't like about the Outsville rack, is that if you keep it in the round case, it tends to keep that bent shape for a while while you play. I think it's better to carry it flat like the Magic Rack.
Maybe in one of those cardboard mailers or something.
After reading the responses to my actual negatives post, I have come to the conclusion that this forum is simply a reflection of American society at large, while just wants to win without putting in real work.
I'll say this as bluntly as possible. If you guys don't think that the magic rack equalizes play between unequal players.... Go find that old(ish)-timer that still shoots pretty sporty, and wins his share, but doesn't dominate a certain level of player in the magic rack tournaments... Basically, is on an even level with them.. Wins the same amount he loses agains thtta level of player..
NOW. Put them on a table with fairly worn cloth, and take away the magic rack. Doesn't matter who racks.. It can be self-rack, or rack for opponent.
Either way, the old-timer is gonna shoot their nuts out the back of their throat.
I've seen the effect of the magic rack in Colorado. People don't kick well. They are not very adept at playing safe off a ball in the middle of the top rail. They simply don't have to deal with kicking or the long safes, because a VAST majority of racks are run on the first or second shot after the break. There is no "play" whatsoever. Fast cloth and magic racks have made 9 ball TONS easier. These players often play very bad patterns and still get out because the cloth is so fast.
If you really don't believe that is true, I will play a very large portion of the members of the board some 9 ball with a wood/plastic rack on a Valley with worn cloth. Under those conditions, you guys are gonna find that 9 ball is not nearly the super-easy game that magic racks and Simonis have fooled you into thinking it is.
I am a much better player than I let on in the forum, and I will say, unequivocably... The magic rack and fast cloth adds 2-3 games to the score of a lesser player in a race to 7. It's THAT dramatic.
But, I get it.. You guys want to win, and a magic rack is lots easier than actually practicing. I'd be interested to see the high runs in various games of the players in this thread. It'd be something of a measure as to whether you peeps have any clue whatsoever.
Oh, and here's a tip. There's not NEARLY as many "rack mechanics" out there as a lot of players like to insinuate. It's just an excuse for getting beat by someone better than you. Yeah, they exist at the pro level, but most amateurs would be 10X better served to practice straight in table length draw shots than to worrry about their opponents "fixing" the rack in their favor. At the amateur level, shooting straight and playing smart is enough to beat 90% of the players they play, and the other guy can rig the rack all they want, it won't matter.
Short Bus Russ
I'll say this as bluntly as possible. If you guys don't think that the magic rack equalizes play between unequal players.... Go find that old(ish)-timer that still shoots pretty sporty, and wins his share, but doesn't dominate a certain level of player in the magic rack tournaments... Basically, is on an even level with them.. Wins the same amount he loses agains thtta level of player..
NOW. Put them on a table with fairly worn cloth, and take away the magic rack. Doesn't matter who racks.. It can be self-rack, or rack for opponent.
Either way, the old-timer is gonna shoot their nuts out the back of their throat.
I've seen the effect of the magic rack in Colorado. People don't kick well. They are not very adept at playing safe off a ball in the middle of the top rail. They simply don't have to deal with kicking or the long safes, because a VAST majority of racks are run on the first or second shot after the break. There is no "play" whatsoever. Fast cloth and magic racks have made 9 ball TONS easier. These players often play very bad patterns and still get out because the cloth is so fast.
If you really don't believe that is true, I will play a very large portion of the members of the board some 9 ball with a wood/plastic rack on a Valley with worn cloth. Under those conditions, you guys are gonna find that 9 ball is not nearly the super-easy game that magic racks and Simonis have fooled you into thinking it is.
I am a much better player than I let on in the forum, and I will say, unequivocably... The magic rack and fast cloth adds 2-3 games to the score of a lesser player in a race to 7. It's THAT dramatic.
But, I get it.. You guys want to win, and a magic rack is lots easier than actually practicing. I'd be interested to see the high runs in various games of the players in this thread. It'd be something of a measure as to whether you peeps have any clue whatsoever.
Oh, and here's a tip. There's not NEARLY as many "rack mechanics" out there as a lot of players like to insinuate. It's just an excuse for getting beat by someone better than you. Yeah, they exist at the pro level, but most amateurs would be 10X better served to practice straight in table length draw shots than to worrry about their opponents "fixing" the rack in their favor. At the amateur level, shooting straight and playing smart is enough to beat 90% of the players they play, and the other guy can rig the rack all they want, it won't matter.
Short Bus Russ
Agreed again. Good players want as much adversity between the break and the money ball as possible.
My favorite pool match was Varner vs Sigel in the 1990 US Open semi's. The corner ball went 21 times in a row in a race to 11. All 21 games. Buddy Hall and Grady were doing commentary and they both agreed it was terrible for the game, and that there should be doubt about whether a ball would be made on the break. It happened even back then with new cloth, but it was the exception. To make it the rule is just silly.
My favorite pool match was Varner vs Sigel in the 1990 US Open semi's. The corner ball went 21 times in a row in a race to 11. All 21 games. Buddy Hall and Grady were doing commentary and they both agreed it was terrible for the game, and that there should be doubt about whether a ball would be made on the break. It happened even back then with new cloth, but it was the exception. To make it the rule is just silly.
I get what you all are saying, but the cat's out of the bag on this one. In the pro game, triangles and their inevitable imperfections lead to rack mechanics and arguments. We're never going back to the days when professional pool players blithely accept any old rack when they are breaking.
If the game becomes too easy then there are other solutions that don't involve taking away a technology that provides for a tight rack - which after all is something that has been (and should be) strived for.
Of course this only affects professional tournament and other very high-level play. Like a Pro V1 going 10% farther than a balata ball yet handicaps staying absolutely flat, the rack used has little to no impact on amateurs/league players who can take many innings to finish a 9-ball game.
If the game becomes too easy then there are other solutions that don't involve taking away a technology that provides for a tight rack - which after all is something that has been (and should be) strived for.
Of course this only affects professional tournament and other very high-level play. Like a Pro V1 going 10% farther than a balata ball yet handicaps staying absolutely flat, the rack used has little to no impact on amateurs/league players who can take many innings to finish a 9-ball game.
Biggest negative with the templates, imo: they don't replicate real world conditions.
Practice with wood. if you get to a game with a template, then good times will follow. Not true the other way 'round.
Practice with wood. if you get to a game with a template, then good times will follow. Not true the other way 'round.
I'll happily go back to old-school conditions...I prefer them.
Use the regular rack.
No jump cues
Slow cloth
Two-foul pushout
Cue ball behind the line on scratches
Longer races or sets
The game has been dumbed down.
Pool today is boring. It isn't pool. They are turning it into pachinko and hop scotch or something.
Many people love to see consecutive break-and-runs. I am not one of them. I had rather see more strategy/safes utilized than a player breaking and running every rack he gets to break.
Here is an example. Great shooting, but I found it boring to watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAYDqD25GgU Spoiler alert...both players nearly shoot 1000 combined.
Could this have happened without the Magic Rack? Who knows.
To the OP and FWIW, I have watched many of the Youtube videos of last years U.S. Open 8 and 10-ball matches. I don't have enough fingers on my hands to count the times the Magic Rack changed the direction of a slow moving ball, several times putting a ball right up against another ball creating a cluster when without the rack it would not have. This can absolutely alter the course of a match, especially if it happens at hill-hill.
This is how I believe racking should be done in a professional tournament: Have a referee or designated racker (one that has the skills to do so) rack the balls with say a Delta-13 or comparable rack. Let the breaker inspect that rack only and decide if he/she wants to break that rack or get another rack. If he/she choose to get a re-rack...no inspecting the second rack and he/she must break that rack, like it or not. Puts an end to all this Dechaine-esque bullsh*t and moves the tournament along.
Something's gotta be done. All this rack war B.S. is bad for the game. It's starting to resemble W.W.E. wrestling. :sorry: Just MHO.
Maniac
Here is an example. Great shooting, but I found it boring to watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAYDqD25GgU Spoiler alert...both players nearly shoot 1000 combined.
Could this have happened without the Magic Rack? Who knows.
To the OP and FWIW, I have watched many of the Youtube videos of last years U.S. Open 8 and 10-ball matches. I don't have enough fingers on my hands to count the times the Magic Rack changed the direction of a slow moving ball, several times putting a ball right up against another ball creating a cluster when without the rack it would not have. This can absolutely alter the course of a match, especially if it happens at hill-hill.
This is how I believe racking should be done in a professional tournament: Have a referee or designated racker (one that has the skills to do so) rack the balls with say a Delta-13 or comparable rack. Let the breaker inspect that rack only and decide if he/she wants to break that rack or get another rack. If he/she choose to get a re-rack...no inspecting the second rack and he/she must break that rack, like it or not. Puts an end to all this Dechaine-esque bullsh*t and moves the tournament along.
Something's gotta be done. All this rack war B.S. is bad for the game. It's starting to resemble W.W.E. wrestling. :sorry: Just MHO.
Maniac
This is not right. Virtually all of the better tournaments we play here on the West Coast use the Magic Rack or the Turtle Rack, so those are our real world conditions. The tables here are typically tighter than what I've seen of East Coast tables, so break and runs are not exactly common even with those racks.
Even so, using a template does not significantly increase the breaker's winning percentage. Let's look at the pro break statistics in the US Open which used a template:
2016 US Open Overall Breaking results: The breaker made at least one ball (and did not break illegally or foul) 57% of the time (240 of 422), won 54% of the games (227 of 422), and broke and ran 23% of the games (96 of 422).
So even though the breaker had 23% break and runs, the breaker only won 54% of the games. Why? Dry breaks (43% were dry), not getting a shot on the one, break fouls, and not getting the rest of the time.
Templates combined with decent balls help get rid of or even eliminate slug racks, simple as that. I do think it's also good to practice with a triangle, to get the hang of racking tight with one.
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You got to love the ones who view their perception of something as fact.
I love the example given. The magic rack "magically" only helps the lesser player to equal the old timer. Thus lowering his perceived skill while raising theirs. So having a rack as it should be (tight and frozen) only assist players of a lesser skill. Explain that again, I must of missed that day of pool school.
My answer to that is.... there are a zillion possible ways the table is going to end up with or without it. Deal with what is given to you. How it got that way is irrelevant and if anyone one here thinks they can control a break to such a fine level that they are going to place 9, 10 or 15 balls all within a few millimeters, or even inches, of where they want, they are nuts. It ain't going to happen at any level.
The effect on the rack is no different then if chalk dust or felt did the same thing so stop the whining, take the table as it lies and do the best you can with what you have been given.
It actually cracks me up how often "godly players" here whine about little things that their greatness should be able to overcome with ease.