Magic Rack and Joshua Filler's 7-pack

[JAM]

Though today I am a railbird, I used to play, competing on the leagues and in local tournaments., I also went on the road a few years in the '80s with a road player. As such, I really do understand all games of pocket billiards.

I made a thread on my Facebook page about Joshua Filler's 7-pack, and much to my surprise, my other half posted on my thread he thought the Magic Rack shouldn't be allowed. I asked him privately why. Well, I thought about it. Doesn't the Magic Rack create the perfect rack with no cracks? Doesn't a pool player have to break perfectly each time in order for the wing ball to fly in the side? In comparison, when pins are racked in a bowling alley, doesn't the bowler have to hit them perfeclty in order to make a strike?

Some pros today practice their breaks. I saw Earl Strickland do it over and over again at many tournaments. Shane Van Boening is also a break mechanic. The break, at least in my eyes today, is just as important as having the ability to run out. Without a good break, even if you can run out, you will never be able to dominate. The break is THAT important.

In my eyes, the only way the Magic rack cannot be perfect is if the placement is off a few millimeters on the spot. By my own admission, I've never played pool with a Magic Rack and would enjoy hearing thoughts from others who have.

 

[Black-Balled]

What was not a Magic Rack? I'm not sure I follow. Are you sayign the match between Joshua Filler and Shane Van Boening in the 2025 Derby City Classic did not use a Magic Rack?

I referenced Joe Tucker's DVDs because of the topic of "rack manipulation," which was—and still is—rampant.

NOBODY SAID THAT JOSHUA FILLER WAS MANIPULATING THE RACK AGAINST SHANE VAN BOENING.


THE TOPIC OF RACK MANIPULATION, HOWEVER, WAS MENTIONED BECAUSE IT IS WELL KNOWN THAT IT HAPPENS IN THE POOL WORLD.

The Magic Rack was not invented yet at the time when Joe Tucker wrote his book.

I believe joes 'secrets' are based on the presumption a perfect rack is the start point and templates provide the perfect rack.

Deviations from perfection are the secrets and neither manipulation nor lack thereof are necessary to utilize the info in the book. One just has to know how what he sees will react.

 

[iusedtoberich]

"magic rack" is like q-tips or kleenex. Its become the generic name for all templete racks because it was the first and/or most popular.

The full name is:

"Magic Ball Rack". It came from Japan, originally. CSI became the USA distributor a few years into its production. It's the best one of the templates, imo. It's made of a thin plastic film, and has diamond shaped cutouts. The cutouts being diamond shaped actually act as tiny ramps, that cause the balls to roll down the ramps. The ramps are oriented in such a way that the downhill direction makes the balls all lean into each other. This is what makes the rack tight with ease.

The template rack used at the DCC was the Outsville rack. It is made of more of a cloth type material. It also has diamond shaped ramps, but they are oriented in different directions than the Magic Ball Rack. *correction, tear drop shaped cutouts on this rack, but they are effectively still ramps.

There are also no-name ebay/amazon racks that are plastic film based.

There are also paper based template racks. (The first few years of the Magic Ball Rack, it was paper based)

Most of these racks are die cut, which requires a tool to be made, but then is very cheap to stamp out thousands.

The Outsville rack is laser cut. That allows him to customize each one more easily, with logos, different shapes, etc. Outsville is actually the company of our fellow member Renfro.

 

[Badpenguin]

But I digress. I truly do not think Molina Mike was incinuating there was hanky panky going on. He was, however, saying how much rack manipulation happens and is an ongoing problem.

He stated that he was referring to regional tournaments. And I agree, it is rampant and always has been.

 

[u12armresl]

Except it ISN'T happening.

I'm still waiting to see the first set run out not the 10,000th.

Arguably the best 9 baller ever ran a 7 pack that's it, not the set, a 7 pack. Where are all the other 7 packs, 8 packs and 9 packs? They don't exist.

When Earl ran his 11 or whatever it was with a regular rack did everybody lose their mind and say regular racks shouldn't be allowed? NO

Show me all the people running 7 packs with the template - it's been used for a lot of years and yet nobody is doing it.

There is that little Bergman run of 17 or 21 with the magic rack, so there's that.

 

[Poolmanis]

Josh is very good with this easier break rules break. I remember Pia claimed one stream she was commentating that Josh break and run 25 racks on practice before he won 9-ball world champs. Controlling the one ball perfectly..

 

[Poolmanis]

There is that little Bergman run of 17 or 21 with the magic rack, so there's that.

Kid tables with soft breaking and pattern racking don't count..

 

[Texas Carom Club]

There is that little Bergman run of 17 or 21 with the magic rack, so there's that.

if the players tried, and wanted to, they could no doubt
shaw is another example

 

[ShortBusRuss]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but the incentive to running out the set is that there's no way on earth any player is the favorite to break and run nine racks in a row to send it to a one rack playoff. Can it happen? Of course. But based on the simple fact that there's been well over 10,000 nine ball matches played in The Derby over the years and it's never happened, I'd have to say the chances of it happening are well below 50% for any player.

Having said that, I do agree that playing safe is usually the right choice when facing an iffy shot. But there are a lot of factors that go into that decision. I mean, if I'm up 8-0 I'm going for the shot because I like my odds of getting one game before my opponent can get nine.

The point you're missing is, as good and consistent as Diamonds play, to run out a set, requires one to come with one or two "hero" shots during the various runs, that the pros are certainly capable of when playing well, but the shot may be 50%, and due to the unique table layout, there is a 75% safety option. The reason that you don't see them running out sets is because they "always" play the highest percentage shot, and are gonna choose a much higher percentage safe, rather than risking a lower percentage shot.

The cool thing here is... There is a solution to figuring out just how big of packages they could run, if the "higher percentage" could be manipulated to be the shot, versus the safety. Some rich dude needs to put up a $100,000 bounty to run a set completely out on film during DCC 9 Ball. Make the money worth more than winning multiple events, and you will change how the top pros approach the big packages. It becomes worth more to them to go for the shot when already on a big package, than to play the higher percentage safe. I personally don't have that kind of money laying around... Fatboy? Wanna put your name on something unique? A prize that "probably" doesn't get claimed any time soon, but if it does, your name gets attached to pool history, and if the opposing pro puts up a big package with their return inning... *Chef's Kiss*

 

[The_JV]

No, this debate has nothing to do with racking, but instead the wider break box, which taken in conjunction with the looser pockets, made conditions easy for those like Josh and Shane that have grown accustomed to the Matchroom break box and tighter pockets.

I can always count on you Stu...

The DCC is an Open event, spec'd toward amateurs and poached by pros.

 

[skogstokig]

Why change anything?

several reasons. the main reason i suspect would be that sticking with the old break box can effect pro player turnout. this year was already weak with no taiwanese, poles, austrians, spanish players and only a few pinoys, and i don't think not changing helps the cause for next year. the pros want the narrow break box, just like they want double elimination. chances to make the trip worthwhile.

another reason is that many viewers are too intelligent to be stimulated by the repetitive layouts. on that note, what's your problem with the narrower break box? too much variance, unpredictability? overstimulation?

 

[Jimmy_Betmore]

The point you're missing is, as good and consistent as Diamonds play, to run out a set, requires one to come with one or two "hero" shots during the various runs, that the pros are certainly capable of when playing well, but the shot may be 50%, and due to the unique table layout, there is a 75% safety option. The reason that you don't see them running out sets is because they "always" play the highest percentage shot, and are gonna choose a much higher percentage safe, rather than risking a lower percentage shot.

The cool thing here is... There is a solution to figuring out just how big of packages they could run, if the "higher percentage" could be manipulated to be the shot, versus the safety. Some rich dude needs to put up a $100,000 bounty to run a set completely out on film during DCC 9 Ball. Make the money worth more than winning multiple events, and you will change how the top pros approach the big packages. It becomes worth more to them to go for the shot when already on a big package, than to play the higher percentage safe. I personally don't have that kind of money laying around... Fatboy? Wanna put your name on something unique? A prize that "probably" doesn't get claimed any time soon, but if it does, your name gets attached to pool history, and if the opposing pro puts up a big package with their return inning... *Chef's Kiss*

I'm picking up what you're putting down. I still think it's more nuanced than that but I see what you're saying. And the set bounty would be awesome.

And I've always said that if I ever became ridiculously wealthy I'd run tournaments and give out way better prize money than what's currently available. I know I'd take a loss. But I don't have any kids and I can't take it with me, so why not invest it in the game I love. Anyway, now it makes me wonder what kind of price you could set at someplace like SBE where a player pays X amount for a chance to run, let's say, a ten pack and win Y amount. How much action do you think one would get for 100-1 odds? And how long before somebody beats it?

 

[Black-Balled]

Kid tables with soft breaking and pattern racking don't count..

Don't go breaking my heart.

 

[decent dennis]

What was not a Magic Rack? I'm not sure I follow. Are you sayign the match between Joshua Filler and Shane Van Boening in the 2025 Derby City Classic did not use a Magic Rack?

I referenced Joe Tucker's DVDs because of the topic of "rack manipulation," which was—and still is—rampant.

NOBODY SAID THAT JOSHUA FILLER WAS MANIPULATING THE RACK AGAINST SHANE VAN BOENING.


THE TOPIC OF RACK MANIPULATION, HOWEVER, WAS MENTIONED BECAUSE IT IS WELL KNOWN THAT IT HAPPENS IN THE POOL WORLD.

The Magic Rack was not invented yet at the time when Joe Tucker wrote his book.

Yes. In the match between Filler and Shane and all others it was outsville templates.

 

[jasonlaus]

several reasons. the main reason i suspect would be that sticking with the old break box can effect pro player turnout. this year was already weak with no taiwanese, poles, austrians, spanish players and only a few pinoys, and i don't think not changing helps the cause for next year. the pros want the narrow break box, just like they want double elimination. chances to make the trip worthwhile.

another reason is that many viewers are too intelligent to be stimulated by the repetitive layouts. on that note, what's your problem with the narrower break box? too much variance, unpredictability? overstimulation?

Again, where were all the repetitive racks?

You have no idea what you are talking about do you(in my Javier Bardeem voice)

 

[JAM]

Yes. In the match between Filler and Shane and all others it was outsville templates.

Would you please be so kind as to explain the difference between an Outsville rack and a Magic rack? I waa unable to locate online a 2025 Derby City Classic Outsville rack, but the one below in purple is an Outsville rack. Below that is a Magic rack. Is there a difference in how to rack the balls using these two racks? I am just curious.

 

[jasonlaus]

There is that little Bergman run of 17 or 21 with the magic rack, so there's that.

Lol.

 

[jasonlaus]

if the players tried, and wanted to, they could no doubt
shaw is another example

Yeah, because they're not trying currently. If only they practiced, traveled all over the world and their livelihood depended on it

It's clear, you're not acting

 

[jasonlaus]

Would you please be so kind as to explain the difference between an Outsville rack and a Magic rack? I wsa unable to locate online a 2025 Derby City Classic O utsville rack, but the one below in purple is an Outsville rack. Below that is a Magic rack. Is there a difference in how to rack the balls using these two racks? I am just curious.


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There is a difference and it was explained in one of these threads about Filler. I'm not sure which one though. Sorry

 

[maha]

100 to 0ne odds??? you could lay 1000 to one and be robbing anyone.
and the general pro circuit where they run out about 30 percent of the time its over 50,000 to one against running a ten pack.

the reason they are running as much as they do is the break shot is gaffed so its too easy to make a ball and have easy run outs.

no or tiny break box from the spot. and all balls on the break get spotted. this way they have to run 9 balls and not 7 or 8 all open.

 

[sudocrushms]

Would you please be so kind as to explain the difference between an Outsville rack and a Magic rack? I waa unable to locate online a 2025 Derby City Classic Outsville rack, but the one below in purple is an Outsville rack. Below that is a Magic rack. Is there a difference in how to rack the balls using these two racks? I am just curious.


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I'm not sure why they made the template itself so broad for the Outsville and Magic racks.

I really like the Turtle Rack II. Feels softer and less plasticky than other templates I've used (many of those crease/curl really easily).
This one probably has a few hundred 9/10-ball games on it and still works perfectly.