Making the wingball everytime

Not directed at anyone in particular, but if you really have to resort to racking gaps and reading the rack to win, then maybe you should work on becoming better at the game.

If you were to do that then you should be able to win no matter where the balls end up after a break.
 
Reading gaps is as much a skill as reading combos or patterns. Maybe more need joes book.

How is reading gaps in 9 ball racks and finding dead balls in straight pool different? Do you tell players if they played better they wouldnt need dead balls?
 
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Skippy27 said:
Not directed at anyone in particular, but if you really have to resort to racking gaps and reading the rack to win, then maybe you should work on becoming better at the game.

If you were to do that then you should be able to win no matter where the balls end up after a break.
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I think you (and others) are missing the point... If the rack is completely tight, the wing ball should go every time.. Unfortunately, it is nearly impossible to avoid having gaps in the rack. Even with a new set of balls, and a decent triangle rack, it is very difficult to avoid having gaps throughout the rack. The difference is in knowing which gaps may be allowed (and how to adjust for them), and still make the wing ball. I don't think that anyone is intentionally leaving gaps, to aid them in making the wing ball.. There is no reason to do so.

People who know how to read the rack have a definite advantage over those who don't. It has nothing to do with cheating.. If you want to be the best player that you can be, you need to be a student of the game. As such, you should familiarize yourself with all aspects of the game. The rack is a very important aspect of the game. Funny that no one calls a straight pool player a cheater, for inspecting the rack for dead balls. Why should 9 ball be any different?
 
couldnthinkof01 said:
Reading gaps is as much a skill as reading combos or patterns. Maybe more need joes book.

How is reading gaps in 9 ball racks and finding dead balls in straight pool different? Do you tell players if they played better they wouldnt need dead balls?
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I guess I shouldn't take so long to write my posts.. You beat me to it.
 
couldnthinkof01 said:
Reading gaps is as much a skill as reading combos or patterns. Maybe more need joes book.

How is reading gaps in 9 ball racks and finding dead balls in straight pool different? Do you tell players if they played better they wouldnt need dead balls?
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Only cheaters read the gap between balls in a combo. If you need some book that tells you how to read a combo to guarantee that the ball goes, you're a cheater. When I hit a combo, I just smack 'em and let 'em go where they want.
 
bradsh98 said:
Then you would be the one cheating...

If you give a good rack, the wing ball goes every time.. Knowing what gaps can be allowed, and still make the wing ball, is not cheating, despite what you think. You are 100% wrong in this argument.
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No, you are wrong. There are ways to give a straight rack with all balls frozen & the wing ball won't go the majority of the time. So how is that cheating exactly?

I played an A+ person on the Predator tour many times & he could never fathom why his powerful break failed the make the wing ball the majority of the time. I gave him full access to inspect the rack & he had no problems with any of them.
 
BRussell said:
Only cheaters read the gap between balls in a combo. If you need some book that tells you how to read a combo to guarantee that the ball goes, you're a cheater. When I hit a combo, I just smack 'em and let 'em go where they want.
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When you are shooting combos, I don't let you touch the balls and get them into a position that may be favorable to you. You can rack balls to rig them and your opponent may be none the wiser or even let you get away with it, but try picking up the balls for a combo and keep resetting them and see what happens.
 
If you can rack the balls on any table anytime(no templates) and have no gaps I call b.s.

Assuming that there will most always be a gap or two unintentionally and you read such gaps to your advantage your cheating, gtfo.
 
HawaiianEye said:
When you are shooting combos, I don't let you touch the balls and get them into a position that may be favorable to you. You can rack balls to rig them and your opponent may be none the wiser or even let you get away with it, but try picking up the balls for a combo and keep resetting them and see what happens.
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Exactly. Reading the rack is fine. Manipulating the balls setting up the rack like a trick shot to go on the break is not OK. It is the same as putting your hands on a combo and moving it to be dead.
 
BRussell said:
So you should be able to quote rules that say it's against the rules to try to get a tight rack and to understand how to make the wing ball go in the corner.
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That is not what is being rationalized here and you know it. If you need a rule then use the sportsmanship rule. Do you really need a rule that says cheating is not allowed? Is there a rule in any game that says no cheating? There certainly isn't one that says cheating is OK.
 
HawaiianEye said:
When you are shooting combos, I don't let you touch the balls and get them into a position that may be favorable to you. You can rack balls to rig them and your opponent may be none the wiser or even let you get away with it, but try picking up the balls for a combo and keep resetting them and see what happens.
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ChopStick said:
That is not what is being rationalized here and you know it. If you need a rule then use the sportsmanship rule. Do you really need a rule that says cheating is not allowed? Is there a rule in any game that says no cheating? There certainly isn't one that says cheating is OK.
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The original poster did what probably 90% of top pool players do: First, he tried to freeze the balls in the rack. That's what all rules, including world 9-ball rules, say you're supposed to do. Second he examined the rack to try to figure out the best way to break. There is no rule against either examining the rack or understanding how freezes and gaps affect the break. Following rules + knowledge does not equal cheating.
 
Really don't like these discussions but might be able help a little.

The book was an accident. I submitted a rather lengthy article to a magazine explaining all I knew about 9 Ball racks in an effort to expose the flaws, how big of a factor they can play in a match and why we should move on to 10B. That was almost 20 yrs ago lol Publisher called me back and asked "Joe you sure you want to give all this information away for free? You might be able to make a book on the topic?" So I went for it. some could say I caved or sold out but I don't care, I know what I set out to do and how it all came to be.

What the original poster did is exactly what I would do and what I tell every player that asks "What do you do Joe?" I rack until I have not slugged myself on one or both sides and never deliberately create spaces. You're not going to freeze them all and staying there until you don't slug yourself and reading the rack to determine which spot on the table you're going to break from is not cheating imo.

If you don't know how to read a rack of 9B then you should probably stay out of conversations like this, its the ole case of you don't know what you don't know. Lot of knowledgeable posters in here that do know and I appreciate them trying to help others understand as I really don't have it in me after 20yrs of these discussions, me tired.

Lots of good solutions coming about so its less and less of a problem.
Haven't had a racking argument in 3 years of American Rotation and that my friends, was not dumb luck :wink:
 
Hi Joe,

I see nothing wrong with knowledge. I bought "Racking Secrets", the DVD versions, the "Great Break Shot Book" that included a chapter by you.

The greatest display of rack mechanic-ry on film was the TAR match between Donny Mills and SVB. What Donny was able to do in terms of making the wing ball and controlling the layout was nearly unbelievable. Being that the format of the match was rack-your-own, Shane was entitled to do exactly the same but he couldn't do it... Not even in a race to 100.
 
I don't think anyone can assume he was cheating or intentionally racking any certain way. I prefer rack your own when gambling and I have no problem with someone inspecting my rack because I do what I must to get it as tight as possible. I've had more than a couple of times where I started to hit a gear and my opponent left gaps in the front three balls so I couldn't hit with speed and control the break.

I will rack the same for someone else as I will for myself which is why some people I play with will request even when we play rack your own, that I rack for them also. You cannot always get every ball frozen with a triangle due to cloth/ball wear but if they are frozen front to back at least most of the power gets transferred into the rack directly rather than laterally. There's more than one pocket you can make a ball in on the break.
 
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