Making the wingball everytime

[KMRUNOUT]

"I was just freezing the correct balls"

Maybe it wasn't cheating, but this makes it sound like cheating.

He should have said "I was just making sure that at least the required frozen balls were frozen. " Very big difference. It is extremely difficult sometimes to get a perfectly frozen rack. However, sometimes it is not that difficult to get an adequately frozen rack. Most people seem to not know what makes an adequately frozen rack. Those tend to be the people that claim "cheating" and such. Ironically, it also tends to be those same people that claim they don't want to fuss over the rack and waste a lost of time. Ironic that making the rack adequately frozen is precisely done to avoid wasting the time agonizing over the rack to get it perfect. Getting the rack adequately frozen is functionally equivalent to perfectly frozen in most ways. Morally equivalent too. It just takes less time and effort.

Ignorance abounds when it comes to the rack topic.

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Simple fix, rack for your opponent. Solves the problem.

Hilariously misinformed. Then the breaker pays for the inadequacy of the racker. How silly. It quite obviously *creates* the problem. If everyone could rack perfectly, there would be no issue. The fact that racking skill is developed to radically different levels by different players is obvious proof that one player is likely to receive an advantage to to the shortcomings of the other player in this area.


KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Read your last sentence and you should understand why it is considered "cheating".

I do agree with other posters that your opponent had the right to examine the rack and chose not to but your explanation makes it clear that you know which balls to leave loose in order to make a wing ball.. So, if you deliberately do that, looks like cheating to me.

You horribly misunderstood the post you quoted. He specifically said that he did not intend to leave *any* balls loose. He said he made sure the important ones were tight. Huge difference. Only someone who knows nothing about the rack believes you have to leave any balls loose to make the wing ball. It is best to have all the balls frozen. When that is prohibitively impossible due to table conditions and time, the best solution is to make the important balls freeze and simply do your best with the remaining ones.

When I read his last sentence, what I understood is that it would require a considerable amount of ignorance about how to rack in order to interpret it as cheating.

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Guys, if all the balls ARE touching & the rack isn't tilted then the wing ball goes every time.

I have come to realize that there is a high degree of stupidity associated with this topic. Your completely factual post is probably pointless.

KMRUNOUT

 

[HawaiianEye]

Use the Accu-rack and quit the rigging.

 

[Bank it]

I have come to realize that there is a high degree of stupidity associated with this topic. Your completely factual post is probably pointless.



KMRUNOUT

I know, it seems lost on the crowd. Reading this thread I just had to shake my head.

 

[seven_7days]

Balls are touching. Its gay

Only if you're looking into the eyes of your opponent.

 

[erhino41]

You know your own intentions. If you were not trying to cheat then you would not need the opinions of others in this matter. It is the guilty conscience that needs justification for its actions.

 

[galipeau]

Hilariously misinformed. Then the breaker pays for the inadequacy of the racker. How silly. It quite obviously *creates* the problem. If everyone could rack perfectly, there would be no issue. The fact that racking skill is developed to radically different levels by different players is obvious proof that one player is likely to receive an advantage to to the shortcomings of the other player in this area.


KMRUNOUT

My suggestion solves the problem of culpability. If the opponent racks in this situation, OP would not be considered cheating. This is all I meant by the post, I suppose I should have clarified.

I realize entirely the new can of worms it opens up. Bob Jewett replied to my post and brought up some good points as well.

I actually think you bring up a lot of good points. There's no need for the snarky replies.

 

[HawaiianEye]

I broke from about 5 different spots

When you get it "rigged up just right", you could probably break from anywhere on the table and it would go.

The moving around just is a good cover for a gaff shot.

 

[JohnnyP]

Change the rules. Spot any wing balls that go in on the break. Breaker still at the table.

 

[ChopStick]

So I'm gambling with somebody the other day playing 'rack your own' 9-ball. I'm sort of a rack mechcanic and the table was racking good so I litterally made the wing ball every single time I broke in 3 sets. My oppenent got really mad and acted as if I was a cheater. I wasn't cheating, I was just freezing the correct balls and reading the remaining gaps. Should I feel guilty for knowing more about the rack than my oppenent? Am I in the wrong here?

"Freezing the correct balls"????

I know that no rack is going to settle in perfect and there will always be a gap somewhere but the way you describe this sounds like you were deliberately rigging the rack which is cheating. I was in a pro tournament once where there were several near fights break out on the floor over this very thing. The last one was between Buddy Hall and Corey Duel. Buddy was seriously pissed over Corey somehow making the wing ball every single time.

 

[Flip_dat_Quarta]

Change the rules. Spot any wing balls that go in on the break. Breaker still at the table.

If I change the rules I will lose my competetive edge. No way.

 

[Flip_dat_Quarta]

When you get it "rigged up just right", you could probably break from anywhere on the table and it would go.

The moving around just is a good cover for a gaff shot.

100% incorrect. The cue ball location is extremely important. Your ignorance on this topic is really showing

 

[Flip_dat_Quarta]

"Freezing the correct balls"????

I know that no rack is going to settle in perfect and there will always be a gap somewhere but the way you describe this sounds like you were deliberately rigging the rack which is cheating. I was in a pro tournament once where there were several near fights break out on the floor over this very thing. The last one was between Buddy Hall and Corey Duel. Buddy was seriously pissed over Corey somehow making the wing ball every single time.

So Corey Deuel is a cheater??

And Joe Tucker is a cheater too I guess??

 

[HawaiianEye]

If I change the rules I will lose my competetive edge. No way.

If you have to rig it to win, then maybe you need to practice up some more so you will be competitive.

 

[asbani]

The rack and break has been an issue in pool since forever, I am not surprised that there still is controversy whenever a subject comes about racking or making corner balls etc, it will never stop until the rule is completely and totally changed and redesigned.

To answer your question, 9Ball and making corner ball everytime is a problem by itself, the way to fix this is by racking the 9ball on the spot, or playing 10ball imo, but then again people has figured how to specifically make a ball on 10ball.

It's always when people figure how to make a specific ball, an issue arises, thats why the fix should evolve around breaking safe, just like snooker or 1pocket or straight pool.

And for those that mentioned and love the magic rack, it didn't fix anything, it made further complications and issues.

 

[The Renfro]

The rack and break has been an issue in pool since forever, I am not surprised that there still is controversy whenever a subject comes about racking or making corner balls etc, it will never stop until the rule is completely and totally changed and redesigned.

To answer your question, 9Ball and making corner ball everytime is a problem by itself, the way to fix this is by racking the 9ball on the spot, or playing 10ball imo, but then again people has figured how to specifically make a ball on 10ball.

It's always when people figure how to make a specific ball, an issue arises, thats why the fix should evolve around breaking safe, just like snooker or 1pocket or straight pool.

And for those that mentioned and love the magic rack, it didn't fix anything, it made further complications and issues.

9 on the spot... Accu-Rack... 18" Break Box.... 3 past the side..... US Open rules.... We did it last year and will do it this year.... Where are the further complications and issues...

Different games lean to different strategies.... Breaking safe in rotation games or requiring a push out after the break is a no go for the general public and players alike.....

You want to make it harder fine... Accu-Rack.. 10 on the spot.... have to break outside of the box... 3 balls past the head string.... All the balls are now on collision paths and it's a brutal game..... Will be very few packages but the break will be somewhat nullified...

 

[Str8PoolMan]

The Art of the Deal...

So if I can manipulate a deck of cards while shuffling them and my opponent can't, is it ok for me to do so? Hey, it's just my superior knowledge and skill, right?

I would love to play some no limit poker with anyone who says 'yes'.

Seriously though, I am not sure if the OP was cheating or not. I mean, it looks like tomato juice and smells like tomato juice, but that doesn't necessarily mean it tastes like tomato juice. Yet I don't think I could bring myself to do it in a match -- even for money.

 

[Flip_dat_Quarta]

So if I can manipulate a deck of cards while shuffling them and my opponent can't, is it ok for me to do so? Hey, it's just my superior knowledge and skill, right?

I would love to play some no limit poker with anyone who says 'yes'.

Seriously though, I am not sure if the OP was cheating or not. I mean, it looks like tomato juice and smells like tomato juice, but that doesn't necessarily mean it tastes like tomato juice. Yet I don't think I could bring myself to do it in a match -- even for money.

Why does everyone keep comparing the break to a deck of cards? They are completely different. A shuffled deck of cards has random outcome. I tightly racked 9-ball rack has the exact same outcome every time. So why the comparison?