man witnessed sad action last night - 2 idiots in a pool room

[Poolplaya9]

So.....let me get this straight.
If the OP, Playa, or Charlie were at a poker game and saw the one of the players had the
best hand, you guys feel it is okay to warn the other players?

Why would you, nobody is being deceived or taken advantage of. Now if you saw him stash an ace up his sleeve that might be a different story, or maybe if he was a long time great player whose first words when he sat down at the table were "what are the rules again and is it the full house or the straight that is the better hand I never can remember".

 

[BmoreMoney]

Why would you, nobody is being deceived or taken advantage of. Now if you saw him stash an ace up his sleeve that might be a different story, or maybe if he was a long time great player whose first words when he sat down at the table were "what are the rules again and is it the full house or the straight that is the better hand I never can remember".

Gimme a break lol. The guy with the ace doesn't walk out of the game, and that is different any way - that's like getting caught stealing balls in one pocket.

 

[Neil]

The blind man didn't have to go to the store either. He could have someone else go for him. He could take someone with him. He could wait outside until another customer came and ask for that customer to help him make sure he got the right change.

Just because a guy doesn't have to play pool for money doesn't make it ok to take advantage of him. A girl doesn't have to leave her house either (or go to the park), but "well she didn't have to leave her house" or "well she didn't have to go to the park" isn't an acceptable justification if she gets raped.

You are trying to create some difference where there is none. You are trying to create some justification where none exists. Anybody that truly thinks about it with logic and honesty will see that taking advantage of somebody in the pool is no different at all than taking advantage of somebody anywhere else in life.

The fault in your logic is that you automatically assume that he is being taken advantage of just because he is losing. Which means, to you, the only goal is to win money. That is not true in all cases. There are a number of reasons that him losing is nothing more than what he is willing to pay for what he is gaining at the time.

 

[BeiberLvr]

Being in a bad game and knowing it and still choosing to do it anyway falls under the category of nobody taking advantage of anybody. That isn't the type of scenario that was being discussed and I don't think anybody sees any problem with it.

In the OP's example, after Player B loses so much money, surely he knows he's in a bad game.

The reason that he, and others continue in those situations, is pride. Some people have egos so big that they'll keep going until they can't go any further. When you leave your ego at the door, you can't be taken advantage of.

 

[Poolplaya9]

The fault in your logic is that you automatically assume that he is being taken advantage of just because he is losing. Which means, to you, the only goal is to win money. That is not true in all cases. There are a number of reasons that him losing is nothing more than what he is willing to pay for what he is gaining at the time.

You clearly didn't read all my posts. I have said nothing to lead you to believe that I am automatically assuming he is being taken advantage of just because he is losing. In fact I said several things that show that I am not assuming that at all, in several different posts. I even specifically mentioned the example you are using, that someone could be willing to pay for what they are gaining at the time. Not sure how you missed them, but you clearly missed several of my posts.

 

[BeiberLvr]

Why would you, nobody is being deceived or taken advantage of. Now if you saw him stash an ace up his sleeve that might be a different story, or maybe if he was a long time great player whose first words when he sat down at the table were "what are the rules again and is it the full house or the straight that is the better hand I never can remember".

Now you're equating hustling to cheating?

 

[Lou Loulacy]

Have to agree with pool playa, defended his point well. I believe part of the reason pool isn't growing. People prey off the newbies. They get bitten hard and never come back.

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[Poolplaya9]

In the OP's example, after Player B loses so much money, surely he knows he's in a bad game.

The reason that he, and others continue in those situations, is pride. Some people have egos so big that they'll keep going until they can't go any further. When you leave your ego at the door, you can't be taken advantage of.

That isn't necessarily the only reason. Maybe player A was making it look like he was getting lucky. There are tons of other reasons it could be also if you took a few seconds to think about it.

 

[BmoreMoney]

Have to agree with pool playa, defended his point well. I believe part of the reason pool isn't growing. People prey off the newbies. They get bitten hard and never come back.

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It's not the reason. It's been this way FOREVA

 

[Poolplaya9]

Now you're equating hustling to cheating?

Define what you mean by hustling.

One of the most obvious hustles in pool is claiming to not play nearly as good as you actually do, or the old "I haven't played in six months" spiel, both of which are like one of the examples I gave for the card game. As for the ace example, it was simply another example of when you might say something in the card game example he used and wasn't meant to say that all pool hustling is equally egregious, but you already knew that.

 

[BeiberLvr]

Define what you mean by hustling.

One of the most obvious hustles in pool is claiming to not play nearly as good as you actually do, or the old "I haven't played in six months" spiel, both of which are like one of the examples I gave for the card game. As for the ace example, it was simply another example of when you might say something in the card game example he used and wasn't meant to say that all pool hustling is equally egregious, but you already knew that.

I think you defined hustling the same way I would.

But it's not cheating. The people getting cheated might not have a way out of the hand, and are "forced" to lose a lot of money. A person getting hustled can always step away, but they usually don't. Again...ego.

The main crux we keep skirting around isn't whether or not taking advantage of someone in pool is any more or less tolerable than other scenarios. It's whether or not it's okay for the OP, as a complete stranger, to interfere.

It's not, plain and simple.

But if you think it's okay, then go to a casino and look for the saddest person you can find on a slot machine. Tell them, "Hey there. Look around this place. Look at how everything is set up. It's designed in such a way to entice you to stay and keep gambling until you have no more money. You are being taken advantage of, and you should leave right now so you don't lose any more."

Just don't be surprised when they tell you to STFU and get out of their face.

Again...ego.

 

[Poolplaya9]

The main crux we keep skirting around isn't whether or not taking advantage of someone in pool is any more or less tolerable than other scenarios. It's whether or not it's okay for the OP, as a complete stranger, to interfere.

It's not, plain and simple.

I agree with your first paragraph. It is your second paragraph where you are wrong. If someone is truly being taken advantage of, or deceived, and they weren't aware of it, they will almost always want to know. The OP's SVB example was a perfect example. Not a single person in the world including you wouldn't want to be told it was SVB. Now if somebody already knows they are being taken advantage of, and is willingly doing it anyway (like in your casino example), then yes they probably don't want to hear what they already know because, you guessed it, they already knew.

 

[BmoreMoney]

I agree with your first paragraph. It is your second paragraph where you are wrong. If someone is truly being taken advantage of, or deceived, and they weren't aware of it, they will almost always want to know. The OP's SVB example was a perfect example. Not a single person in the world including you wouldn't want to be told it was SVB. Now if somebody already knows they are being taken advantage of, and is willingly doing it anyway (like in your casino example), then yes they probably don't want to hear what they already know because, you guessed it, they already knew.

I know where you spent most of your time and that's probably why you feel the way you do but how much time have you spent in the pool world? Do you think we've never run into a buzz saw lol???? It happens and can't tell you how many times we all had a good laugh about it afterwards.

 

[BmoreMoney]

Another thing, so when the interference came dude was down what $1000 at 50 a game? I think that would be 20 games. Sorry, but if you get stuck 20!!! Games and don't pull up or ask to adjust then..........

 

[alstl]

When I see a story like that I wonder where "guy B" gets his cash. I live in a college town and a lot of college kids act like that because it is rich Daddy's money.

 

[KissedOut]

So last night this room's regular, guy A, who can sort of play a little bit is playing this guy B for $50 a game. Guy B is down $650 already when I get there. This is really late at night. The room is packed. Guy B can't play. He's spinning the ball here and there but struggling with simple long shots. Guy B is trying so hard and keeps saying he's gonna win his money back, keeps trying. It was really hard to watch for some reason. Totally different speeds. Guy B definitely wasn't hustling, that was his actual speed. They were playing without a handicap - guy B had zero chance but didn't realize it. Finally I decided to step in and stop the bleeding. ( I thought guy B's ego just didn't know how to throw in the towel. I felt really bad for the guy ).

Guy A had his student there hanging out. So I dragged the student to another table and raced him to 2. I "lost" both games. Then I go back to the main table and start whining - I wanna get in! please race me to 5 for 500! I'm gonna need some weight though. To my shock guy A without negotiating just straight up offers me 3 games on the wire in a race to 5 ( he already knew his student "beat" me ). Wow. What an idiot. ( I'm nowhere near pro speed but significantly better than both guy A and guy B. Unfortunately he only wanted to race for a 100 since he didn't know me. Fine. I wasn't looking for action, I hate gambling - just wanted to stop the bleeding. Guy B lets us race on his table, I easily beat guy A. Take my 100. Guy A says next time we play without handicap. I go sure. Then the idiot guy B just can't wait to get back to the table. He wants to keep playing guy A!! What an idiot. That was his chance to say he's tired. Did you just not witness a guy on a totally different level than you? What are you doing. go home. ( I didn't say that ). I went home. They kept playing. I'm guessing guy B ended up dropping a few thousand.

So, basically a story about how you stole $100 from player A by misrepresenting yourself by dumping 2 games. Complete with a self-serving altruistic rationalization.

You're right, very sad action. At least Player A won his money honestly from Player B.

 

[KissedOut]

I know what you are getting at and there is a fine line in there but yes, I would want to know when I am being deceived and taken advantage of just like you and every other person in the world would. The "two willing adults" argument holds no water and isn't what makes the difference. The transaction between the cashier and the blind man (where the cashier intentionally gives him back less change than he is owed) is between two willing adults. What makes the difference is not whether both parties are adults, and willing, the difference is whether or not there is a deception being done to take advantage of someone.

Intentionally deceiving someone to take advantage of them is universally seen as wrong in literally pretty much every other situation on earth. For some reason that is not logical, the pool world has decided to see things differently when it comes to trying to get somebody's money playing pool.

Now I wasn't there in this case to be able to make a judgement on it. I don't know how much deception was going on, or how much player B was being taken advantage of.

Except in this case the only person intentionally deceiving anyone was the OP, who hustled $100 out of Player A by dumping 2 games to his student.

There is a difference between gambling and hustling. Nothing in the OP's post suggests that Player A was hustling Player B. But OP clearly hustled Player A.

 

[KissedOut]

Now you're equating hustling to cheating?

Worse. It is stealing. Assuming that we are not equating hustling with gambling.

 

[Johnny Rosato]

Except in this case the only person intentionally deceiving anyone was the OP, who hustled $100 out of Player A by dumping 2 games to his student.

There is a difference between gambling and hustling. Nothing in the OP's post suggests that Player A was hustling Player B. But OP clearly hustled Player A.

Good catch KissedOut,I was wondering when someone was gonna mention this !!! LOL

 

[jasonlaus]

Except in this case the only person intentionally deceiving anyone was the OP, who hustled $100 out of Player A by dumping 2 games to his student.

There is a difference between gambling and hustling. Nothing in the OP's post suggests that Player A was hustling Player B. But OP clearly hustled Player A.

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^

To the OP

Keep you nose out of other peoples business, or eventually it will get broke. This is a lesson usually learned very early in life........some people have a hard time learning though.

You sir are the dishonest one, and I'm only saying that cause of the high horse you came riding in on.
Jason