Manalo's First Loss Sux

[jjinfla]

It's a shame to have an otherwise great event spoiled by poor officiating and an inept scoring system (GFI). You should know beforehand that in a Round Robin field of players, there will be ties. This is maybe the worst tiebreaking system they could have devised. A simple TGW (total games won) would have worked quite well.
Hopefully the television will be done well. The only good TV I've seen to date has been SkySports coverage of the WPV. ESPN has been butchering pool for years.

TGW in the group is what they go by. Then they go to GFI. I understand this system is used in 3 cushion billiards and is accepted as the standard.

I had a seat by that corner pocket where Manalo tried the safe. At the time I thought he missed it. So did Bustamante. So did the ref. So did the replay on slow motion camera. This would be an excellent DVD to purchase.

Manalo was going for three fouls on the shot rather than try and break up the two tied up balls. If he hid Bustamante then Busta would have had two and Manalo would have tried for three.

Tony Robles three fouled Neils on a similar safe earlier.

But in five days they only had two incidents and I think they were handled properly.

Jake

 

[Jaden]

what' up with you?

What does 'very soon' mean? Why didnt he call it immediately?

Gabber

Gabber, I just reviewed a lot of your posts and it seems as though all you have done is talk a lot of Sh4T about the IPT and tried to create controversy to discredit them.

I really don't understand some of the animosity from some of the AZ'ers, it's really quite pathetic.

Please explain it to me? It reminds me of a lot of liberal junko commy B.S.

"CONFORM OR ELSE. >>>> Blah blah." Pool should stay the same, work within the system, don't try to make it better, that changes it, Change is SCARY, NNNNOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

Sorry, guys, just thought I would jump on the band wagon of talking some sh%t.

 

[Gabber]

TGW in the group is what they go by. Then they go to GFI. I understand this system is used in 3 cushion billiards and is accepted as the standard.

I had a seat by that corner pocket where Manalo tried the safe. At the time I thought he missed it. So did Bustamante. So did the ref. So did the replay on slow motion camera. This would be an excellent DVD to purchase.

Manalo was going for three fouls on the shot rather than try and break up the two tied up balls. If he hid Bustamante then Busta would have had two and Manalo would have tried for three.

Tony Robles three fouled Neils on a similar safe earlier.

But in five days they only had two incidents and I think they were handled properly.

Jake

What was the distance between the 2 balls?
how far away was the ref?
Was he on the right side to see the shot?
Did they show the slo-mo on sceen for all to see?
Was it a close-up?

Questions.............

Gabber...BTW, can you point me to the text on the IPT site that says that TGW is the deciding factor on who goes thru? I cant find it.

 

[bruin70]

What was the distance between the 2 balls?
how far away was the ref?
Was he on the right side to see the shot?
Did they show the slo-mo on sceen for all to see?
Was it a close-up?

Questions.............

Gabber...BTW, can you point me to the text on the IPT site that says that TGW is the deciding factor on who goes thru? I cant find it.

are you just not paying attention, or have i just now read in a few posts that slow-mo showed the foul???

 

[pillage6]

Jeez Gabber, give it a rest. The ref called it right, hell were you even in the same state of the tournament or are you just a keyboard commander and calling shots from home?

You must be the type of person who NEVER makes a mistake or at least one who never admits to one. Take some Mydol and chill out man, the world is not going to end because the ref got it RIGHT.

 

[Gabber]

Gabber, I just reviewed a lot of your posts and it seems as though all you have done is talk a lot of Sh4T about the IPT and tried to create controversy to discredit them. All I ever do is ask questions!

I really don't understand some of the animosity from some of the AZ'ers, it's really quite pathetic. There is no animosity, just trying to get the truth. I have done more for the IPT than YOU. I took the time to download Colin's clips, edited then, compressed them and put them on a site the I pay for- just to give the folks on AZ the opportunity to get a 'feel' of the tourny! Dont bother thanking me!
Do you call that biased?

Please explain it to me? It reminds me of a lot of liberal junko commy B.S.

"CONFORM OR ELSE. >>>> Blah blah." Pool should stay the same, work within the system, don't try to make it better, that changes it, Change is SCARY, NNNNOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

Sorry, guys, just thought I would jump on the band wagon of talking some sh%t.

Didnt you say that you were preparing to enter the IPT? Doesnt that make you bias?

Gabber

 

[jsp]

Manalo was going for three fouls on the shot rather than try and break up the two tied up balls. If he hid Bustamante then Busta would have had two and Manalo would have tried for three.

Tony Robles three fouled Neils on a similar safe earlier.

Really?? A three-foul rule was in effect? That's the first I heard of it. No wonder Manalo played it the way he did with ball in hand. What the heck is a 3 foul rule doing in 8ball? It seems like you can win a lot of racks by abusing this rule. Do you know how many racks were won because of this rule?

 

[SPINTHEBALL]

How do you abuse a 3 foul rule?

 

[bobroberts]

Really?? A three-foul rule was in effect? That's the first I heard of it. No wonder Manalo played it the way he did with ball in hand. What the heck is a 3 foul rule doing in 8ball? It seems like you can win a lot of racks by abusing this rule. Do you know how many racks were won because of this rule?

In all the matches I saw played which was most of them, I only saw 1 game that was lost on the 3 foul rule.I saw it tried a few different times but the opposing player always managed to hit his object ball.

 

[bobroberts]

What does 'very soon' mean? Why didnt he call it immediately?

Gabber

Very soon means immediatly.I was there and the ref called it as soon as it happened.Now stop complaining about this the point is moot.

 

[Jaden]

Yeah pretty much.

Didnt you say that you were preparing to enter the IPT? Doesnt that make you bias?

Gabber

I want the money I'll admit it. for the last ten years I've wanted nothing but to become a pro, well I've wanted other stuff too, but before now, I couldn't justify doing what was necesary. Now I can justify it. I admit that I really want the IPT to succeed and that I am biased.

Everything has always come so easy to me that I have never given my full effort to anything in my life. With my love for pool, and the chance to actually make a decent living at it, I'm now giving my all to pool. We'll see whether that pans out or not but either way, I want the IPT to suceed. So yes, I am biased, I'll say it again.

I'm also biased in that I bought KT's book long before I knew he had anything to do with pool and I agree with a lot that he states in his book and had thought it myself long before I ever bought the book. So in many ways I am like KT, so I can see how his success may add to pool's success and then may add to my ability to live my dream.

I just hate all of the negativity and the seeming desire by some for the IPT to fail. Hell, if it means a revitalization of eightball and the dying of nineball, I would be willing to except that if it helps to rejuvinate pool in general. Presonally I think it will drive greater interest and boom the nineball tours out there making pool thrive in all aspects and hopefully it might even help to bring back 14.1 also.

 

[Gabber]

Jeez Gabber, give it a rest. The ref called it right, hell were you even in the same state of the tournament or are you just a keyboard commander and calling shots from home?

You must be the type of person who NEVER makes a mistake or at least one who never admits to one. Take some Mydol and chill out man, the world is not going to end because the ref got it RIGHT.

Just asking questions.
Are you saying the ref made a mistake?
First you assure us that the ref called it right[ yeah I know, you read it somewhere !]-then you say 'have you never made a mistake'???????? ...implying that the ref might have been at fault but lets let it go, we are all human ?

I have played shots like this that opponents have questioned because they have not seen the ball move [ because they were not close enough] and vice versa. In all cases, if the shooter says he hit the ball - thats it.
They were playing the Honour System, were they not?

The question isnt whether the Qball hit the OB, its whether the ref made a decision based on a spectators opinion!
Normally, If you have a ref and you make a foul the ref says foul IMMEDIATLY, not 'pretty soon'! If he doesnt say it 'immediatly'- he didnt see it.

Its that simple.


Would you rather talk about tips/chalk etc?

Gabber....

 

[pillage6]

The ref could have done things differently, but so can we all. The ref didn't make a mistake, he called the hit correctly and the tape confims that. Personally I don't see how it wasn't a good hit at the time, but I was 25 ft. away and at a bad angle.

What I would talk about is irrelevant, I just don't like seeing someone beat a point to death after it's been resolved.

 

[jjinfla]

if the shooter says he hit the ball - thats it.
They were playing the Honour System, were they not?

The question isnt whether the Qball hit the OB, its whether the ref made a decision based on a spectators opinion!
Normally, If you have a ref and you make a foul the ref says foul IMMEDIATLY, not 'pretty soon'! If he doesnt say it 'immediatly'- he didnt see it.

Its that simple.


Would you rather talk about tips/chalk etc?

Gabber....

Well Grabber what is the purpose of having a ref? When there is a ref he is the final authority, not the player. The ref called foul. Manalo was stunned. Looked at the spectators. And three people said, foul, foul, foul. The ref did not ask the fans for a decision.

And if it really was the honour system like you state then why didn't Bustamante say it was a good shot?

The horse is dead.

And now that you mention it the IPT will be selling chalk among other things. And guess what? The profits from sales will go into a pot for the players. Tell me another tournament that does that.

And if a player on the tour recommends someone to try and qualify and he does the tour member gets a $100 finder's fee if his name is placed on the application form. If no name then the $100 will go in a general pot and split among the tour members. Again. Not bad.

Jake

 

[jsp]

How do you abuse a 3 foul rule?

Considering there are more balls that you can hide behind in 8ball, it's a lot easier to use the 3 foul rule to win a rack then it is in 9ball.

But forget about abusing the rule. I just think a 3 foul rule in general takes away from the game of 8ball. It throws out a lot of strategy and tactical play out the window. In many instances, you can no longer choose to intentionally foul. Sure it may shorten the games and prevent stalemates, but it would also make the games a lot more boring. It would look more like a game of 9ball, where you can predict every shot that will occur.

A 3 foul rule in 8ball is similar to the infield-fly rule in baseball. It tries to make the game flow better by tampering with the game's fundamental rules. It just takes away from the game.

 

[poolboy17]

Considering there are more balls that you can hide behind in 8ball, it's a lot easier to use the 3 foul rule to win a rack then it is in 9ball.

But forget about abusing the rule. I just think a 3 foul rule in general takes away from the game of 8ball. It throws out a lot of strategy and tactical play out the window. In many instances, you can no longer choose to intentionally foul. Sure it may shorten the games and prevent stalemates, but it would also make the games a lot more boring. It would look more like a game of 9ball, where you can predict every shot that will occur.

A 3 foul rule in 8ball is similar to the infield-fly rule in baseball. It tries to make the game flow better by tampering with the game's fundamental rules. It just takes away from the game.

You raise some valid issues. I'm pretty sure that part of the reason they did it that way was to eliminate stalemates. However, it's funny that hardly anyone tried to expolit that rule. As someone else pointed out, to the best of my knowledge as well...there was only one successful effort to 3 foul someone.

They were breaking the racks SO wide open that I think it would have been difficult to do it repeatedly. They all have so much confidence and run out ability, I think they wanted to put it into their own hands instead of letting the other guy back to the table. As you would expect, I saw some world class safety returns. Just when you thought someone was dead in the water...they'd come with some miraculous shot to get back in it.

As far as intentional foul safeties...in the dozens of matches I observed...there were none. I don't think it was due to the three foul rule though. Ball in hand is like handing the other guy the game. Bottom line...they could all run out from anywhere at any time. It was fun to watch!

 

[TX Poolnut]

My 2 cents

I was sitting literally behind Mr. Bustamante during this entire match. When I say literally, I mean I was sitting in the VIP seat directly behind his chair. When the call was made, Mr. Bustamante got out of his chair to shoot because he knew it was his shot, not because a foul had or had not been committed, but because a safety had been called by Mr. Manalo. I can tell you all for sure that Mr. Bustamante did not see the shot because the referee was standing between him and the cue ball. The picture that was posted earlier in this thread isn't even one of these two players. It's a picture of Mika Immonen. Mr. Manalo never rolled up his sleeves during the entire weekend. Regardless of what did or did not happen, it was Busta's inning. He only took the cue from the referee's hand, NOT from the table. After the match was over, he came back to his seat and commented to me personally that he didn't see the shot and only did what the referee told him, which was to take ball in hand. I've also read posts about the distance between the ref and the shot. The fact is, the ref very close to the shot (almost on top of it). Mr. Manalo had to walk around him after the hit on the ball to get back to his chair. I can't wait for the dvd of this match to come out so that all this can be seen.

 

[TX Poolnut]

By the way...

Kim Davenport was the one who succesfully got his opponent on three fouls. His opponent was Karen Corr. The match was on day one.

 

[runall8]

I was sitting literally behind Mr. Bustamante during this entire match. When I say literally, I mean I was sitting in the VIP seat directly behind his chair. When the call was made, Mr. Bustamante got out of his chair to shoot because he knew it was his shot, not because a foul had or had not been committed, but because a safety had been called by Mr. Manalo. I can tell you all for sure that Mr. Bustamante did not see the shot because the referee was standing between him and the cue ball. The picture that was posted earlier in this thread isn't even one of these two players. It's a picture of Mika Immonen. Mr. Manalo never rolled up his sleeves during the entire weekend. Regardless of what did or did not happen, it was Busta's inning. He only took the cue from the referee's hand, NOT from the table. After the match was over, he came back to his seat and commented to me personally that he didn't see the shot and only did what the referee told him, which was to take ball in hand. I've also read posts about the distance between the ref and the shot. The fact is, the ref very close to the shot (almost on top of it). Mr. Manalo had to walk around him after the hit on the ball to get back to his chair. I can't wait for the dvd of this match to come out so that all this can be seen.

just got in from orlando..monday 6 pm eastern time...I was sitting in the first row of the ga seats...this is what i seen also...they did replay the tape later and kt did come back later himself and told manalo that it was a foul....great time...can't wait for the next one...Joe

 

[kep2]

This says a lot about Bustamante and the referee. Bustamante for taking the foul if he knew it was not.....and the referee for not knowing the rules. If he didn't see it, he could not have called it based on the crowd's opinion.

Nice to hear what TX Poolnut and runall8 have to say on this issue. Bustamante's character was made suspect for a while there with post like the above. Glad the "if" word was rightfully used.