Mark Wilson - CB or OB Last - Age Old Issue

zencues.com said:
Your eyes should always be focused on the target OB.

There are exceptions.

One exception being on the break when, once lined up, your eyes should be entirely focused on the CB.

Others being a full masse shot, jump shot, jacked-up over a ball shooting the length of the table.

A spot shot with my eyes closed for money :)
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Cross side shot with the cue ball frozen to the rail is another.
 
boogieman said:
Depending on the shot I might have one eye looking at the pocket and the other on the OB, or one on the pocket and one on the CB.
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Hang on, for real? I don’t think that’s physically possible, except maybe for this guy…

IMG_6024.jpeg
 
RT Ford said:
The basket or the basketball? The tennis ball or the racket? The bowling ball or the pins? The baseball or the bat? Just can't figure it out. It's driving me crazy!
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The difference between these sports is that with tennis and baseball you are striking the ball, whereas in bowling and basketball you are throwing the ball. In tennis and baseball (golf too), you are told to "watch the ball". In bowling and basketball you watch where you want the ball to go. Pool is a striking game rather than a throwing game, so it is a bit of a puzzle that most pool players look at the OB last (90 percent according to Mark Wilson).

I started looking at the CB last. It has been quite an adjustment (and still is). But, for me, it has helped because I tend to stay down longer when looking at the CB last. Also, I think that I hit the CB more accurately.

All that being said, I agree with Mark Wilson that it doesn't matter which you look at last. If the shot is lined up correctly and your stroke is straight, you will pocket the ball. I also think that CB last requires more trust in your stroke.
 
Stickman9 said:
The difference between these sports is that with tennis and baseball you are striking the ball, whereas in bowling and basketball you are throwing the ball. In tennis and baseball (golf too), you are told to "watch the ball". In bowling and basketball you watch where you want the ball to go. Pool is a striking game rather than a throwing game, so it is a bit of a puzzle that most pool players look at the OB last (90 percent according to Mark Wilson).

I started looking at the CB last. It has been quite an adjustment (and still is). But, for me, it has helped because I tend to stay down longer when looking at the CB last. Also, I think that I hit the CB more accurately.

All that being said, I agree with Mark Wilson that it doesn't matter which you look at last. If the shot is lined up correctly and your stroke is straight, you will pocket the ball. I also think that CB last requires more trust in your stroke.
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Golf Baseball and Tennis are compound motion swings.....Pool other than the arm nothing really should be moving.........(on the break shot the stroke becomes more compound so looking at the CB makes sense)

For reference.....putting in Golf is about the closest comparison as neither "ball" is moving and when putting in Golf you are limiting the amount of body parts moving during the stroke....

When putting in Golf.....once I had my final set up and was ready to stroke the put....I did not look at the ball...I looked at either the hole (for short putts) or a spot on the green 3' in front of the ball where I wanted to send the ball.

I actually started a thread (Tip or Front of Grip Hand) in the ATI forum about a method I am experimenting with......Once I have my final alignment...and am at the pause right before the final stroke....my thought focus becomes just the feeling of hitting the contact point on the OB with the front portion of my hand or thumb side of my wrist....basically forgetting about anything else...no tip, cue, etc...

Just like in Golf where the blade is just and extension of your hand.....the tip is also an extension of your hand....if the hand is hitting the contact point...(or the feeling)...then so is the tip....(or in reality where the tip is sending the CB)
 
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Oikawa said:
If someone aims with a focus on the contact point, it is clearly helpful to look at that point. As someone who doesn't look at a specific point on the OB, I have another reason for OB last:

My method is to look at the OB (not a specific point, just as a whole) while being aware of the CB and cue in my peripheral vision, and focus on the mental image of 1. the cue going perfectly straight, and 2. the shot image staying completely still (or in other words, not moving anything except the shooting arm). If these two things happen, the shot will go in, assuming I was properly aligned with the cue, which I pay great attention to before shooting.

With this approach, the reason for looking at the OB last being better is that, looking at the CB means the OB is blurry in my peripheral vision, but looking at the OB still keeps the CB and cue clear in my peripheral vision. And it is clear that a non-blurry image is more effective for the subconsciousness to work with in terms of shooting straight and staying still.

So OB last simply provides a clearer visual image of everything relevant compared to CB last, and that is why I do it.

Obviously none of this matters for the easy shots, but you should always build your technique around the shots where you start missing due to imperfections.
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This method is called whole shot. I believe it is the most natural way to aim.
 
The experiments thread has lots of background noise produced by less than knowledgeable. It does however contain good information. Starting with Willie Hoppe and closing with Stephen Hendry. Two that have worn the GOAT title. Stephen turned his title over to Ronnie O'Sullivan. Stephen says Ronnie does the same. Ronnie speaking to the question over a decade ago, has him saying it could be either.
Experiments in looking at the cueball while delivering the stroke
 
Precision is the goal. A precise contact between cueball and object ball is required. Precision in location and speed and spin at impact. I now obtain the most precise contact with the object ball by making the most precise strike to the cueball. I can make the most precise strike to the cueball with my eyes on that interaction.
When I am focused and playing well my eyes stay with the white through the contact and have a good read on what the cueball leaves the tip with. I am able to read the contact between the cueball and object ball by simply following the cueball. I see any rotation imparted to the object ball at impact. Not a surprise as when playing baseball I could see the label on a spinning 90 mph fast ball. So the claim that object ball last provides a better view of the cueball object ball interaction is not accurate.
 
RT Ford said:
The basket or the basketball? The tennis ball or the racket? The bowling ball or the pins? The baseball or the bat? Just can't figure it out. It's driving me crazy!
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Actually, I was being a bit facetious. But I would love to play for money with anyone that looks at the cue ball last.
 
Stickman9 said:
The difference between these sports is that with tennis and baseball you are striking the ball, whereas in bowling and basketball you are throwing the ball. In tennis and baseball (golf too), you are told to "watch the ball". In bowling and basketball you watch where you want the ball to go. Pool is a striking game rather than a throwing game, so it is a bit of a puzzle that most pool players look at the OB last (90 percent according to Mark Wilson).

I started looking at the CB last. It has been quite an adjustment (and still is). But, for me, it has helped because I tend to stay down longer when looking at the CB last. Also, I think that I hit the CB more accurately.

All that being said, I agree with Mark Wilson that it doesn't matter which you look at last. If the shot is lined up correctly and your stroke is straight, you will pocket the ball. I also think that CB last requires more trust in your stroke.
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Whether you strike, throw, or roll a ball is irrelevant. It's about focusing on a target. If you're a batter, you focus on the ball. If you're a bowler, you focus on the pins or a spot on the alley. If you're a tennis player, you focus on the incoming ball. In pool, you should focus on a pinpoint spot on the object ball, not the cue ball. There may be some exceptions, like the break, jump, or masse shots, but not when you're shooting a normal shot.
 
There is a shot I’ve been miscuing on for years. Just the smallest hair off of straight in, and drawing the cb back just a little. Something must be going on with it that is tricking me and pulling my stroke off enough to miscue.

A few months ago I started looking at the cb last on this specific shot, and I’ve had good success with it.

Knock on wood:)
 
RT Ford said:
Make it easy on yourself. Tell ya what, you put a video on this site, showing yourself running a table, looking at the cue ball last, and we'll play.
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Well at negotiation my answer is, "whatever is comfortable. "
Ooops well I thought I was responding to , "Make it easy on yourself".
So as to me putting up a video....Nah. I don't give free samples. 😉
I won't be going to Ohio, so no point in the imaginary dance. Unless of course you expect to travel through Kingman to Vegas.
My Fargo is mid 500s and easy enough to look up.
 
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