Mark Wilson's Two MC Picks

[sjm]

I'm surprised to see you say that. I believe anyone who has played on a team, two-man or more, knows different regardless of the outcome or how it looks.

Lou Figueroa

Yes, but this is not a team in the sense of sports. This is not a team that lives together, travels together at length, and competes together often. It is, and always has been, an impromptu gathering of top talent and the matter of chemistry was something I never heard mentioned in the first seventeen Mosconi Cups. It was only when the 2013 team, which was not picked by America but instead by Matchroom alone, played with an unprecedented lack of cohesion that the chemistry issue was discussed at all.

As I've said before, Team USA has struggled largely in singles and has performed just fine in doubles. If we're gonna win it's gonna be because of how our guys play when they compete alone. Do you think these seasoned veterans who customarily play with a minimal fanfare can't perform without great support from onlookers? If so, you are mistaken. Mosconi winners pocket as much as they'd typically win by winning five tournaments on US soil. Anyone who thinks these guys need more than the money to motivate them is overlooking just how little the pro pool player in America typically earns.

Chemistry is huge in team sports, but not so much in an impromptu exhibition of players who will disband when the exhibition is over. Yes, it matters, but the Mosconi is won with great play, not great teamwork.

 

[lfigueroa]

Yes, but this is not a team in the sense of sports. This is not a team that lives together, travels together at length, and competes together often. It is, and always has been, an impromptu gathering of top talent and the matter of chemistry was something I never heard mentioned in the first seventeen Mosconi Cups. It was only when the 2013 team, which was not picked by America but instead by Matchroom alone, played with an unprecedented lack of cohesion that the chemistry issue was discussed at all.

As I've said before, Team USA has struggled largely in singles and has performed just fine in doubles. If we're gonna win it's gonna be because of how our guys play when they compete alone. Do you think these seasoned veterans who customarily play with a minimal fanfare can't perform without great support from onlookers? If so, you are mistaken. Mosconi winners pocket as much as they'd typically win by winning five tournaments on US soil. Anyone who thinks these guys need more than the money to motivate them is overlooking just how little the pro pool player in America typically earns.

Chemistry is huge in team sports, but not so much in an impromptu exhibition of players who will disband when the exhibition is over. Yes, it matters, but the Mosconi is won with great play, not great teamwork.

Wrong.

Of course it's a team. Cobbled together at the last moment no doubt but still chemistry, cohesion, and synergy has an effect. I've seen it in pick-up games at the pool hall, $100 a man teams; or widows (captains) at $25 a tickie; or just a doubles league for a trophy. It works with one guy and is ca-ca with another. I can't believe you can be blind to this, particularly when you have witnessed how important this is to the players involved.

Lou Figueroa

 

[sjm]

Wrong.

Of course it's a team. Cobbled together at the last moment no doubt but still chemistry, cohesion, and synergy has an effect. I've seen it in pick-up games at the pool hall, $100 a man teams; or widows (captains); or doubles leagues. It works with one guy and is ca-ca with another. I can't believe you can be blind to this.

Lou Figueroa

You've seen what you've seen and I've seen what I've seen. When the US was winning the Mosconi Cup, it was with great play.

The 2014 team was supposedly a cohesive one, but it was blown out because cohesion ensures nothing. Great play and great play alone gets the job done.

 

[lfigueroa]

You've seen what you've seen and I've seen what I've seen. When the US was winning the Mosconi Cup, it was with great play.

The 2014 team was supposedly a cohesive one, but it was blown out because cohesion ensures nothing. Great play and great play alone gets the job done.

It'a not a question of what I've seen, it's a question of what happens between two pool players on the same team. The right chemistry can make a world of difference. Can't believe you don't know that. Beyond that, there is how the whole team supports each other.

Lou Figueroa

 

[sjm]

It'a not a question of what I've seen, it's a question of what happens between two pool players on the same team. The right chemistry can make a world of difference. Can't believe you don't know that. Beyond that, there is how the whole team supports each other.

Lou Figueroa

I know you think I'm clueless but we've always done just fine in doubles and I'm not very concerned about that part of the event.

We stink in singles, the matches in which players must perform alone. Chemistry makes little to no difference in singles. Believe it and stop accusing me of ignorance. It' becoming pretty insulting.

 

[LIAKOS27]

I know you think I'm clueless but we've always done just fine in doubles and I'm not very concerned about that part of the event.

We stink in singles, the matches in which players must perform alone. Chemistry makes little to no difference in singles. Believe it and stop accusing me of ignorance. It' becoming pretty insulting.

After reading Lou's post before this one, I felt like this as well.

Chemistry has little to nothing to do in the singles. And personally, I want to see US destroy Europeans!

I honestly believe it's a different kind of pressure out there and I'm not too confident with US! At the end of the day, with the talent that's out there, its a coin toss. What's needed to win is nerves of steel, and I just don't see it!

Just my 2 drachmas

 

[lfigueroa]

I know you think I'm clueless but we've always done just fine in doubles and I'm not very concerned about that part of the event.

We stink in singles, the matches in which players must perform alone. Chemistry makes little to no difference in singles. Believe it and stop accusing me of ignorance. It' becoming pretty insulting.

I don't think you are clueless. I just think your judgement on this issue is in error.

Even in singles the bench matters in sports.

You don't get it, you don't get it.
You haven't experienced it, you haven't experienced it.

Lou Figueroa

 

[sjm]

I don't think you are clueless. I just think your judgement on this issue is in error.

Even in singles the bench matters in sports.

You don't get it, you don't get it.
You haven't experienced it, you haven't experienced it.

Lou Figueroa

Time to put this debate to bed. We'll agree to disagree. You're a good friend, Lou, and I look forward to greeting you as such next month.

 

[dnschmidt]

To the best of my knowledge team togetherness has never pocketed a ball.

 

[BasementDweller]

Lou,

Earl Strickland's lifetime record in doubles play at the Mosconi Cup is 24-12. Would your contention be that this is due to great chemistry between him and his partners?

I'm with SJM on this. The chemistry talk is just that. It's easy to have good team chemistry when your partner is running out.

 

[Nostroke]

Yes, but this is not a team in the sense of sports. This is not a team that lives together, travels together at length, and competes together often. It is, and always has been, an impromptu gathering of top talent and the matter of chemistry was something I never heard mentioned in the first seventeen Mosconi Cups. It was only when the 2013 team, which was not picked by America but instead by Matchroom alone, played with an unprecedented lack of cohesion that the chemistry issue was discussed at all.

As I've said before, Team USA has struggled largely in singles and has performed just fine in doubles. If we're gonna win it's gonna be because of how our guys play when they compete alone. Do you think these seasoned veterans who customarily play with a minimal fanfare can't perform without great support from onlookers? If so, you are mistaken. Mosconi winners pocket as much as they'd typically win by winning five tournaments on US soil. Anyone who thinks these guys need more than the money to motivate them is overlooking just how little the pro pool player in America typically earns.

Chemistry is huge in team sports, but not so much in an impromptu exhibition of players who will disband when the exhibition is over. Yes, it matters, but the Mosconi is won with great play, not great teamwork.

!!

Thank you-100% correct!!

 

[lfigueroa]

Time to put this debate to bed. We'll agree to disagree. You're a good friend, Lou, and I look forward to greeting you as such next month.

Stu, of course we're OK.

But I won't see you next month, having decided to pass on the MC this year.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Lou,

Earl Strickland's lifetime record in doubles play at the Mosconi Cup is 24-12. Would your contention be that this is due to great chemistry between him and his partners?

I'm with SJM on this. The chemistry talk is just that. It's easy to have good team chemistry when your partner is running out.

Well first off, I know that a few years back, when Earl was being Earl, several MC players said they would not play on the team again if he were selected to play. That alone tells you that one player can have a corrosive effect on a team. I don't believe it's unreasonable to say that there is a flip side to that and that how a player behaves can have a positive effect on team members.

Take a look at the Ryder Cup, probably the closest event we can compare the MC to. Dave Stockton, a former RC captain said, "“If it’s between talent and chemistry, I’ll take chemistry. You can have the best players in the world, but if the captain pairs them wrong, you don’t win.”

Jim Furyk, who played on numerous RC said, "“I think chemistry is extremely important. I think not only how the players mix together as 12 but how we play together as a team, how the pairings are put together, how those personalities and those styles match up with each other and probably for different formats as well. I think that provides the players the best opportunity to compete and do well. I think it’s wise not only to pair guys not only by how their games are physically together but also by their temperament.”

Tom Watson, another former RC captain said, "When I made the captain’s picks that was about chemistry. Obviously Webb Simpson and Bubba Watson have a very good chemistry, and Keegan Bradley and Phil Mickelson have great chemistry. It’s shown in the past. You have to kind of bank on past experiences. That’s part of it. Also the way they are playing is a factor. But there’s no one factor. There’s a combination.”

My own experience, having spent four years of my life playing nothing but five-man team pool, doubles and scotch doubles, is that chemistry on a team makes a huge difference. YMMV.

Lou Figueroa

 

[justadub]

Well first off, I know that a few years back, when Earl was being Earl, several MC players said they would not play on the team again if he were selected to play. That alone tells you that one player can have a corrosive effect on a team. I don't believe it's unreasonable to say that there is a flip side to that and that how a player behaves can have a positive effect on team members.

Yeah, they said that....and then a few of them played with him again anyway a couple years ago. Imagine that?

FWIW, I think there is a little something to the chemistry thing, but I don't worry much about it with this bunch of players, or most of them to be honest. They all seem to hang out together and such, based on the facebook posts they all make. Hell, the chemistry between some of the opponents in The Cup seems pretty good too.

 

[lfigueroa]

Yeah, they said that....and then a few of them played with him again anyway a couple years ago. Imagine that?

FWIW, I think there is a little something to the chemistry thing, but I don't worry much about it with this bunch of players, or most of them to be honest. They all seem to hang out together and such, based on the facebook posts they all make. Hell, the chemistry between some of the opponents in The Cup seems pretty good too.

It took five years before three of his former teammates would say they would play with him again. Don't know what kind of deal was cut to make that happen

Lou Figueroa

 

[justadub]

It took five years before three of his former teammates would say they would play with him again. Don't know what kind of deal was cut to make that happen

Lou Figueroa

"I'll never play on the Cup Team with him again!

***phone rings***

How much? Of course I'm in!"

 

[lfigueroa]

"I'll never play on the Cup Team with him again!

***phone rings***

How much? Of course I'm in!"

"Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown."

Lou Figueroa

 

[justadub]

Now one of them is on Facebook lamenting that he isn't on the Cup team this year, promoting the idea that a team of himself, JA, Hatch, Oscar....and Earl would be a better team than the one we are sending.

Claims there is a good old boy network. Bwahahaha

Amazing...

 

[fat Albert]

Yeah, they said that....and then a few of them played with him again anyway a couple years ago. Imagine that?

FWIW, I think there is a little something to the chemistry thing, but I don't worry much about it with this bunch of players, or most of them to be honest. They all seem to hang out together and such, based on the facebook posts they all make. Hell, the chemistry between some of the opponents in The Cup seems pretty good too.

They played with him because Match Book put him on the team he was not selected by the team. Barry Hearn can and has over ridden players as he is the boss and the owner so that is his choice.

 

[justadub]

They played with him because Match Book put him on the team he was not selected by the team. Barry Hearn can and has over ridden players as he is the boss and the owner so that is his choice.

Oh certainly...but their resolve to "never play on the Cup Team with him again" faded with the opportunity to get the Cup cash again. They didn't have to play with him again...