Mark Wilson's Way Wont Work For Me

[DrCue'sProtege]

i know you folks will think i am crazy, but the way mark wilson changed my mechanics just puts too much pressure/stress/tension/weight on my front (left) leg, and i just absolutely cannot get comfortable. he has my stance so open that my left leg just cant handle the weight. when i use his stance all i seem to be concentrating on is holding my left leg still, not letting it move, and i just cant do it. i dont have the build of an offensive lineman, my leg is unable to withstand the weight, and as a result i can feel my body moving just oh so slightly when i shoot. as a result, i miss.

the snooker stance possibly might be the better way for me to go. or else a middle of the road stance. but the mark wilson stance just doesnt work for me.

just thought i would ramble on during this rainy sunday afternoon.
DCP

 

[vapoolplayer]

i know you folks will think i am crazy, but the way mark wilson changed my mechanics just puts too much pressure/stress/tension/weight on my front (left) leg, and i just absolutely cannot get comfortable. he has my stance so open that my left leg just cant handle the weight. when i use his stance all i seem to be concentrating on is holding my left leg still, not letting it move, and i just cant do it. i dont have the build of an offensive lineman, my leg is unable to withstand the weight, and as a result i can feel my body moving just oh so slightly when i shoot. as a result, i miss.

the snooker stance possibly might be the better way for me to go. or else a middle of the road stance. but the mark wilson stance just doesnt work for me.

just thought i would ramble on during this rainy sunday afternoon.
DCP

couple things you can do here..........

1: do everything he says, except move the leg into a spot that is comfortable

2: call mark............i'm sure he'd be more than happy to talk to you over the phone and give you other options, as i'm sure he's had this problem before.

VAP

 

[Williebetmore]

just thought i would ramble on during this rainy sunday afternoon.
DCP

DCP,
I think you are just depressed about what happened to Loogootee in the state finals. You'll feel better tomorrow (maybe).

Signed
WB who lives about 1 mile from Lapel

 

[DrCue'sProtege]

yeah, looked to me like Lapel brought their own referees with em. you cant beat 7, ya know

i help with the Loogootee team, and i had driven to Lafayette the previous weekend for the Lapel semi-state game. i told the rest of our coaching staff we'd have to play very well to beat them. how about that Hatchet ending?

anyway, back to the original post. i might try and email mark, see what he says. or, as you say, just try moving the left leg a little while still concentrating on keeping my right arm more away from my body so it can swing freely.

now that high school basketball season is over with i should be able to get alot more practice in.

DCP

 

[sjm]

i know you folks will think i am crazy, but the way mark wilson changed my mechanics just puts too much pressure/stress/tension/weight on my front (left) leg, and i just absolutely cannot get comfortable. he has my stance so open that my left leg just cant handle the weight. when i use his stance all i seem to be concentrating on is holding my left leg still, not letting it move, and i just cant do it. i dont have the build of an offensive lineman, my leg is unable to withstand the weight, and as a result i can feel my body moving just oh so slightly when i shoot. as a result, i miss.

the snooker stance possibly might be the better way for me to go. or else a middle of the road stance. but the mark wilson stance just doesnt work for me.

just thought i would ramble on during this rainy sunday afternoon.
DCP

Surely, some of Mark's other students have reached the same impasse that you appear to have reached. If you honestly feel you;ve made the sincerest possible attmept to follow Mark's instructions, you must now ask him what alternatives there are for those unable to adapt to the stance you say doens't work for you.

I think it's almost certain that Mark wil know what adjustments to suggest, but if he is completely inflexible, get yourself a new instructor. An instructor that would demand that you use a specific stance knowing it brings you physical pain is dispensable.

 

[Teacherman]

Did it ever occur to you that very few of the best players you see play like Mark??????

 

[Celtic]

I hate open stances, my feet are very close together when I shoot a normal shot I am not reaching for (reaching for a shot my right foot is off the ground). 6 inches maybe, not all that far apart at all. I think a open stance is greatly overrated and is not required for balance. Generally speaking my legs are fairly straight as well, not much flex at the knees. If what Mark Wilson is teaching you does not feel right then drop it asap, pool is a game where personal style is the most important thing, not copying others techniques. There is no ideal stroke, for every pro player out there you can say has the "textbook stroke" there are 5 times as many players that have unorthedox traits in their game and still play pro level. Do what a coach tells you if you want to get good, do what comes natural if you want to get great.

 

[bruin70]

i know you folks will think i am crazy, but the way mark wilson changed my mechanics just puts too much pressure/stress/tension/weight on my front (left) leg, and i just absolutely cannot get comfortable. he has my stance so open that my left leg just cant handle the weight. when i use his stance all i seem to be concentrating on is holding my left leg still, not letting it move, and i just cant do it. i dont have the build of an offensive lineman, my leg is unable to withstand the weight, and as a result i can feel my body moving just oh so slightly when i shoot. as a result, i miss.

the snooker stance possibly might be the better way for me to go. or else a middle of the road stance. but the mark wilson stance just doesnt work for me.

just thought i would ramble on during this rainy sunday afternoon.
DCP

at least you were able to recognize what works and what doesn't.....in spite of who tells you what.

 

[Zims Rack]

Mark's stance is pretty wide open, I didn't realize that he taught others to open their stance up that much. I'm sure that Mark's course is geared around the stance. So if you change your stance (other than what Mark taught) then everything else he taught you will not be as accurate. Make sense? I've played with Mark, watched him shoot and have seen him give lessons (briefly), he's a great instructor, dynamite spokesperson for our sport of the cueing arts, but I disagree with some of the things he teaches. There are scientific reasons why we (BSACA) don't teach an open stance and muscle fatigue, knee and shoulder pain are just a few. Email me and I'll explain more if interested.

Zim

 

[woody_968]

So if you change your stance (other than what Mark taught) then everything else he taught you will not be as accurate. Make sense?

Actually, no, it doesnt. Mark does play with a very open stance, and does encourage an open stance. But to say that not having the forward foot in his position makes everything else he would teach not be as accurate is, well, inaccurate

Im sure my stance is not as open as marks, slightly more open than I used to be, but not like his. But I have still seen great improvements in my game due to the other things he has had me working on.

I agree with those that suggested speaking with mark, I think that is the best thing DCP could do.

I just dont want to see DCP think none of what mark has shown him will help if he doesnt fully adhere to the exact stance.

 

[drivermaker]

I think it's the blue cloth.....maybe even the Jacoby.

 

[Egg McDogit]

i know you folks will think i am crazy, but the way mark wilson changed my mechanics just puts too much pressure/stress/tension/weight on my front (left) leg, and i just absolutely cannot get comfortable. he has my stance so open that my left leg just cant handle the weight. when i use his stance all i seem to be concentrating on is holding my left leg still, not letting it move, and i just cant do it. i dont have the build of an offensive lineman, my leg is unable to withstand the weight, and as a result i can feel my body moving just oh so slightly when i shoot. as a result, i miss.

the snooker stance possibly might be the better way for me to go. or else a middle of the road stance. but the mark wilson stance just doesnt work for me.

just thought i would ramble on during this rainy sunday afternoon.
DCP

..
why not just play around with your stance and find something
that works then?

based on the description of your problem, try closing up
your stance a little, and twisting your hips (may involve
turning your leading knee in) and/or twisting your
shoulders to get in line with the shot. that should create
some room for you to stroke, although it may still tire out
our legs. and on that note, suck it up!

peace

 

[vapoolplayer]

I think it's the blue cloth.....maybe even the Jacoby.

are you suggesting that maybe an exorcism should be attempted?

VAP

 

[braves85]

Does it ever occur to you that Mark is one of the best pool instructors in the world?? Not only have people all around the world come to visit him for lessons, but he has even helped some of the best in this game to improve their stroke. so if you have a problem on how Mark teaches, you are not following everything he taught you and are not working on it hard enough.

 

[Egg McDogit]

Does it ever occur to you that Mark is one of the best pool instructors in the world?? Not only have people all around the world come to visit him for lessons, but he has even helped some of the best in this game to improve their stroke. so if you have a problem on how Mark teaches, you are not following everything he taught you and are not working on it hard enough.

...
haha brutal. DCP my advice is to find a mirror and stroke
in front of it until you find a comfortable stance/alignment
that works for you.

peace

 

[vapoolplayer]

Does it ever occur to you that Mark is one of the best pool instructors in the world?? Not only have people all around the world come to visit him for lessons, but he has even helped some of the best in this game to improve their stroke. so if you have a problem on how Mark teaches, you are not following everything he taught you and are not working on it hard enough.

well at least you made yourself look like an idiot on your first post, and didn't make us wait 50 or 60 to find out.

VAP

 

[sjm]

Does it ever occur to you that Mark is one of the best pool instructors in the world?? Not only have people all around the world come to visit him for lessons, but he has even helped some of the best in this game to improve their stroke. so if you have a problem on how Mark teaches, you are not following everything he taught you and are not working on it hard enough.

I see it's your first post, so welcome to the forum, and I hope your participation provides a rewarding expereince for you.

I hate to argue with you as you're the new kid on the block, but I do not agree with what you've written here.

Rest assured that Mark's fine teaching credentials are well known to all who post regularly on the forum, but the suggesttion that Mark, or any teacher of pool or any other subject, can succeed with every student is unreasonable.

A teacher whose methods usually work is deserving of high praise, but your suggestion that those students who that teacher fails to reach should bear the blame for not learning is, in my opinion, poorly reasoned.

Anyway, as I said, welcome to the forum, and I look forward to your posts.

 

[Blackjack]

i know you folks will think i am crazy, but the way mark wilson changed my mechanics just puts too much pressure/stress/tension/weight on my front (left) leg, and i just absolutely cannot get comfortable. he has my stance so open that my left leg just cant handle the weight. when i use his stance all i seem to be concentrating on is holding my left leg still, not letting it move, and i just cant do it. i dont have the build of an offensive lineman, my leg is unable to withstand the weight, and as a result i can feel my body moving just oh so slightly when i shoot. as a result, i miss.

the snooker stance possibly might be the better way for me to go. or else a middle of the road stance. but the mark wilson stance just doesnt work for me.

just thought i would ramble on during this rainy sunday afternoon.
DCP

DCP,
I watched this thread for a while before responding. Being an instructor, I have had this happen before with my students. WIthout comparing experiences I will point out two basic areas of the student/teacher relationship that are vitally important to make that relationship work.

The first is patience. The instructor needs to be patient with the student to allow the student to develop and mature at their own pace. Patience is also required of the student. Alot of what we do as instructors is trial and error. We assess, diagnose, prescribe a remedy, evaluate it, and if need be - we go through the process a few times before we get it right.

Many times if something is changed in your stance or stroke, the flaw being corrected is powered by bad habits. Not only must the flaw be dealt with, but you also must address the habits linked with the flaw. This does not heal itself overnight. Sometimes it takes a while. The pain you are experiencing can be merely "growing pains" as you struggle to unlearn the old habits. That is just part of the process. The new habit needs to be planted like a seed. It must be nurtured and cared for properly for it to grow. At first the seed will sprout and it won't be very strong, but overtime it will grow taller and stronger. It is the same with any skill you apply to your game. When you understand this process, then you will understand why patience is a two way street in this relationship.

The second is trust. As a student, you should trust not only the instructor (in this case Mark Wilson) but you must also trust his words, his knowledge, his judgment, and his methods. You basically gave him your stroke/stance and put faith in his abilities as an instructor to make it better. If you are questioning his judgment now, then your faith in him has been weakened. So has the faith in everything he showed you.

This means you now have a choice. You can either toss it all aside and look elsewhere for instruction - OR - you can take measures to re-establish and stengthen your faith in everything that your instructor showed you. It is my advice to NOT take the easier softer way. A lot of times our character building is lost in our rush for comfort.

I would say talk it over with Mark before talking it over with people on a pool forum. Here you have a chance of getting advice that feeds the growth and strengthening of your game, but you also run the risk of getting advice that will feed and justify the bad habits that will continue to send you down a path of disappointment. Take a few days off, catch your breath and start all over again. Sometimes that's all you need. You made a great choice in instructors and in my opinion you made a fantastic investment in your game. Make it count.

 

[woody_968]

Well put SJM.

Just a couple of things I would add to that. If a lesson or lessons dont help a student (after ample practice time) there are only a few conclusions that could be drawn.

1. The student doesnt/didnt practice what was taught or practice it enough to give it a chance.
I really dont think this is the case with DCP, I get the impression he is willing to put in the work.

2. The student didnt really understand what the instructor was trying to get across. He may have thought he did, but it didnt really click.
If this would happen to be the case the student would have to let the instructor know there was a problem. This would help the student (further clarification) and the insturctor because he would have to find a better/different way to present the material.

3. The method just simply doesnt work for the student.
Again communication with the instructor would help here so that the instructor could either make a different recommendation based on the knew information or recommend another instructor whos teaching style may better fit the student.

In either of the last two cases the key is further communication with the instructor, which has already been suggested in this thread.

 

[Zims Rack]

DCP,
I watched this thread for a while before responding. Being an instructor, I have had this happen before with my students. WIthout comparing experiences I will point out two basic areas of the student/teacher relationship that are vitally important to make that relationship work.

The first is patience. The instructor needs to be patient with the student to allow the student to develop and mature at their own pace. Patience is also required of the student. Alot of what we do as instructors is trial and error. We assess, diagnose, prescribe a remedy, evaluate it, and if need be - we go through the process a few times before we get it right.

Many times if something is changed in your stance or stroke, the flaw being corrected is powered by bad habits. Not only must the flaw be dealt with, but you also must address the habits linked with the flaw. This does not heal itself overnight. Sometimes it takes a while. The pain you are experiencing can be merely "growing pains" as you struggle to unlearn the old habits. That is just part of the process. The new habit needs to be planted like a seed. It must be nurtured and cared for properly for it to grow. At first the seed will sprout and it won't be very strong, but overtime it will grow taller and stronger. It is the same with any skill you apply to your game. When you understand this process, then you will understand why patience is a two way street in this relationship.

The second is trust. As a student, you should trust not only the instructor (in this case Mark Wilson) but you must also trust his words, his knowledge, his judgment, and his methods. You basically gave him your stroke/stance and put faith in his abilities as an instructor to make it better. If you are questioning his judgment now, then your faith in him has been weakened. So has the faith in everything he showed you.

This means you now have a choice. You can either toss it all aside and look elsewhere for instruction - OR - you can take measures to re-establish and stengthen your faith in everything that your instructor showed you. It is my advice to NOT take the easier softer way. A lot of times our character building is lost in our rush for comfort.

I would say talk it over with Mark before talking it over with people on a pool forum. Here you have a chance of getting advice that feeds the growth and strengthening of your game, but you also run the risk of getting advice that will feed and justify the bad habits that will continue to send you down a path of disappointment. Take a few days off, catch your breath and start all over again. Sometimes that's all you need. You made a great choice in instructors and in my opinion you made a fantastic investment in your game. Make it count.

Blackjack.... very well said! I couldn't agree more!

Zim