masse

E

eze123

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So I've been into trying some of the more artistic shots, like force follow, and I'm pretty close to nailing them, need some more time. The weird thing is I can get some pretty good masse action on the ball. Before I switched over to 3C I could get some sick english on the ball on a pool table and impress friends. Controlling it is another matter, but I could do it. So I bought a Stealth masse cue cheap, with a really hard tip, and I don't care if it's not a great stick, I'm not trying to be a champ, it's just to entertain myself, shits and giggles.
I get the idea that a masse cue has a hard tip because it transfers more power to the ball, but I can't get much with it. I get much more action with my regular cue. I'm thinking it's because the tip is softer and gets more friction? I think the tip is so hard that I don't get the drag on the ball I need. Is it better to start with a soft tip and move up with practice, or is there just an adjustment to make with a hard tip or what?
 
Just bumping up this thread - nobody has any masse tips? Bob Jewett? Does Yow post on this board anymore?
 
eze123 said:
So I've been into trying some of the more artistic shots, like force follow, and I'm pretty close to nailing them, need some more time. The weird thing is I can get some pretty good masse action on the ball. Before I switched over to 3C I could get some sick english on the ball on a pool table and impress friends. Controlling it is another matter, but I could do it. So I bought a Stealth masse cue cheap, with a really hard tip, and I don't care if it's not a great stick, I'm not trying to be a champ, it's just to entertain myself, shits and giggles.
I get the idea that a masse cue has a hard tip because it transfers more power to the ball, but I can't get much with it. I get much more action with my regular cue. I'm thinking it's because the tip is softer and gets more friction? I think the tip is so hard that I don't get the drag on the ball I need. Is it better to start with a soft tip and move up with practice, or is there just an adjustment to make with a hard tip or what?
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The masse tips used by the European artistic billiards players are quite soft and thick and large, like 15-16mm. Artistic shots are a separate matter from playing masse in a 3-C game, and require among other things a table owner who doesn't mind holes in his cloth.

Most masse shots that are practical at 3-C and the small games can be done with your regular cue. I don't think I've ever seen a top player change cues for a masse shot.
 
Bob Jewett said:
The masse tips used by the European artistic billiards players are quite soft and thick and large, like 15-16mm. Artistic shots are a separate matter from playing masse in a 3-C game, and require among other things a table owner who doesn't mind holes in his cloth.

Most masse shots that are practical at 3-C and the small games can be done with your regular cue. I don't think I've ever seen a top player change cues for a masse shot.
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The owner of the table in this case is me, so I don't have to worry about that so much. I put down a little 8X8 really thin plastic square and I have some extra cloth that I put over it so I can hammer away pretty well without damaging my table.
And I'm not talking about practical shots, I can do light masses. I was more talking about really hammering, like more difficult artistic shots, just for fun. I thought Eric Yow was on this board a year or so back saying that for those a hard tip was better because it transmitted more power to the object ball. Aren't most masse/jump type sticks outfitted with phenolic or hide tips? The tip on this cue is larger and thicker than my playing tip, but harder...?
 
eze123 said:
The owner of the table in this case is me, so I don't have to worry about that so much. I put down a little 8X8 really thin plastic square and I have some extra cloth that I put over it so I can hammer away pretty well without damaging my table.
And I'm not talking about practical shots, I can do light masses. I was more talking about really hammering, like more difficult artistic shots, just for fun. I thought Eric Yow was on this board a year or so back saying that for those a hard tip was better because it transmitted more power to the object ball. Aren't most masse/jump type sticks outfitted with phenolic or hide tips? The tip on this cue is larger and thicker than my playing tip, but harder...?
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I think that jump sticks are very, very different from masse cues. Try a softer tip.
 
I knew I wasn't crazy - this was the thread where Yow was talking about preferring a harder tip. I guess I'll have to experiment a little.
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http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=57031
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I think the recommended tip for masses is softer.
__________________
Bob Jewett
SF Billiard Academy
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To the contrary, Bob, I use a harder tip and find it better for masse. Purely theoretically, when you make a hard hit on a ball the tip will compress; the softer the tip the more the compression; the more the compression the more energy is taken away from the hit. With the inconsistency in hit power for each subsequent strike, the softer the tip the harder it will be to hit the same shot twice in a row. Moreover, for the big masse shots, you want all the consistent power you can muster, and so, a hard tip is more beneficial. IMO I use a Sniper on my masse cue. It's hard enough and consistent, yet holds chalk better than most. If I wasn't using a Sniper, I'd use triangle, like many of the other artistic pros.

yow!
__________________
www.ericyow.com
 
Here what the HOF master Masse Cuebuilder [Dieckman] stated about tip on masse cue

BUILDING A MASSE CUE- Part One

First of all just what is a masse cue? Well, it is heavier than a regular cue [26 oz. or 740 depending on which system you use--One Ounce Equals 28.4 Grams for your future reference]; it is also shorter than a regular cue [44 inches is a good length or 111.75 cm--again, the conversion factor is One Inch Equals 2.54 cm or 25.4 mm].

Also the tip wants to be soft to medium hard and somewhat large.

Years ago Carl Conlon told me the European standard for tip size for this type of cue was 17mm but I make mine about 14.5 to 14.75mm as the largest tip that I can find is only 15mm.

Notice that brass ferrule are been use on Masse Cue more!

Maybe Jamison Neu will give us his opinion on the subject / matter.

Or maybe Gene from Crown Cues will let us know what tip his customer are asking to be put on Crown Masse Cue!
 
billiardshot said:
Notice that brass ferrule are been use on Masse Cue more!

Maybe Jamison Neu will give us his opinion on the subject / matter.

Or maybe Gene from Crown Cues will let us know what tip his customer are asking to be put on Crown Masse Cue!
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Hi Bob,

The brass ferrule and Sniper tip have definitely been the favorites this year. The 15mm tip and heavier masse' cues haven't been very popular. Most have been wanting only 24 to 25 ounce cues.
 
billiardshot said:
Thank, Gene on your reply. Are your Masse Shaft taper or Conical? Also are your Brass Ferrule threaded or slip on, plus what are the Ferrule length?
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My standard masse' cues have a .950 joint and the shaft is not conical, but is very stiff. My brass ferrules are usually a little over 14mm long and not threaded. I make them fit tightly on the tenon.
 
Checkout this link to see video of players using Crown Masse cue:

http://www.crowncues.biz/fb.html

here a link showing his tips and ferrule options:

http://www.crowncues.biz/opt.html

Maybe I can email ciba with the question what tips their members use when performing artistique masse shots.

I wonder how many different masse shafts with different tips are carry by Artistique players?

eze123, do you know what tips or tip, Miguel Torres, use for masse shot?
 
No idea. Let us know what you find out. All I know is I'm going to have to get a softer tip because the hard isn't doing much for me.
 
i have recently had one of our local cuemakers do me a masse cue, 44" just plain maple. the tip he installed isnt working for me (some hard tip for jump cues i think). im planning to try sniper soon :)
 
same boat as me, you get a masse stick and it has a rock hard tip already on it, so you assume it must be right, but it doesn't work. Same thing, too, they same to be putting the same hard tips on any jump/break/masse cue, just doesn't work for masse. So why are they putting these rock hard tips on? Good thing for this board - I'd hammered away at it for awhile and thought it was my fault.
 
Sorry it took so long to get here I have been on the road. So the question is why you don't like your new masse cue's action? From what you said I am thinking that you are trying to hit huge masse shots with carom balls?

Well truth be told whether you have a soft tip or a hard tip you can make it happen. I like soft farrels with a med/hard tip Everest tips are my choice. Like you I could hit them better with my playing cue. That is until I had played with my Dieckman.

The most important part of getting real huge masse (no Waxy pads) is, you must be able to hit the ball very hard and precisely towards a center ball hit. Most masse playing fools like me, think in order to hit max spin you must hit outside on the edge of the ball. This is for the people that cheat with silicon "waxy pads."

When you hit the outside edge most of the energy (friction) is lost by the squirting effect. If you strike the ball close to the center it absorbs most of the energy and busts loose spinning. You must be strong and keep your stroke hand rigid. It is nothing like billiards to hit the huge masse shots. I suggest you use a Everest tip cause it will save you money and waisted time from replacing lessor tips. Thanks Bob.
Jamison
 
JamisonNeu said:
Sorry it took so long to get here I have been on the road. So the question is why you don't like your new masse cue's action? From what you said I am thinking that you are trying to hit huge masse shots with carom balls?

Well truth be told whether you have a soft tip or a hard tip you can make it happen. I like soft farrels with a med/hard tip Everest tips are my choice. Like you I could hit them better with my playing cue. That is until I had played with my Dieckman.

The most important part of getting real huge masse (no Waxy pads) is, you must be able to hit the ball very hard and precisely towards a center ball hit. Most masse playing fools like me, think in order to hit max spin you must hit outside on the edge of the ball. This is for the people that cheat with silicon "waxy pads."

When you hit the outside edge most of the energy (friction) is lost by the squirting effect. If you strike the ball close to the center it absorbs most of the energy and busts loose spinning. You must be strong and keep your stroke hand rigid. It is nothing like billiards to hit the huge masse shots. I suggest you use a Everest tip cause it will save you money and waisted time from replacing lessor tips. Thanks Bob.
Jamison
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Fascinating..... just... too damn.... fascinating! This is just all the reasons why people like Jamison is needed in this sport. Hands Down! He's just with the power and the intellect of these impecable masse shots. I really don't see why he should just continue persuing his trick shot artistry while persuing others on the time.

BTW, eze123, play small games. :shrug: :killingme: I hear small masses are good there.
 
SlickRick_PCS said:
Fascinating..... just... too damn.... fascinating! This is just all the reasons why people like Jamison is needed in this sport. Hands Down! He's just with the power and the intellect of these impecable masse shots. I really don't see why he should just continue persuing his trick shot artistry while persuing others on the time.

BTW, eze123, play small games. :shrug: :killingme: I hear small masses are good there.
Click to expand...


What??? I must not be that smart, I can't follow your post at all. What do you mean when you say while persuing others on the time? The part about "He's just with the power and the intellect of these impecable masse shots" again I must not be that bright I don't understand this statement?
Thanks for the stuff I could understand.

Jamison
 
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