Any difference in playability between the measles and red circle ball could easily be due to the different resin used to make each. The measles ball is made with the higher end Super Pro resin, same as the ball set with that name.
Measles cueball vs Red Circle cueball weight differences
- Thread starter cubc
- Start date
Any difference in playability between the measles and red circle ball could easily be due to the different resin used to make each. The measles ball is made with the higher end Super Pro resin, same as the ball set with that name.
This debate interests me because I just spent some time with Dennis Orculo (SP?) on Saturday thanx to Jay and Tony:grin:
While talking with Dennis during a break about my piss poor draw stroke, he alluded to the fact that he likes the measle ball better than the red dot ball because it works/moves better.
While talking with Dennis during a break about my piss poor draw stroke, he alluded to the fact that he likes the measle ball better than the red dot ball because it works/moves better.
This debate interests me because I just spent some time with Dennis Orculo (SP?) on Saturday thanx to Jay and Tony:grin:
While talking with Dennis during a break about my piss poor draw stroke, he alluded to the fact that he likes the measle ball better than the red dot ball because it works/moves better.
The measles ball is a better quality cue ball than the red circle, which is essentially Aramith's generic replacement cue ball made with a lower quality resin and does not come with any Aramith ball sets that I'm aware of. The measles ball comes with the Super Pro TV set and is made with the same Super Pro resin.
According to Aramith, the red logo ball (Super Aramith Pro cue ball or squiggly S ball as you put it) that comes with the Super Pro set and the measles ball (Super Aramith Pro Cup cue ball) that comes with the Super Pro TV set are both made with the same Super Pro resin. This makes sense since the Super Pro sets (both the TV and traditional) are matched sets.
Yes, you can save some money because the red logo ball is typically sold for less, but not $30 less. More like $12 - $15 less. Not sure why except perhaps people are willing to pay more for the ball they see on TV.
The red circle ball is made with the Aramith Super resin, which is down the scale from the Super Pro resin.
The red dot CB (as opposed to the red circle) is made with the Aramith Premier resin, also a lower price point.
I myself have at times felt there was a difference in how the red logo and measles balls played but this could be just due to differences in how their graphics make them look like they are reacting.
Also, any comparisons must take into account whether the CBs in question are matched to the set. Say you have a brand new Super Aramith Pro set with the original red logo ball from that set. That ball should be very close in weight to the other balls in that set because the set is matched. If you bring in a measles ball that you bought solo, it may play different simply because it might be lighter or heavier than the rest of the balls in the set.
The only sets I know for sure that are matched are the Aramith Tournaments, Super Pros, and Centennials (with the blue circle CB, made by Aramith for Brunswick and the same as the Super Pros except for the graphics).
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Funny, I just weighed the Brunswick blue dot, Aramith red logo and Aramith measle ball and all weighed 168 grams
I've got the same weights coming off my scale also.
I have a ramp and found that the measles ball travels further than the other cue balls stated.
Could it be that there is a more dense layer of resin towards the outer shell of the ball giving it this characteristic?
Multilayered ball?
Yes, a multilayered ball. I believe this is the case. How else would it travel further with the same weight? There must be more mass towards the outside shell of the ball than others.
The golf ball has been manipulated for a couple decades now to help control spin for those who put too much/too little on it. Why not the cue ball in pool?
One way, which may or may not apply to the way you did your testing, is that if you test with a ramp, the ball path gets compressed over several trials and gets faster. You might get a diamond more roll on a lag-speed shot.
you really know alot of stuff..:wink:
I know I'm a little late to the discussion, but I have weighed the aramith measle ball, the aramith red circle, and the centennial blue circle, all purchased new, and weighed new. All 3 were only 1 or 2 grams different in weight. 2 grams is about .07 oz.
This surprised me a lot. I had always been in the school of thought there was a difference, and I ended up proving myself wrong.
It would seem, that wear on the balls would be the biggest difference on how they acted at the pool hall.
Another factor would be our own bias. If we want the x ball to be hard to draw, we can make it hard to draw.
Since I had done my little experiment, I've quit worrying about what cue ball I'm using, because, to me, it no longer really makes any difference. You'd be amazed at how much that alone has improved my game.
Peace and good shooting to all....
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I still haven't had the chance to grab a scale, but I'm finding the opposite to people here and closer to what both Hatch and Orcollo have said; the measel ball is easier to move around the table (and lighter).
I don't pay much attention to the standard cueballs so I'm not sure if they are Red Dots or Red Circles. It is whatever came with the sets the owner bought. He purchased the measel balls in addition as far as I know.
I'll have to get some pics and weights.
I don't pay much attention to the standard cueballs so I'm not sure if they are Red Dots or Red Circles. It is whatever came with the sets the owner bought. He purchased the measel balls in addition as far as I know.
I'll have to get some pics and weights.
This is a very good post (especially the highlighted part) showing a rational mind open to change.
pj
chgo
Good post. For those interested, a good video and more info on this topic can be found here:
Regards,
Dave
I did a test at a local pool hall with a large selection of balls from different tables. Here are the results from my February '12 BD article:
To see how much ball weight can vary in typical conditions, I took an accurate digital scale to my local pool hall (“Match Ups” in Fort Collins, Colorado). I weighed the CB and randomly selected OBs (and the 1-ball specifically) in each of eight Valley bar boxes with the assistance and permission of the owners. (Thanks Mike and Nicole!) The CB weights were fairly consistent with an average of 5.89 oz, a minimum of 5.78 oz, and a maximum of 5.93 oz. The OB weights were lighter (2-3 percent on average) and less consistent with an average of 5.75 oz, a minimum of 5.47 oz and a maximum of 5.89 oz. The lightest OB was a 1-ball, which makes sense based on the extra abuse it takes (but this could also just be coincidence). If the heaviest CB were paired up with the lightest OB, the percentage difference would be about 8%. Luckily, this is still much less than the 25% difference demonstrated with the pool and carom balls in HSV B.49. However, the weight-difference effects in this article would definitely be noticeable with this particular CB-OB combination, especially to a good and observant player.
Regards,
Dave
I think you might be referring to the excellent post on this topic from sfleinen that is quoted on my cue ball types resource page.
Regards,
Dave
Check out the articles and technical proofs here:
Ball elasticity is quantified by the "coefficient of restitution." The technical details are covered in the TP doc. The articles show the effects on actual play ... in particular how inelasticity affects the 90 and 30 degree rules.
Regards,
Dave
People seem to be neglecting the concept of Moment of Inertia. I learned this in one of my physics courses, and I'm certain it can be applied to these balls. People are arguing either of the balls has a core density vs a outer shell density (solid sphere vs hollow sphere). I was just wondering what your thoughts are on this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_moments_of_inertia#cite_note-serway-0
I don't know how much moment of inertia varies for equal weight and size pool balls (if at all), but that is an interesting question. The differences wouldn't have an effect on the elasticity discussions, but it certainly would affect how cue ball spin is imparted and how it changes during a shot. The resulting path of a cue ball after colliding with an OB would also be different, except for a stun shot down the tangent line. However, I would think that the differences in moments of inertia (for equal size and weight balls) would be insignificant.
Regards,
Dave
It is more or less trivial to test (or at least to compare) moment of inertia with pool balls. Just set up a long half-ball scratch shot and then test ball A against ball B and B against A. The ball that goes through straighter has mass more towards the outside. Of course you have to make sure that the balls have equal total mass.
I don't think there is any significant variation in density of the ball material versus radius. It's possible, but it would be hard to engineer. The ball would have to have a light core and a heavy shell (or the reverse if you want spin to have less effect) so you need two quite different materials. The core would have to be centered precisely.
On the other hand, in the 1970s I saw a "blue circle" cue ball that had broken open. It had a core that looked dull and chalky about the size of a golf ball. The core was not centered. At the time "blue circle" was everyone's favorite cue ball. I had bought one myself. It was lopsided.
