Men vs Women

[JolietJames]

If you look past whatever advantages or disadvantages one sex has over the other, we still come down to one fact.
Men are stealing opportunities that belong to women. You cannot draw a line and claim it's ok for men to compete against women HERE, but not HERE.
If a top male HS track athlete decides to switch to the girl's team, he has a physical advantage that may allow him to break records, win scholarships, etc. to which he is not entitled. That is a fact. It has happened. We don't need to quantify it. If it happens once, there is something wrong.
If we say there is no advantage in a particular arena of competition, the only solution is for it to be open to all.

It is 100% hypocritical to support men competing with women in a sport/game and at the same time be against the sport becoming completely open with no divisions.

 

[Bob Jewett]

What sort of restrictions exclude players?

They have to be active recently with some number of games in the last some number of months. That was the reason many Chinese players fell off the list -- complete Covid lockdowns there.

 

[mikepage]

What sort of restrictions exclude players?

Two things. First those lists require 300 and not 200 games. The second one is the bigger one. To avoid having long retired players on the “top player” lists, we exclude players with fewer than 150 games last 2 years. This is normally not a stringent requirement. But if Asian players are not traveling and we’re not accessing the games they ARE playing, the lists can exclude many top active players.

 

[Leigh]

Female player weighing in: men are better at most sports (besides some long-range shooting in which women have the advantage.) Men are better at pool. Probably because men have more spatial awareness (backed by science). Look at the top females compared to the top males. There is a difference. I do not see why this is such a big deal. We are different and have different strengths - men tend to do better with almost all physical pursuits. Women have the advantage when it comes to flexibility, pain tolerance, and they live longer. Whatever.
Biological males should not be in female sports. Basically, it's like saying "See. Men are better than women at being a woman." Ridiculous. I am pro gay rights in every single way and do not care how someone wants to identify - but it is anti-feminist to allow men to compete in women's sports. Rant over. Now that I got that out of my system - I am happy to play any of you in pool.

 

[Freddy Fuzzmore]

No matter what side of the debate you are on, this is becoming more and more controversial, more and more players are walking out, and i think the solution to make everyone happy is to have a transgender bracket in sports.

Like the Special Olympics. I'll watch it.

 

[justnum]

If a pro woman entered a man's tournament like Jean Balukas, all the men got whiny and kicked her out. Something similar happened to her on the women's tour.

Men can't handle losing to a woman. Women don't like losing to the same woman a lot.

Its a fair treatment based on the history of billiards.

 

[markvl]

The cue sports governing bodies should commission a study to look at those statistics and compile real datum. We can look at the current differences in talent levels and then look over time. We can include biological men, biological women and those that self identify as transgender male and female. That way we can see the stats. We can do additional studies related to differences in culture and race as well. There should be some federal grant money available to do those studies.

 

[23DenaliBDE]

If a pro woman entered a man's tournament like Jean Balukas, all the men got whiny and kicked her out. Something similar happened to her on the women's tour.

Men can't handle losing to a woman. Women don't like losing to the same woman a lot.

Its a fair treatment based on the history of billiards.

Not only am I positive you're single, you've been assaulted by a woman on more than one occasion haven't you?

 

[justnum]

Not only am I positive you're single, you've been assaulted by a woman on more than one occasion haven't you?

If you want to hear more PM me.

Main forum is definitely not the place for relationship gossip. Its not even welcome in NPR.

 

[Justaneng]

If a pro woman entered a man's tournament like Jean Balukas, all the men got whiny and kicked her out. Something similar happened to her on the women's tour.

Men can't handle losing to a woman. Women don't like losing to the same woman a lot.

Its a fair treatment based on the history of billiards.

Jean Balukas is a really good name to bring up in this thread in terms of peak abilities. However her exploits are now 4 or 5 decades old and I’m not sure how applicable they are today in terms of inclusion and openness of having women in pool.

The last relic of that era, and the bridge from 80’s pool to today, is Earl, and so long as he doesn’t have to hug his opponent he doesn’t mind facing them no matter the gender!

….and I have it on good word that at least 40% of the US Mosconi Cup team would be in for a very rough ride if they ever made a “women don’t belong at a pool table” type statement, in any context, ever. Like, Russian Mafia hits may be involved.

 

[justnum]

Jean Balukas is a really good name to bring up in this thread in terms of peak abilities. However her exploits are now 4 or 5 decades old and I’m not sure how applicable they are today in terms of inclusion and openness of having women in pool.

The last relic of that era, and the bridge from 80’s pool to today, is Earl, and so long as he doesn’t have to hug his opponent he doesn’t mind facing them no matter the gender!

….and I have it on good word that at least 40% of the US Mosconi Cup team would be in for a very rough ride if they ever made a “women don’t belong at a pool table” type statement, in any context, ever. Like, Russian Mafia hits may be involved.

Its history. History is always worth talking about, always.

In terms pro players that have been banned from a world tournament worth mentioning:

Jean, Ciscero, Fedor, Jasmin, Kristina, Marge Fefi

Of the list 1 is for gender, 1 for race, 1 for unsanctioned play and 3 for having Russia as the birthplace on the passport.

In statistics there are trends, the trend shows there are always new reasons to ban players. The trend also shows that more players will be banned each time.

Proving the signs of cultural progression are not the same as stating it.

The WPA/members decides the culture for players. Somehow ACBS became the center of a debate for all players.

Asian countries are even more specific about what can be said and what can be done. ACBS represents Asian government interests.

If you only lived in America you wouldn't understand cultural and individual repression in Asian nations.

 

[Justaneng]

If you only lived in America you wouldn't understand cultural and individual repression in Asian nations.

Funny enough I live 6 months out of every year living in China. I can quarantine and take daily covid tests like a champ! Not representative of all of Asia though by a long shot.

 

[trpallen]

Hey, new here, so here goes- why are there 2 division's? M or F. Dude wants to wear a skirt, ok, whatever.

 

[23DenaliBDE]

Because adding a skirt doesn't subtract gender differences

Hey, new here, so here goes- why are there 2 division's? M or F. Dude wants to wear a skirt, ok, whatever

 

[23DenaliBDE]

No I

If you want to hear more PM me.

Main forum is definitely not the place for relationship gossip. Its not even welcome in NPR.

do not want to hear more about the women who have assaulted you. Thank you for the offer

 

[sjm]

If a pro woman entered a man's tournament like Jean Balukas, all the men got whiny and kicked her out. Something similar happened to her on the women's tour.

Men can't handle losing to a woman. Women don't like losing to the same woman a lot.

Its a fair treatment based on the history of billiards.

Any time you post about women's pool, you get it wrong, and usually VERY wrong.

Jean was always welcome in the men's World 14.1 Championship and other events having both a men's and a women's division but was ultimately not to permitted to play in both the men's and the women's division. The biggest reason was because of the scheduling problems that it created. It had less to do with chauvinism, and more to do with ensuring that the men's schedule wasn't compromised by Jean's unavailability for matches. I was there and can personally vouch that this was a problem when a men's and women's event ran concurrently.

As for your other post that claims that Margaret Fefilova is Russian, you are again mistaken as she is from Belarus.

If you think Jean was kicked off the WPBA, as you suggest, you are once again mistaken. Jean retired, plain and simple.

 

[justnum]

Any time you post about women's pool, you get it wrong, and usually VERY wrong.

Jean was always welcome in the men's World 14.1 Championship and other events having both a men's and a women's division but was ultimately not to permitted to play in both the men's and the women's division. The biggest reason was because of the scheduling problems that it created. It had less to do with chauvinism, and more to do with ensuring that the men's schedule wasn't compromised by Jean's unavailability for matches. I was there and can personally vouch that this was a problem when a men's and women's event ran concurrently.

As for your other post that claims that Margaret Fefilova is Russian, you are again mistaken as she is from Belarus.

If you think Jean was kicked off the WPBA, as you suggest, you are once again mistaken. Jean retired, plain and simple.

Jean retired I agree. The reasons for retiring are interesting for this thread.

Jean Balukas - why did she stop?

I am just curious is anyone knows why she stoped being as excellent as she was. Does anyone know why she has/had no interest in the ITP King of the Hill HOF. Did something bad happen in the past? Get a bad taste for the sport? Didnt she stop playing really young? I mean I hear there was just no...

forums.azbilliards.com

 

[skogstokig]

Two things. First those lists require 300 and not 200 games. The second one is the bigger one. To avoid having long retired players on the “top player” lists, we exclude players with fewer than 150 games last 2 years. This is normally not a stringent requirement. But if Asian players are not traveling and we’re not accessing the games they ARE playing, the lists can exclude many top active players.

just out of curiosity, which are the top 5 players that are "in the shadow" and what's their fargo? i guess wu jiaqing and zheng but who else?

 

[PoolFoolKBH]

It’s amazing that this used to be a topic every other month 10, 15, and 20 years ago. Now with the recent walkout of a player due to having to play a transgender woman, can we revisit the age-old debate? If there is “no physical reason that a man would have an inherent advantage in pool,” then a transgender woman in a women’s division shouldn't matter. If it does matter, then we revisit the age old debate.

I just read a post from a woman about the unfairness of the transgender women’s participation and hints that there may be subtle physical attributes that we don’t consider that gives a biological advantage. It’s not a coincidence that I made this same argument 25 years ago when there was no transgender participation controversy and got a squashing. But now we have people suggesting to use Fedex like it was never mentioned before.

Freddie <~~~ obscurely referencing

In a conversation I had with billiard great 'Bakersfield Boby' Hernandez concerning this very subject about 20 years ago, he said (and I'm paraphrasing) the reason that women aren't as accurate or consistent in the amount of table runs or obtaining their desired position, is that accuracy is tied directly into physical strength. Mind you that in his youth Bobby was known to be able to run 8 or 9 racks at any given time and 4 or 5 racks shooting with one arm. who in his book 'Rags to Rifleman' Buddy Hall mentions him as possibly being seen as the best player at that time. Bobby could call a shot several rails and stop the cueball on less than a dime almost every time. So, I personally, think that there may be some validity in his explanation.

 

[sjm]

Jean retired I agree. The reasons for retiring are interesting for this thread.

Jean Balukas - why did she stop?

I am just curious is anyone knows why she stoped being as excellent as she was. Does anyone know why she has/had no interest in the ITP King of the Hill HOF. Did something bad happen in the past? Get a bad taste for the sport? Didnt she stop playing really young? I mean I hear there was just no...

forums.azbilliards.com

I've known Jean well for decades and also knew both her parents.

Yes, there's a little room for interpretation, but those of us who know her and were around back then understand that Jean was ready to call it a career in pool. I'm not going to read the attached thread, but the truth is that the Robin Bell incident for which she was fined was merely the straw that broke the camel's back. Jean was going to leave the game soon with or without that incident.

Since you seem to care about the history, don't overlook that Jean was already doing pool exhibitions as early as the age of six and was competing by the age of twelve, so her retirement at twenty-nine was not as "early" as it might appear. She had no worlds left to conquer in pool and she was a world class athlete, among other things a world class basketball player. I've played golf with Jean and she could hit it over 300 yards off the tee. At the bowling alley, her average was over 190. Jean wanted to play all the sports, and she got to live that dream.

The great mystery is that, just like Jean, Mike Sigel gave up full participation on the pro billiards tour after the 1992 season at the age of thirty-nine, considered by many the best ever pro player. Like Jean, he was best in the world at the moment he gave up full time competition. Known for his 100-hour weeks of practice he, similarly, had few worlds left to conquer in pool and he quickly walked away and became a successful cue-maker.

Sometimes, even the greatest at pool burn out early. Many have suggested that it is already beginning to happen to the 40-year-old all-time-great Shane Van Boening. Exactly how the minds of the greatest champions work will always baffle us to a point, but good for you that you care about pool history and like to explore these matters.