Meucci Medici Line of cues

Status
Not open for further replies.
JB Cases said:
(sigh) I know. It's kind of my job though to set the record straight on things like this.

All these years I make the same challenges and no one ever takes me up on them.

The same accusations are repeated, the same comments about Chinese cues, yet no one will simply print a list of what makes a good cue. None of these self-proclaimed experts will publish a list for the cues to be judged against.
Click to expand...

Time for me to chime in. What makes a good cue is what produces the desired result, and in this case, maybe I got lucky. I don't care where it's made. I don't feel the need to boost my ego, just to be able to say, such and such "a custom cuemaker made this for me". My Medici is cosmetically flawless, and plays as good as any old Meucci, or any other cue, including 1 off customs. Is the handle plastic under the wrap? Who knows? It does not matter. The fact that someone who I play a match with uses a custom, will not stop me from winning, if I play well. Example: I have a thread here, trying to sell a Lucasi. This particular cue I will put up against anything you put in front of me, and there will be NONE superior cosmetically. I don't care if the cue is worth thousands, it will not look better than mine under a magnifying glass. And it plays better than any custom I've used. Yet I cannot seem to sell it. It's made in China. So are 90+% of all cues sold around the world. I do not like the fact that US based companies are forced to manufacture overseas to compete, but that is just the way it is right now. Meucci's overall quality is in the pooper, anyway. I've examined scores of new cues, most are not straight, the finishes seem flawed, and no 2 shafts play alike, even the black dots.
 
manwon said:
John, I did not think you wanted a random test, lets just see what happens, I will still give you the opinion to purchase any of the Sterling, Fury, Blaze or Tempest cues I buy or I will just dump them on ebay it really doesn't matter.
Click to expand...

I was quite clear that I want a test on randomly picked cues done by an independent and unbiased lab.

John there are many ways to do this, however, most of them will not show how these cues hold up once they leave a controlled environment like your warehouse. People buy these cues all time on eBay this will give people an idea what they will get and how these cues hold up.
Click to expand...

It will? Are you going to play the cues for hundreds of hours to simulate years of use? Are you going to store them in various ways in different environments for long periods and track the movement of the wood? I am not clear how you intend to show people how brand new cues will hold up using a topical inspection.


Now to make things clear John, I am not interested in damage caused by handling only defects that are a direct result of construction / manufacturing.
Click to expand...

Ok. So how will you know that cosmetic defects - or any defects really - were not caused by the handling of the cue prior to getting to you?

And what type of things do you consider to be defects? You said you don't want to cut the cues up so that leaves topical inspection. How can you tell how a cue is made inside by looking at it?

And how do these topical defects that you will be looking for affect the cue's performance?

John, I really don't trust your involvement in this and mine will be backed-up by some one anyone would know as an expert so I don't know what could be more fair.
Click to expand...

My involvement in what? I have already said I won't be involved in any sort of biased review such as you propose. My only involvement will be to speak to whatever results you come up with and counter them if possible or use them to become better if whatever you find turns out to be consistently a problem. Personally I think that whatever you find will be easily dismissed when we lay out many cues side by side and go over your findings.

Be that as it may - if you ever publish something then and only then can I address it.

Lets see what happens John, like you said action speaks louder then simple words!!!!:D


Have a nice day Mr. Barton!!!:)
Click to expand...

Got any timeframe for doing all this exposing so I don't have to hold my breath waiting? I am sure we would all like to know when the big Craig Report on Sterling's brands of import cues is coming out. I heard that 20/20 and 60 Minutes were already in a bidding war for the exclusive. Oprah has said she wants to launch you as the Rachel Ray/Dr. Phil of pool cues to improve the lives of cue buyers everywhere with your hard hitting, no holds barred style of getting to the core of the cue industry. CNN is looking at you as well so the rumor goes.

I had a GREAT day thank you. Hope yours was also great.
 
Johnny9 said:
Time for me to chime in. What makes a good cue is what produces the desired result, and in this case, maybe I got lucky. I don't care where it's made. I don't feel the need to boost my ego, just to be able to say, such and such "a custom cuemaker made this for me". My Medici is cosmetically flawless, and plays as good as any old Meucci, or any other cue, including 1 off customs. Is the handle plastic under the wrap? Who knows? It does not matter. The fact that someone who I play a match with uses a custom, will not stop me from winning, if I play well. Example: I have a thread here, trying to sell a Lucasi. This particular cue I will put up against anything you put in front of me, and there will be NONE superior cosmetically. I don't care if the cue is worth thousands, it will not look better than mine under a magnifying glass. And it plays better than any custom I've used. Yet I cannot seem to sell it. It's made in China. So are 90+% of all cues sold around the world. I do not like the fact that US based companies are forced to manufacture overseas to compete, but that is just the way it is right now. Meucci's overall quality is in the pooper, anyway. I've examined scores of new cues, most are not straight, the finishes seem flawed, and no 2 shafts play alike, even the black dots.
Click to expand...

There is a certain group on AZ that has a real snobbery against Chinese made cues. Despite plenty of evidence to the contrary they will NEVER concede that a Chinese made cue is decent. They will never concede that a Chinese made cue can have all the quality of an American made one.

When you ask them to produce evidence that Chinese made cues are crap they do not, cannot and will not produce such evidence. On the contrary there are plenty of folks like yourself who have been using Chinese made cues for years with no problems.

The fact is that I could show up at the Super Billiards Expo and put some cues on display without logos on them and just let people write down guesses as to who made them and I bet a lot of those guesses would include some of the biggest names in cue making. It's fairly easy to replicate the style of any cue maker, same bumper, same weight bolt, etc... it's easy to strip the "tells" out a Chinese made cue.

The fact is that in 2010 there are two major makers of cues in China who are capable of producing cues that are as good as any production cue made anywhere else in the world and cues which are as good or better than a lot of cues made by small shops.

Was it this way 10 years ago? No. 20 years ago? Hell no.

But today, as I have said many times, it's tough to buy a "bad" cue. You would really need to go out of your way and drive to a Kmart to buy a crappy pool cue. Most of what's out there online and in retailer's shops are good decent cues, whether they are made in the USA or made in China.

Well I have said my piece on this. I gave you the inside scoop you were looking for. I will ask about getting you a shaft. It's likely that the factory has some available. Don't know if they will allow me to get you one but if so then I can have it sent with the next boat.

Y'all be good.

The floor is yours Craig. I am going back to lurking mode so feel free to insult me however you feel you need to.
 
Last edited:
~laughing~ three pages of crap for cues that aren't even made anymore. Amazing.

In review, Craig likes American made products. John likes Chinese made products. They will never convice the other of anything, so this should go on until the next thread where they have the same debate that they have had for years.
 
cubswin said:
~laughing~ three pages of crap for cues that aren't even made anymore. Amazing.

In review, Craig likes American made products. John likes Chinese made products. They will never convice the other of anything, so this should go on until the next thread where they have the same debate that they have had for years.
Click to expand...


I apologize to the forum for being involved in this senseless debate which has been a waste of time and energy.

Sincerely

Craig W. Rittel
 
Last edited:
Send me a Medicci and a Meucci.
I'll bandsaw them and let you know which one is better.
 
Johnny9 said:
Brilliant! How about I give you a match with it? Race to 11. The bet is I will bandsaw your custom if I win.
Click to expand...

We could do that.
How does that settle which is better, Medicci or Meucci ?

We certainly can't tell from the pics of the cues .
We could have them x-rayed.
 
Last edited:
My original post was why was the line discontinued. I have bought 5 Meuccis over the last year, 2 from a straight up dealer, and my Medici surpasses all of them in every way. I don't know why, but Meucci's quality has gone barreling down a hill. I really don't take as much stock in USA made as I used to. And I REALLY hate to say that.
 
Last edited:
Johnny9 said:
My original post was why was the line discontinued. I have bought 5 Meuccis over the last year, 2 from a straight up dealer, and my Medici surpasses all of them in every way. I don't know why, but Meucci's quality has gone barreling down a hill. I really don't take as much stock in USA made as I used to. American workers have generally become lazy, and don't give a damn. I've been in manufacturing for 35 years, and have witnessed the decline of American pride. And I REALLY hate to say that. The passing of NAFTA has alot to do with the fact that American Manufactured goods have made a left turn as to quality. Everyone feels like, so what, our jobs are going to go away, anyway. That is the reality.
Click to expand...

Don't lump in Meucci's quality with that of other American manufacturers. We sell Viking cues and we almost never have any issues with those cues.

Schon, Pechauer and McDermott are three other production brands whose quality of their USA made cues are top notch.

Meucci has had problems for a long long long time. Bob Meucci has always experimented with plastics and "alternative" ways to build cues. He feels that his way is the best way. That's fine and it may or may not have anything to do with the resulting quality of the finished product. There is no doubt that people have and can play great pool with Meucci cues.

The fact is though that somewhere along the line the cues went to crap as to the finished product. Dealers were returning a high percentage of the cues they were getting, warranty issues were not being properly handled, and service was abysmal.

Otherwise Meucci should rule the American cue market. The truth is that most Meucci designs were way ahead of their time. Meucci practically invented the genre of 'art' cue using real inlays with cues like the Taj Mahal. If someone like Bob Manzino were to build a cue using the exact Taj Majal design then it would be an instant monster cue.

I personally think that Bob is very creative and sometimes the creativity drives him to try materials that don't want to play nice together. Further to that I also think that he had gone through a period of leaving the running of the "business" to others while focusing on other activities and that not paying attention led to a decline in quality. As Ben Franklin wrote in Poor Richard's Almanac, "to not oversee your workers is to leave your purse strings open". (I really do NOW understand the lesson in this statement)

I know for a fact here in China that when you have a place that has a culture which accepts poor quality then it's very very very hard to turn it around into one which knows how to build quality and is willing to. Even if the owner of the factory understands what quality is and how to do it he still has to change the culture.

I could write another essay on what is "quality" and how that perception is different around the world and what it means. That's another topic.

Anyway, you have your answer as best we can give it to as to why the Medici line came and went. The upside, if there is one, is that the factory here has learned to think outside the box and come up with more designs that follow Bob Meucci's school of thought on cue design. So there will be more of those types of cues hitting the market in the coming years, bringing some fresh air back into production cues. Something beside the golf club look I mean.
 
Back in the mid 80's I sold a perfectly good Schon cue for a Meucci because I thought it would improve my game. With in 6 months the ferule cracked and the cue warped. They were junk back then. But they sure did look good and play lights out.
Now I am the proud owner of a Lucasi cue. It is dead straight and the ferule is as good as the day I bought it. I constantly get comments on how good it looks and how well it hits. And that's all I care about.I know it's not the best cue made but it does the job for me at a very reasonable cost.
 
Here is a question that begs an answer.
From all I've read here and elsewhere it seems that the quality of Meucci cues has gone downhill a lot.
Do the people at the Meucci company just not care? What about Bob himself how can he let name be associated with an inferior product?
 
measureman said:
Here is a question that begs an answer.
From all I've read here and elsewhere it seems that the quality of Meucci cues has gone downhill a lot.
Do the people at the Meucci company just not care? What about Bob himself how can he let name be associated with an inferior product?
Click to expand...

I don't know Bob all that well so take what I say with a grain of salt. The general idea is that when things were going well after the boom caused by the Color of Money Bob spent some money and time building a ranch and raising expensive horses. He left the day to day in the hands of others and those others let the quality slip away. I also heard that several key people left at some point.

As a person who runs a shop I can tell you that any manufacturing operation depends on the PEOPLE running it. The owner can want the best but if he doesn't have good people that he can properly motivate then he can forget it.

Your product is only as good as your last production run. That's all anyone remembers and these days getting a reputation of bad quality lasts forever on the internet. People post a bad review and then if the problem is corrected no one comes along afterward to do follow up and explain that it's all good now.

With any production facility you have to constantly be on top of practices.

If someone makes a mistake and no one catches it then you have hundred or thousands of pieces which are defective before anyone realizes it.

Machines get out of calibration and no one adjusts them, jigs break and no one repairs them, people start using the wrong tool. People hide their mistakes sometimes because they don't want to get yelled at. Then there are the people who just don't care, it's just a job to them.

If you want my real honest opinion about the MAJOR difference between production and custom cues (custom being those which are made in small shops with one or very few people) -

It's that the people who make production cues in factory environments are not players and they aren't building something that are going to use. They don't have to face the player who has spent their money on the cue like a small cuemaker does.

So the output of a production shop is directly reflected in the culture that is present. Either the people are happy and quality minded and able to work on their own for the most part and proud of what they put out - OR the factory is run under super tight quality control conditions with a lot of oversight to get quality products out the door - OR it's very disorganized and run by people who either don't care or aren't capable.

Whoever said that quality is no accident was 100% right. It takes constant diligence, pride, knowledge, management and foresight to put out a quality product. And the more people you have involved from start to finish the tougher it is.

People rail on "production" things all the time but very few realize what an effort it really is to get ANY product made in a "production" environment much less a "quality" product.

As for Bob Meucci he has two major things lined up against him - one is his personal philosophy of how cues should be made which goes against the prevailing philosophy which is more along the Balabushka/Szamboti methods. - and two he is working with a bunch of people who obviously don't care as much about the business as he does.

All in my opinion of course.
 
JB Cases said:
http://www.meuccicues.com/medici.htm

Based on the pictures shown here what sorts of things are bad about the cues? You can click on the pictures and see the cues in greater detail.

This is the copy from the page:

"Designed & Engineered for performance & beauty by Bob Meucci.

For your economic benefit, Medici cues are 80% manufactured by a premier offshore manufacturer and then fine tuned at the new Meucci factory in Byhalia, MS prior to shipping.

These six cues will be available for world-wide delivery on or about June 1st. On that first shipment date there will be only 100 of each model available.

We will immediately start taking pre orders until all of the initial shipment is pre sold, which should happen very quickly."

So my question is - - - -

If the cues were 80% done in China and then "fine tuned" at Meucci then who is ultimately responsible for the quality of the cues which were sent to dealers and consumers.

I wonder what happened to all the cues? Where are they?
Click to expand...

Looking at those cues with my comps magnifier tool you can see huge gaps in the inlays. Whether they are chinese or anything they are what they are, I wouldn't want to sell those either with gaps like that.
 
Craig Fales said:
Looking at those cues with my comps magnifier tool you can see huge gaps in the inlays. Whether they are chinese or anything they are what they are, I wouldn't want to sell those either with gaps like that.
Click to expand...



I did not look before, I am surprised that they would use photo's that obviously show such flaws, go figure!!!

Great Post
 
Craig Fales said:
Looking at those cues with my comps magnifier tool you can see huge gaps in the inlays. Whether they are chinese or anything they are what they are, I wouldn't want to sell those either with gaps like that.
Click to expand...

Which cues show this? I only see potential issues with the #5.

Maybe you think that the #6 shows gaps but in fact those diamonds are inlaid lower than the surface on purpose according to Bob's instructions. This give them some dimension. Lots of Meucci cues use this technique.

Otherwise, from the pictures I see no glaring defects on any cue other than the #5. Can you elaborate on the exact cues and inlays which you think are defective based on the pictures?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top