micarta from Mason

Q

qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
A couple weeks ago I recieved some micarta from Masonh. It was enough to make a couple ferrules. It is a new material that he is having custom made. The idea, so I assume, was to create a proprietary ferrule material that could closely compare to the old Westinghouse micarta without the asbestos hazards & inflated cost.

Upon first observation, it looks to have the same yellow tint as the old stuff, but instead of the pressed paper base it has a rolled linen base. The texture is also very smooth with a slight transucent quality, where old micarta was a flat color. Besides these two differences, the material seemed to be comparable.

I made a ferrule to the exact same specs as I make all of my ferrules and installed on a new shaft for my own playing cue. I took notice to use the same weight & grain type as the other shafts I have on this cue, in order to give as much truth to my comparison as I could. My goal is not matching the old micarta but instead finding a less expensive sub for my melamine. A sub for melamine it is not. In working, it cuts very clean & smooth, kinda like a block of phenolic with small ribbons instead of dusting. It glued very well, too. I let the glue dry for two days before installing a tip & shaving everything down to flush. I then polished up the shaft as normal & everything went smooth, no problems with workability.

On the table is where I was surprised. Instead of giving me the hit of melamine I was looking for, it instead gave me a near identical feel of old westinghouse micarta. The hit has a smooth, comfortable feel upon impact giving immediate trust & easy speed adjustment. Spin was comparable to my melamine, and was not at all hard to control. The hit did not have the sharp & sudden sensation that melamine gives me, which is a subjective thing anyway. But it did give me confidence without the time it usually takes to adjust. It's not what I was looking for, but I was pleasantly surprised to the point that i'm buying about 6' of rod to begin with. It is a fantastic material that gives the playability & control of melamine, but with the mild & comfortable feel of the old micarta. Lots of my customers have a tough time adjusting to the sharp hit my cues give, so this is a perfect sub for them. The cues will play the same but the feel can now be tamed down for folks who prefer the mild over the spicy :)

Overall i'm impressed with the material. It is as close to the feel of old micarta as I have ever felt, but without the the deflection I have noticed associated with it. Playability actually outperforms the old micarta. The test was done on a 3.9oz shaft equipped with a SuperPro tip. It is exactly the same as my playing shafts except the ferrule. I'm not one for offering endorsements or reviews unless it's well deserving. I believe this stuff is an advancement in the industry & can easily become a staple material in the cue world. Just thought i'd give a quick review to let folks hear about from an outside source. This test was an experiment for my own purposes.

Eric Crisp
Sugartree Customs
 
nice review....thought about trying it on my current cue from mason, and decided to stick with what I was already comfortable with. Next cue I'll have to give this a try, was thinking about it anyway.

sent you a pm btw...
 
Great review Eric, I installed it on my player and with the Super Pro tip and was pleased with it. It machines nicely and it is clean without any voids like been finding in the LBM. It's a keeper!!!!!!!!
I also like the color

Thanks Mason for a nice product!!!!!!

Ray
 
i am still looking into getting some rod made,but need to get the order larger.i have no use for it myself,but i don't mind getting it if there are enough orders for it.we'll see how it plays out.

cubs,the stuff i had last time was a little different.it was darker in color and hit a little harder,but was also heavier.this stuff is lighter in color and weight,which theoretically should be better.i will put one of these on that Birdseye/Pau Ferro sneaky.i think you will really like it.
 
masonh said:
i am still looking into getting some rod made,but need to get the order larger.i have no use for it myself,but i don't mind getting it if there are enough orders for it.we'll see how it plays out.

cubs,the stuff i had last time was a little different.it was darker in color and hit a little harder,but was also heavier.this stuff is lighter in color and weight,which theoretically should be better.i will put one of these on that Birdseye/Pau Ferro sneaky.i think you will really like it.
Click to expand...

are you having this stuff made for you by Norplex-Micarta, Inc.? if not, please stop refering to the material as micarta.

Micarta was a trademarked name for thermo plastics produced by westinghouse and since merged with Industrial Laminates/Norplex, Inc to form the current company name of Norplex-Micarta.

If this material is not produced by them, then it is both trademark infringment and Deceptive to refer to at as micarta. If you are having this commisioned for you through them, then by all means, continue callign it micarta as in that case it is. but if not, please stop.

Dont mean to be or sound rude, just stating the facts. the material sounds nice and i would also at some point like to try it out as well.
 
thaks for just stating the facts and not being rude.i sent you a PM.i have not infringed on anyone or anything and the stuff is micarta.thanks again.
 
socks said:
are you having this stuff made for you by Norplex-Micarta, Inc.? if not, please stop refering to the material as micarta.

Micarta was a trademarked name for thermo plastics produced by westinghouse and since merged with Industrial Laminates/Norplex, Inc to form the current company name of Norplex-Micarta.

If this material is not produced by them, then it is both trademark infringment and Deceptive to refer to at as micarta. If you are having this commisioned for you through them, then by all means, continue callign it micarta as in that case it is. but if not, please stop.

Dont mean to be or sound rude, just stating the facts. the material sounds nice and i would also at some point like to try it out as well.
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Did he call it Westinghouse Micarta?
 
thanks Joey.i want all cuemakers to know that this stuff IS yellow micarta.there is one characteristic i value about myself more than any other is that i am honest.i don't really want to get into how and where and by whom it is made here but i assure all of you that is is indeed yellow micarta and there is no infringement matters to worry about.thanks.
 
masonh said:
thanks Joey.i want all cuemakers to know that this stuff IS yellow micarta.there is one characteristic i value about myself more than any other is that i am honest.i don't really want to get into how and where and by whom it is made here but i assure all of you that is is indeed yellow micarta and there is no infringement matters to worry about.thanks.
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I'd label it Westinghouse Micarta and sell each ferrule for $175.
Signed~PT Barnum~
 
edit: removed acouple statements that where uncalled for on my part.

first off, i was informing the rest of the azbilliards population of ligitamate situation. YOU, YOURSELF never once mentioned where you where getting the stuff, only that it was being customed made for you. YOU, YOURSELF stated this was micarta, by making such a statement YOU, YOURSELF admited to where you where getting the material. had you not been getting your material from said company, you yourself would of been breaking the law and infringing on thier trademarked name.

the deceptive nature of your comments to associate this material to the old westinghouse manufactured micarta is exactly the unexeptable behavior that has been being discussed recently on this forum. I was not in the slightest bit rude in my informative post above, but your following PM to me was rude and was. you are the only one here out of line.

masonh said:
thanks for telling the whole world where i am getting the stuff made.why would you do that?it is not your business at all.i am the only one who knows how to get the stuff and i am trying to make a small profit for my time and effort.it took me 3-4 months to have the stuff custom made to the right characteristics.i sent samples of the old stuff and the newer yellow micarta to them and it was very difficult to have it done.

i can't figure out why you would do that.now everyone and their brother is going to just call Norplex and try to have it made.it is a custom order so they will have extreme difficulty getting the same stuff,but i guarantee they will try.thanks again man.
Click to expand...

secondly, your obviously not the only one that knows where to get the stuff as i spent 5 minutes on google and figured it out. as well, i dont remember specifying which of thier 100 different products it was nor the formula used in manufacturing? kindly point me to where i did and i will retract anything i've said with full appologies.

thirdly, this is a public forum in which i am customer of cue makers and cue repair men using your product that for all i knew was being deceptivly and fradulently misrepresented and marketed to compare it to something it might not have been for the sole purpouse of getting me to spend my money on it. as a consumer and member of this Fourm, that makes it every bit my business.

You may be well known here and have a great posse following that will
probably relentlessly flame me, but i really don't care. you where going to get my business, but due to your rudeness, will not now.
 
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Wow, this sure seems to be getting blown out of proportion. I did not read any deception or malice into Mason's offering. Some cue materials and services are more difficult to obtain than others. I don't expect cuemakers or hobbyists to reveal their sources for all things. If there is blatant deception or an attempt to bilk our AZB bretheren then the perpetrator should be flamed away, IMO. This is not the case here. Socks, I'm not part of Mason's "posse" but I respectfully have to say that your response here is over the top, IMO.

Martin
 
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jazznpool said:
Wow, this sure seems to be getting blown out of proportion. I did not read any deception or malice into Mason's offering. Some cue materials and services are more difficult to obtain than others. I don't expect cuemakers or hobbyists to reveal their sources for all things. If there is blatant deception or an attempt to bilk our AZB bretheren then the perpetrator should be flamed away, IMO. This is not the case here. Socks, I'm not part of Mason's "posse" but I respectfully have to say that your response here is over the top, IMO.

Martin
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some portions where over the top, your right. i just took imidiate offense to his pm to me and let it get to me. i actually removed some portions of my post before reading yours due to them being over the top, if you could remove it from your quote, that would be cool too. if not whatever, whats said is said.

whether a product is more difficult for one person to obtain than anouther has no bearing on anything. the fact the matter is he is using a product no longer being manufactured to make comparison to. the product he is using as comparison is trademarked. no ifs, ands, or buts. the first post he made, he called it "NEW MICARTA". if its from norplaex, as i stated no issue, thats who makes micarta and holds the trademark. if not, thats deceptive. i only asked for clarification. he returned my request for clarification with attitude, sarcasm and rude comments where i even went out of my way to even mention i was interested and wasn't being rude as intent and tone are very widley misinterpreted when used in text format.
 
WOW!!! I see trademark infringement and Plagiarism and copyright infringement 20 times a day on these forums. Hasn't bothered many people before this. You are absolutely correct in stating that Micarta was Westinghouse's trade name for their phenolics and since they were the largest manufacturer of phenolics in the world, their moniker became the common name for phenolics, just the same as call melamine counter tops Formica and for years refrigerators were called Frigidaire's. What I don't understand is just what was the point of even bringing the subject up.

By the way, if anybody wants any genuine, asbestos base, old yellow micarta., I've got all you could ever want for 100.00 per ferrule.

Dick
 
I have met Mason and rolled whitey around with him a bit. He struck me as honest and likeable. If I am a member of any posse, it didn't require an application.

Wow! I mean, geez...Mason is offering to share ferrule material he worked to have made, even sending out samples...and then this...
 
rhncue said:
WOW!!! I see trademark infringement and Plagiarism and copyright infringement 20 times a day on these forums. Hasn't bothered many people before this. You are absolutely correct in stating that Micarta was Westinghouse's trade name for their phenolics and since they were the largest manufacturer of phenolics in the world, their moniker became the common name for phenolics, just the same as call melamine counter tops Formica and for years refrigerators were called Frigidaire's. What I don't understand is just what was the point of even bringing the subject up.

Dick
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Good points Dick. Especially, why bring it up publicly? Personnally I would have addressed the concerns thru a pm, thereby not causing an incident and revealing the manufacturer, thereby protecting the guy's investment, etc. should the concerns be unfounded, and I wouldn't look foolish.
I would respond the same way as masonh if provoked in the manner that he was. At least he responded to it in a p.m. until that also was made public.
I do see Sock's questions being legit, just a smoother way to have dealt with it would have been better all around for all concerned.
Just my .2 cents
Dave
 
mid post edit: i saw he deleted his response while i was typing, so out of curtisy i'v cleared it from my quote.
qbilder said:
...
Click to expand...

first off, i should appologise for using this thread. i should of used his original thread.

second, i never asked if it was the original westinghouse micarta. your right he never claimed it was, and that wasn't my question to him. plastics are still manufactured under the micarta trademarked name. a particular product of micarta, up until recently, was supplied by atlas. i'm not saying its the same particular product, because i dont know. all i asked is if this material was in fact "micarta". he answered the question, that it is in fact "micarta". thats it. thats all i wanted to know.

edit: there was a paragraph here about this forum, but its been removed due to the same edit as above.

frankly, i'm disgusted that im the one being flamed

he advertised a product as micarta never stateing if it was true "micarta"
manufactured by norplex-micarta. i ask if it is, and it is, great fine no harm no foul. instead of a nice simple answer of "yes" i'm issued back a rude pm as if i divulged some industry secret that this is a trademarked material that any monkey could figure out came from norplex. and if the answer was "no"? noone sees the dishonesty that would have existed had that been the case? i'm glad i brought this up. this whole thread, except for eric's original post starting it, which again i appologise for using this one, just further's manwon's points.

i'll even offer up a cookie to anyone that can figure out which of thier 100 or so products listed on thier website is the one he's using.
 
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socks said:
mid post edit: i saw he deleted his response while i was typing, so out of curtisy i'v cleared it from my quote.

first off, i should appologise for using this thread. i should of used his original thread.

second, i never asked if it was the original westinghouse micarta. your right he never claimed it was, and that wasn't my question to him. plastics are still manufactured under the micarta trademarked name. a particular product of micarta, up until recently, was supplied by atlas. i'm not saying its the same particular product, because i dont know. all i asked is if this material was in fact "micarta". he answered the question, that it is in fact "micarta". thats it. thats all i wanted to know.

edit: there was a paragraph here about this forum, but its been removed due to the same edit as above.

frankly, i'm disgusted that im the one being flamed

he advertised a product as micarta never stateing if it was true "micarta"
manufactured by norplex-micarta. i ask if it is, and it is, great fine no harm no foul. instead of a nice simple answer of "yes" i'm issued back a rude pm as if i divulged some industry secret that this is a trademarked material that any monkey could figure out came from norplex. and if the answer was "no"? noone sees the dishonesty that would have existed had that been the case? i'm glad i brought this up. this whole thread, except for eric's original post starting it, which again i appologise for using this one, just further's manwon's points.

i'll even offer up a cookie to anyone that can figure out which of thier 100 or so products listed on thier website is the one he's using.
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Well, why don't you complain to all those yellow micarta SHEETS sellers then?
They are NOT micarta. They are cheap plastics.
Should I even list them?
Hell, the micarta sheet now is not the same micarta sheet only maybe 2 years ago. Find me a nice ivory colored micarta sheet that's not plasticky.
Micarta is one of the most abused names in plastics today.
Phenolic? Are they really phenolics? How white phenolics do you see around?
Some claim they are phenolics but are they really phenolics?
Atlas Fibre/Spaulding have changed formulation with the stuff they make, it's laugheable.
Now, which idiot here would believe Mason is giving away Westinghouse asbestos micarta?
Of course, Mason could have just called it Yellow Paper Weaveless Phenolic but I bet someone would still whine it's not really yellow, or weaveless or phenolic.
Joey~Couldn't care less what it's called as long as it hits gooood~
 
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