Mike the Mouth v/s Women

9BallBust-O said:
Ok KtownD - so let me get this straight -

It would of been smart of me to bet that Neils would win over Allison? I would have ...Yet I would of lost.
It would of been wise of me to bet that Archer would win over Karen? I would have .. but I would of lost.
Yet you think Im stupid to bet against Mike over either one of them.... Um...ok

Heck it wouod of been a toss up if LJJ and I played .. boy oh boy
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And if you would have bet on Matthew Stevens to win against Shaun Murphy last year to win the World Snooker Championships, you would have lost too. My point is underdogs do win occasionally.

I am a big fan of the women players, and anyone who knows me would say I am far from a male chauvenist, so this statement is purely from observation. The women play great, better than great but they are not yet at the same level as the men. They are getting there, but not quite yet. Jeanette Lee's 150 ball high run is a proof of this. However it is a far cry from 526 or the numerous 400's that are run by the guys.

If the IPT becomes a mainstay then women will have a higher level to reach for and I truly believe they will play just as well as the men. It's not a power game so it certainly is possible.

I am interested in seeing what happens as this unfolds.
 
Jersey said:
FWIW,

I to am quickly growing tired of 'The Mouth', I don't think anyone here is saying Seigel was not/is not a great player...but does that give him license to trash some of the best players living today, maybe ever, (only time will tell).? IMO, NO!, be it hype or not. Could Johnny or Neils beat him? Yes, and I don't think people would be suprised by that. Well Karen and Allison beat Johnny and Neils, so why is it so far fetched to some people that one of these Ladies could beat Mike Seigel?

Mike should become the ambassador to the IPT...that's all he really is to KT anyway. Watch, Seigel will be gone before you know it...enjoying his retirement and all the $$$ KT has made for him, quietly fading into Billiard History...at least one can hope.
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I agree with what you say.

It seems like they are trying to make Seigal a living billiard icon, and real pool enthusiasts are not buying into it.

But if it works for the general public, they may be onto something here....:D
 
Bobby Riggs V Billy Jean King

ridewiththewind said:
Lastly....I think the 'mixed' format is a great thing for pool. It represents the age old battle of the sexes. For some of you older members here, remember the hoopla and cash generated back in the 70's from the King vs Riggs match-up on the tennis court. I remember a butt-load of press and hype over that match-up, and it really pumped alot of new blood, and cash, into professional tennis, which was beginning to wane at the time. I find the 'mixed' format incredibly entertaining!!:D

Lisa
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In alot of ways this is the same thing.......Riggs was a pompus ass past his prime like MS...Allison Fisher is at the top of her game just like Billy Jean King.......The hype and build up around this match was huge....Of course King won and it was some Big Victory for Feminism.....

It might have been just that if she played Jimmy Conners, or Bjorn Borg....

Everyone knows that Billy Jean could Lick any of the ladies on the prr tour, but she couldn't lick a man.

Allison just doesn't seem like the lady lickin kind....:D

Ok that was uncalled for ..... damn you sick twisted mind...:o

McCue Banger McCue
 
When the guys play the girls on a pro level it's a no win proposition for the guys. If they win....big deal they are supposed to...if they lose....they get ridiculed.

It a lot like a short stop playing a top road player or a pro. The shortstop is supposed to lose even up, so they play wide open and maybe win occasionally. Again this is a no win situation for the pro as they are "supposed" to win, but have off days like the rest of us.

Gerry
 
mnShooter said:
Without Sigel there would be no IPT. So quit raggin on him.
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KT needed a larger than Life figure to make the IPT promotion work.
They came up with this "Mike the Mouth" campaign to generate interest
and create a "Buzz".

Every word that comes out of Mike's mouth is carefully handcrafted by KT's
Public relations & marketing dept.

This latest comment about the Women is total hype just to get people talking about the IPT, wich in turn will cause people to see the advertising for the Natural Cure package, wich in turn means $$$$ for KT.

Mike & Lori have been friends forever and he has a ton of respect for the women players.

:)
 
It doens't really matter if Allison, Corr, or Lee can't beat Mike in a race to 1000 straight pool match or whatever. The money game now is sets of eight ball and they can beat anyone if their opponent plays just a little bad. This isn't nine ball where you can kick a ball with control and leave hard shots- you hook yourself on your last ball and these ladies will run an open table with multiple shot options almost every time.

Unless Sigel starts to play a little better, he's going to have a hard time beating some of these girls if he tightens up like he did against Efren. Ten years away from the game, and being over 50 years old doesn't help him. Not respecting the lady players will only make it worse for him - if he thinks it will be embarrassing to lose to a girl, he might just put more pressure on himself. He'd be better off playing them like he used to play Buddy Hall; respect their game but have confidence in his ability to win.

The general public doesn't know Mike's record (which is phenomenal) so he just comes across as arrogant.
 
The Nay Sayers

At the time of this post there are 5 pages here on AZ. The nay sayers keep saying that the women players can't beat the men. Then when they do, they say that they can't beat the top men. Well I got news for them. THEY ALREADY HAVE. :D Just how many times does a female player have to win before they can b declared the winner. The women players went 3 days, 12 hours a day, just like the guys. O, they got lucky that time. But they can't do it again. Well, neither can some of the top men. The same player does not win every tournament. If u win a match, u have won and deserve the recognition. Not to b put down by saying that they can't do it again and once was a fluke. The plain simple fact is that they DID win, and against some of the top men playing today. What if the same pairings happen again and the women win again? Will the nay sayers come back again with the same old line. Well they were lucky, AGAIN. :rolleyes: Get real and wake up. The women already DID beat some of the top male players. When will u get the courage to face up and admit it HAS happened.
 
ALSO -- about 14.1 yeah there were some EXTREME high runs by guys - esp. back in the day when 14.1 was THE game. Believe me - if todays game was str8 pool and thats what the wbpa played... they would have much higher runs than 150. Also I am sure that any female snooker player would excell at 14.1 is that was practiced full force.
 
You cant base Allison and Karen on what you see on ESPN and you cant base Sigel on what you have seen in the IPT so far. Allison and Karen look like pool gods on the IPT and ESPN. Mike Sigel is going for that image but failing miserably on the IPT because of his game with Efren. He did crush LJJ, but the way she was playing that day, I could have too.

IMO. Sigel would beat Allison and Karen easily. I hope one of them match up in the IPT Open next month, I would love to see that. I got $50 on Sigel against any woman if anyone wants to take that bet. :D
 
I am not basing it on ESPN or IPT. Icon - you got a bet right here for $100for Sigal v/s Allison or Karen.
 
As for Mike's comments. I think folks hear only heard what they wanted. He didn't only say he could beat these women. He said he would ROB, yes he said ROB Thorstan and I forget now who the other player was (when KT asked what Mike thought it would be like to play either of these two players).

Now I love Mike's game (not his ego, but who does, although it is fun to see him loose to short stops from time to time). but he ain't robbing any one of the top guys for quite some time...

Sp the point I'm making here if it's not already clear. Mike has disrespecteed far greater player than AF or KC, sorry but the 2 of them are the best of the best (womans league), but they aren't the best of the best in the world of pool (at least I don't think so)... But then again we really will never know because they are palying short races of 8 ball. If you want to know who is the best race to 120 games in a row over a few days. Put any of the best female cuests against any of the top males and you'll see weither they are as good as some think they are...

I'ld love to know what the high runs for female pro players are in tournaments. like Earl did what 10 BR in a row, how many have any of these "TOP PRO PLAYERS" (the women pros) done...

Now me I suck, but I'm a big fan of cue sports, and I've yet to see a match where the women are playin in the Accu-Stats 950 range, have you???

But I've seen pleanty of lowwer level "Pro Players" (male) do it...

I hope trhis doesn't take me off any ones Xmas list...

Pete
 
Ive seen Allison play winner break race to 7 and the lady she was playing got to shoot twice. Not get up to shoot twice ... I mean pull the trigger twice. If I remember correct one shot was to shoot a push out that AF did and one was to shoot at a safe from AF.

Thats the best I have ever seen her play - but I havent seen every game she ever played. Also how many countless break and runs I have seen her do but its not winner break format. So - who knows what she can string up - but Im sure its a good ammount.

Also a side note - I dont think anyone alive could "ROB" Hohman

Pete .. accu-stats dont vidoe women .. they have a few times but not often ...
Allison has played a .970
 
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Pete said:
I'ld love to know what the high runs for female pro players are in tournaments. like Earl did what 10 BR in a row, how many have any of these "TOP PRO PLAYERS" (the women pros) done...
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It was 11 games, (with a whole bunch won on the snap). How many male "TOP PRO PLAYERS" have BR 11 in a row in a touney? I guess men can't compete with Earl either.
 
9BallBust-O said:
I am not basing it on ESPN or IPT. Icon - you got a bet right here for $100for Sigal v/s Allison or Karen.
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You possibly have Action. :D PM me :D

The basing it thing I mentioned wasnt directed at you, may have seemed that way since my post was after yours. I just want people to look at the whole picture, not just what they see on TV. Sure they see Allison beating other women all the time on ESPN, but how often do we see her play men, and how does she fair then?

PM me with details on the bet so we can keep it off the public forum and how we can work out payment options should this match occur and how we are going to get the money to each other after the outcome.

(This is all friendly of course :))
 
Been SHOUTING IT FOR EVER!!

Whitewolf - I have said that AF and a few others could hang with the guys from the very start way b 4 I ever posted on here - I have taken so much crap from it for years - Im not coming out of the wood work!! :p :D
 
Pete said:
As for Mike's comments. I think folks hear only heard what they wanted. He didn't only say he could beat these women. He said he would ROB, yes he said ROB Thorstan and I forget now who the other player was (when KT asked what Mike thought it would be like to play either of these two players).

Now I love Mike's game (not his ego, but who does, although it is fun to see him loose to short stops from time to time). but he ain't robbing any one of the top guys for quite some time...

Sp the point I'm making here if it's not already clear. Mike has disrespecteed far greater player than AF or KC, sorry but the 2 of them are the best of the best (womans league), but they aren't the best of the best in the world of pool (at least I don't think so)... But then again we really will never know because they are palying short races of 8 ball. If you want to know who is the best race to 120 games in a row over a few days. Put any of the best female cuests against any of the top males and you'll see weither they are as good as some think they are...

I'ld love to know what the high runs for female pro players are in tournaments. like Earl did what 10 BR in a row, how many have any of these "TOP PRO PLAYERS" (the women pros) done...

Now me I suck, but I'm a big fan of cue sports, and I've yet to see a match where the women are playin in the Accu-Stats 950 range, have you???

But I've seen pleanty of lowwer level "Pro Players" (male) do it...

I hope trhis doesn't take me off any ones Xmas list...

Pete
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I thought heard Mike say when, I think it was when KT, refer to Fisher as the best woman player in the world, correct him and say, "Maybe the best woman player of all time". As far as the Rob comment, that's a gambling term and I think he was being sincere. Lock him in a room with any woman in the world and let them play and he probably in fact will rob them at least he believes so and I have to admit so do I.

I seriously doubt Mike hates or disrespects women, it's just hard to have a conversation on the subject without being accused of that when you are just being honest. As far as Mikes ego, spend some time with him and there are no lulls in the conversation, he can talk enough for both of you and his favorite subject is himself. There is no law against that though and he is a pretty nice guy in general. He may regret sometime in the future the way he is being depicted now. No one wants to read that people hate you or have them cheer when you lose.
 
Sigel vs. Allison or Karen

I think that was what this thread was about. Of course, it has veered left and right in five pages.

I saw Mike Sigel at his peak and he was awesome! One of the greatest ever. A great clutch shotmaker with a heart for the goal line. He always wanted to win every time out. And he gave it his all, and beat every top player with frequency.

Unfortunately greatness in Pool (and all sports) is not about how good you were. It is about how good you ARE. And Mike has lost that burning desire to win and with it a lot of his game. From what I´ve seen, he is maybe 75% the player he was. In 14.1 he can still win and run balls using his vast knowledge of the game. Even in that game, I don´t like him against the top players. Against Thorsten or Engert he´s a big dog. I´d even let him play John Schmidt a long race for 10K (1,000 points) if Mike wanted to put his money where his mouth was.

As far as playing Allison or Karen some 9-Ball or Eight Ball, if I was forced to bet on the match, I couldn´t bet on Sigel. It´s a new day in Pool in case you hadn´t noticed and the top women players have arrived. As someone else pointed out, they have already beaten many of the top men during the last few years. Their tour is making them tournament tough and has become a good training ground for the younger women. The newest young star Jasmine O. is the real deal. She might beat anyone at anytime.

And that is my humble opinion.
 
9BallBust-O said:
Whitewolf - I have said that AF and a few others could hang with the guys from the very start way b 4 I ever posted on here - I have taken so much crap from it for years - Im not coming out of the wood work!! :p :D
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Hey, your Message box is full, trying to reply. :D
 
9BallBust-O said:
Ive seen Allison play winner break race to 7 and the lady she was playing got to shoot twice. Not get up to shoot twice ... I mean pull the trigger twice. If I remember correct one shot was to shoot a push out that AF did and one was to shoot at a safe from AF.

Thats the best I have ever seen her play - but I havent seen every game she ever played. Also how many countless break and runs I have seen her do but its not winner break format. So - who knows what she can string up - but Im sure its a good ammount.

Also a side note - I dont think anyone alive could "ROB" Hohman

Pete .. accu-stats dont vidoe women .. they have a few times but not often ...
Allison has played a .970
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Sorry they do have them ask Pat. And I have a couple in my collection.

Although they might not sell them any more, but call and ask Pat about that...
 
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