Minimum wage & The cost of living

The have nots whine about being have nots.. That's WHY they are have nots. The haves get up off their asses and refuse to whine about how hard it is to make a decent buck, and they go out and do what it takes to make a buck.

The formula has been there since the beginning of man..

1. Get an education.

2. Work Hard.

3. Work Harder..

4. Take a chance once in a while.

Some people make it without any of these.. They are "the lucky two". (Because there's only about two or three of them in the world)

Here's a little something one of my college professors told me once. He said, "If someone can be trained to do a job in two days or less, then that's a minimum wage job. If it requires a week or two more, then that might be worth a dollar or two more. That's why (for the most part) the people with 4 year plus degrees make a middle class wage. Getting through college successfully is by far the easiest way, statistics-wise to an "easy" life in America."

He then followed this up by saying "Speaking of statistics, the statistics say that 2/3 of you will drop out of college, and never return. But you know what? That's okay! After all, SOMEone's gotta be dock workers and fishermen. And if you end up making my cheeseburger at McDonald's, then just make the best damn cheeseburger you can make."

It was his way of saying you are responsible for your own lot in life. If you chose to ditch college, then that's okay. But you have no right to complain about how things turned out.

Russ
 
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If people are so concerned about minimum wage why are we attacking milk prices? Milk is a good that the government pays subsidies to the makers of. Milk farmers are worse off than most people money wise. If milk prices increase that means they start making more money.People who believe minimum wage is too low should support the raise in milk prices because it means farmers are making more money. This has nothing to do with the president because milk farmers have been sudsibized by the government since before GWB was born.
As for minimum wage in general...it is the people who work those jobs own faults. I am just out of high school (class of 07) and have never made minimum wage, there are jobs for those who want them that pay more than minimum wage.
How did GWB get dragged into this conversation?

Ben
 
things are tough all over, I was very lucky a few years ago and made a little $$$, but I'm making 30% less this this year than last year and i can feel it hard, no matter what you make you grow into it and a downturn hurts. I have friends who have over 100 million net worths probably 10 people at that level, one guy is worth around 900 million, and all of them but one can feel the slow own, my point being its hitting everyone at all levels, of course it hurts the people who make less $$$ more, but unless you have oil wells things are bad. I know ALOT of people at all levels and I dont see anyone but one guy who isnt worried, then again perhaps he is hiding his turn down, I think it will be a bumpy road for 5 years or more, Greenspan lowering interest to the lowest level in 45 years and the dotcom boom set up the down turn were all feeling.
 
Quote Russ: Oh yeah, and by the way.. Pretty much every commanding general since air power first came into being would disagree with you. You HAVE to have ground tropps to fight an insurgent war.

I totally agree, Russ but they don't have to be our ground troops any longer.
 
frankncali said:
Russ
I know you are there but your statement "They're not as far away as you think." is very very very very far off.
I have a Brother In Law that is in the Pentagon and is a career officer. He said that if we wait until they are stable we will be there UNTIL THE END OF EARTH. He said basically it would take a major major push in other areas besides government stability to make the country semi peaceful.

The education level their is extremely poor and Sadam wanted it that way.
Fighting and killing is all that the majority know there. Sadam just
kept peoples anger build up inside with fear. That happens when you kill
a million people in a few days.

We have no business being in Iraq but we are there now. Lets put our educated military heads together and find a way out. Set the plan and
lets go.

I always love it when the press or the average joe reports that Al Quida is
so strong there. Funny they had an almost zero presence before we arrived. Thats a fact as Sadam might have given them money but he wasnt dumb enough to let any strong group remain in his country.
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Your Brother in Law is in the Pentagon... I sit 10 feet from the guy running the entire war in Iraq, General Petraeus. I think I like my sources better than yours. I was talking to a Colonel the other day, and he was telling about when he went through war college. The instructor asked them how they would go about winning the war in Iraq. This officer said "Put Gen Petraeus in charge!" Everyone else started in about Gen P was "too junior".

Well, lookie here. He's in charge, and things have started changing already. The man is much more hands on then Casey was. Moreover, I think he is much more in tune with what it takes to fight a counterinsurgency war. You really have nothing to go on but your brother-in-law's opinion, but that's okay. Sometimes we jump to a conclusion without knowing the big picture. I don't hold that against you.

But I will say this. Gen Petraeus formed a security plan that has kept the religious observances safe that have for the past few years, been so bloody. If the insurgents can't kill people, can't scare people, they are irrelevant. That's not to say they aren' going to try, and sometimes succeed, but it does make their goal a HELL of a lot harder.

You guys don't hear the briefing where intel comes in of so-and-so (insurgent leader) going on the run and basically "giving up the jihad" because he is so paranoid, because only three people knew about a plan to attack such-and-such a place. Almost his whole team was decimated, and now he is the most paranoid bad dude since Bin Laden.

That's the effect we are having on the insurgents. They don't know who they can trust, and trusting the wrong person can, and does, get them killed. It's a little tough carrying out a complicated plan to blow up 300-400 people when you can't trust the guys on your team.

You have two people on here telling you we are making a difference. Me and easy-e. You have a brother-in-law who has a different opinion.

Maybe people should either seek out the opinion of the people who ARE here or have BEEN here, or listen to those same people they already know, rather than finding someone who will parrot the opinion they already have. :D

Russ
 
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hemicudas said:
I totally agree, Russ but they don't have to be our ground troops any longer.
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I agree with that hemi, but we gotta get the Iraqi Security Forces (ISF) to a point where they are getting paid by their government and are capable of doing the job by themselves.

And let's remember, this is the lowest casualty of any major war that has ever occurred. And can we all agree a semi-democratic Iraq that started building it's economy up would be a moderating influence on the rest of the Middle East? Something has to be done about the Middle East, that much is certain.

Would you rather we left the problem for a later generation? Maybe your grandchildren? Your great grandchildren? I don't know, but I think my grandparents would not have balked at the sacrifice if they thought there was any chance we could make a difference?

Russ
 
Russ Chewning said:
The have nots whine about being have nots.. That's WHY they are have nots. The haves get up off their asses and refuse to whine about how hard it is to make a decent buck, and they go out and do what it takes to make a buck.

The formula has been there since the beginning of man..

1. Get an education.

2. Work Hard.

3. Work Harder..

4. Take a chance once in a while.

Some people make it without any of these.. They are "the lucky two". (Because there's only about two or three of them in the world)

Here's a little something one of my college professors told me once. He said, "If someone can be trained to do a job in two days or less, then that's a minimum wage job. If it requires a week or two more, then that might be worth a dollar or two more. That's why (for the most part) the people with 4 year plus degrees make a middle class wage. Getting through college successfully is by far the easiest way, statistics-wise to an "easy" life in America."

He then followed this up by saying "Speaking of statistics, the statistics say that 2/3 of you will drop out of college, and never return. But toyu know what? That's okay! After all, SOMEone's gotta be dock workers and fishermen. And if you end up making my cheeseburger at McDonald's, then just make the best damn cheeseburger you can make."

It was his way of saying you are responsible for your own lot in life. If you chose to ditch college, then that's okay. But you have no right to complain about how things turned out.

Russ
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Russ

nice too see you, i kinda disagree with 2,3 "work hard" is an overly broad statment there is more to it than just that, its not how hard you work its how SMART you work as well both are necessary, that dosent mean less hours. But getting the highest and best use of your time-you have to find what your good at in life, some people sadly never find it, what if Efren never walked into a pool room? or Michael Jordan never picked up a basket ball and kept trying to play ping-pong his whole life? he wouldnt be where he is, You have to be smart and find what your best, at then work smart and hard when your are the right thing-It sure as heck aint pool for me, i'd be homeless if I had to rely on my pool game, so after a few years of trying I got smart and started looking around. Your right hard work is important but work hard on your smart work. there are things in life that can come up and prevent people from finding whats right for them and if thats the case then work hard, but working smart before the hard work will get you there alot faster, to that end your right hard work is necessary if your on the right track or not,
 
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railfirst said:
If people are so concerned about minimum wage why are we attacking milk prices? Milk is a good that the government pays subsidies to the makers of. Milk farmers are worse off than most people money wise. If milk prices increase that means they start making more money.People who believe minimum wage is too low should support the raise in milk prices because it means farmers are making more money. This has nothing to do with the president because milk farmers have been sudsibized by the government since before GWB was born.
As for minimum wage in general...it is the people who work those jobs own faults. I am just out of high school (class of 07) and have never made minimum wage, there are jobs for those who want them that pay more than minimum wage.
How did GWB get dragged into this conversation?

Ben
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You just don't get it........
 
Nine Ball said:
Bush is garbage anyway you view it
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i agree, and i like republicans, he is self serving his mission was to raise oil prices because he is in the business and he did just that at all costs, he has ruined alot of lives and familys,

my mom said it best before before she died, "we need a good president, forget what party, just a good leader" its been along time since we have had that.

Bush has ruined our international reputation as well, and it will be along time to repair the damage, usually i ignore this stuff but its so bad now I have been following it some what,

i hope and pray Hillery dosent win, 2 familys in power for a potential 28 years isnt good, too bad Ross Perot(SP?) didnt win, I dont know who I like now perhaps Obama????

One thing is a lock it wont be a republican, Bush destroyed that party for along time.

its a mess now matter how you you look at it.
 
Hery nine ball,take your sorry ass to Iran, where they hold President Bush in the same light. Your Lillipution Intelligence will be greatly appreciated there.
 
Fatboy said:
One thing is a lock it wont be a republican, Bush destroyed that party for along time.
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O Ho Ho Ho! The Corey/Shane match must have my nose open! :D :D :D

"Lock", you say??? Hmm, well if it is a lock, then I would say you should give me 7 to 1 against a Republican winning the White House in '08..

That's fair, wouldn't you say? And if it's not, lay me a real price on it. But before you do, remember, you said the Democrats are a lock, so lay the price accordingly.. :D

Russ
 
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Russ Chewning said:
I agree with that hemi, but we gotta get the Iraqi Security Forces (ISF) to a point where they are getting paid by their government and are capable of doing the job by themselves.

And let's remember, this is the lowest casualty of any major war that has ever occurred. And can we all agree a semi-democratic Iraq that started building it's economy up would be a moderating influence on the rest of the Middle East? Something has to be done about the Middle East, that much is certain.

Would you rather we left the problem for a later generation? Maybe your grandchildren? Your great grandchildren? I don't know, but I think my grandparents would not have balked at the sacrifice if they thought there was any chance we could make a difference?

Russ
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Hey Russ,
I know I have given you alot of crap in the past. Most of it was in good fun, but on this issue here I just want to say to you and all the troops in Iraq.....Thank You. Come home safe bro and lets play some pool some day. God bless.

Southpaw
 
All that we are doing now, is insuring there will be future attacks on this soil. We don't need to be in Iraq, we are just creating more hatred for our country over there. Would they really hate us if we weren't over there trying to make them like us.
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You just don't get it do you. to say something like this you obviously have no understanding of the the people we are up against. THEY HATE OUR GUTS. we (england in my case, america for you, and the rest of the west) are the immoral unholy scum of the earth with our disgusting lifestyles. it's not just a case of leave them alone and they won't bother us. i wish it was that simple and we even had that option! they will always bother us because they hate us and our society because we are not muslims.

and in any case, often people confuse two issues as well. one whether it was right to go in in the first place, and two, how well we are handling it. the first is a no brainer in my opinion, it was morally right at the least. and second, i don't think it's nessecarilly been handled the best, but i'm no expert on the subject so i am not 100% sure to be honest. and how many of us are experts?
 
Thanks, Southpaw.. I'm looking forward to starting up another "Betmore's Basement" type thing in Florida, where all forum members in good standing are welcome to drop in and hit a few.

Russ
 
life gets simpler when you realize the harder you work the more you are going to **** yourself, i dont normally use bad words, and maybe i'll be edited, but that is the only word to describe accurately what happens when you work hard at or near minimum wage.

Cut expenses, don't buy ANYTHING and you won't have to earn very much and thus don't have to work very much. People get screwed up when advertising convinces them they need iPods and Abercrombie jeans, but you don't need this crap. If you follow my advice you'll find it's just about as hard pulling it off as working a regular job, but its a hell of a lot of fun, and you don't have to wake up until noon. Then, some idiot violates your rights and pulls you over for not wearing your seatbelt, but that was another thread.
 
This thread has turned from the min. wage/ price of a gallon of milk to Republican /Democrat, I hate Bush, and those that think he?s God like he does.

There isn?t one politician these days that doesn?t owe somebody for helping them get in office. Even to run for damn head dogcatcher in a major city cost an arm and a leg. It use to start out with the County Commissioners taking bribes and changing zoning for their friends and big campaign contributors. Most commissioners had their eye on the State House or Congress.

Now wealthy political families groom there kids from childbirth to become president. I would just like to see us go outside the box of the Bushes and Kennedy?s to find someone that doesn?t owe anybody. It?s a shame that out of the millions of eligible people that could run for president we can?t do any better than elect two Bushes.

Someone should mow Congress down and start over again with one-year terms. If you don?t do what THE PEOPLE want your gone. I hate politicians. Johnnyt
 
pocketspeed said:
nothing accomplished? since 911 how many enemy strikes have taken place on US soil? you really think thats b/c they dont want to strike "the great satan"? those soldiers did gave their lives doing what they signed up to do. protect this country (you and i). to suggest their sacrifice was in vain devalues that very sacrifice. they are heroes.

everything has its price. where would we be without brave men and women willing to pay it?

brian
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The correlation it sounds like you've made between American military presence in Iraq and the lack of terrorist attacks on American soil is indirect, at best.
 
worriedbeef said:
You just don't get it do you. to say something like this you obviously have no understanding of the the people we are up against. THEY HATE OUR GUTS. we (england in my case, america for you, and the rest of the west) are the immoral unholy scum of the earth with our disgusting lifestyles. it's not just a case of leave them alone and they won't bother us. i wish it was that simple and we even had that option! they will always bother us because they hate us and our society because we are not muslims.

and in any case, often people confuse two issues as well. one whether it was right to go in in the first place, and two, how well we are handling it. the first is a no brainer in my opinion, it was morally right at the least. and second, i don't think it's nessecarilly been handled the best, but i'm no expert on the subject so i am not 100% sure to be honest. and how many of us are experts?
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This is correct, beef, and well put. Even though violent Muslims are a minority, since there are a billion or more Muslims out there, the 4 or 5% of Muslims who want to kill us is still 40 to 50 million. Let's think about that for a second.. That's only 4-5%... 40-50 million who want us dead. And some of them have a lot of money.

It's not a matter of what we have done to them, it is as beef said, what we are.. These are people like the Taliban who would kill a woman for being outside of her home without her husband. They see Western influence coming into their countries through satellite television (which can't be easily controlled) and it drives them absolutely NUTS. They see the "hot" channels (yeah, baybee!) coming in, and see THAT as a crime against Allah, and they look at America as a trendsetter (which we are) that exports fashion to other countries (which we do), and a main cause of women showing bare shoulders in their country. (Which we kind of are, because America is loved overseas as well as hated..)

So these nutjobs go off to remote villages and set up little schools in villages where the children would never have learned how to read otherwise. The parents are grateful, and allow their children to go to "school".

In these schools, the children are taught the most radical form of Islam, and are taught to devalue their own lives, and to hate all things Western. Should I bother to mention this sort of thing has been going on for a very, very, very long time? Loooooonnnnngggg before Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, etc.

Saying we created these people is the height of ignorance. It shows a total disconnection with the fundamental problem. The fundamental problem in the Middle East is that the majority of these people are poor and uneducated. Guess what? THIS IS NOT OUR FAULT.

The radical nutjobs who want to make the entire Middle East one big caliphate need to control the poor and uneducated somehow. They are brainwashed by their radical leaders to believe that anyone not like them is evil, and must be destroyed. Combine this with a total disregard for their own lives, and this created some very dangerous warriors.

And the leaders of the Middle Eastern countries are more than willing to go along with all this. Why? Here's why: They are sitting on BILLIONS upon BILLIONS of dollars that their royal family uses as it own personal bank account, which in effect, it is. They must distract the populace from the fact they are doing nothing to build the economies of their country. To make a better future for all of its' citizens. So these leaders let the radicals preach their hate against all things Western, to pull the attention of the populace away from themselves. Lies told by the radicals about the West DO NOT MATTER to these leaders.

Thanks for speaking up worriedbeef, and hopefully this post will educate a few people. I doubt it though. I've posted all this before..They have their own view of the way things are in the world, and the truth rarely matters.

Russ
 
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