Mis-identified Zylr on ebay less then 2 hrs
- Thread starter jdsons
- Start date
I don't know the guy. I never met him. I am talking about others who list cues as favors for their friends, I have seen that several times in the past. I agree it was the wrong move, however, it brings up an interesting topic...ethics in cue building. Is it wrong to put another cue makers accessories (i.e. butt cap...joint ect) on your cue. I am sorry for the post, but not sorry for what has evolved. I look forward to speaking with lit al.
jdsons
P.S. If I gave you the impression I know the seller that is my mistake. I just understand needing money for new responsiblites. That is how I got my screen name jd-sons.........four of them to be exact...
jdsons
P.S. If I gave you the impression I know the seller that is my mistake. I just understand needing money for new responsiblites. That is how I got my screen name jd-sons.........four of them to be exact...
Romero?Zylr?
I believe all Al's cues have a 3/8-10 joint. Kerry uses Unilock or 3/8-11. Al's cues are fat (mine's 1.240" at the butt), Kerry's are much more slim (mine's 1.225 at the butt). . Al's signature cue is an all maple plain jane with his name branded longway on the butt. For the Zylr butt cap to be installed, the rest of the butt would have to have been turned down to fit: too much work!
The changed butt cap bit as pretty wierd, but I wouldn't be stunned if this thing is 100% Zylr.
Then again, the seller didn't say it was a Romero, did he. Perhaps we'll find out.
I believe all Al's cues have a 3/8-10 joint. Kerry uses Unilock or 3/8-11. Al's cues are fat (mine's 1.240" at the butt), Kerry's are much more slim (mine's 1.225 at the butt). . Al's signature cue is an all maple plain jane with his name branded longway on the butt. For the Zylr butt cap to be installed, the rest of the butt would have to have been turned down to fit: too much work!
The changed butt cap bit as pretty wierd, but I wouldn't be stunned if this thing is 100% Zylr.
Then again, the seller didn't say it was a Romero, did he. Perhaps we'll find out.
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I don't believe...
...that Little Al or pretty much any other known cuemaker would put a butt cap of another cuemaker's on their cue, even if the customer asked for it that way. I would love to hear what Kerry Zyler would have to say, if it were indeed fact. The cue does look a lot like a Zyler, or at least the butt section does. Shaft doesn't appear to be original. Wonder if the guy meant that he had Little Al make him a shaft and put it on his butt. A lot of people get somewhat confused with the names of the parts of cues, etc.
...that Little Al or pretty much any other known cuemaker would put a butt cap of another cuemaker's on their cue, even if the customer asked for it that way. I would love to hear what Kerry Zyler would have to say, if it were indeed fact. The cue does look a lot like a Zyler, or at least the butt section does. Shaft doesn't appear to be original. Wonder if the guy meant that he had Little Al make him a shaft and put it on his butt. A lot of people get somewhat confused with the names of the parts of cues, etc.
This should end it.
I received an e-mail from Kerry and he says it is 100% his cue. I spoke with him on the phone (minutes ago) to explain the lit al element. Kerry said, lit al would not piece together a cue the way that was explained. Also, lit al does not use uni-loc joints, never has never will.
Other news. Kerry gets $650 per sneaky pete with one shaft. The joint will be 3/8-11 (exclusively not more uni-loc or anything else) and it will be buckhorn to buckhorn. The wait is 4 to 6 months.
jdsons
P.S. Bad new I think I am going to pull the trigger on a player's cue from Kerry. He is the nices guy to talk to and it is hard not to do business with him. He asked me not to post the e-mail he wrote me, it is for my information only.
P.P.S. He is also an AZ member, but does not have a lot of time to spend on here. Thanks again Kerry.
I received an e-mail from Kerry and he says it is 100% his cue. I spoke with him on the phone (minutes ago) to explain the lit al element. Kerry said, lit al would not piece together a cue the way that was explained. Also, lit al does not use uni-loc joints, never has never will.
Other news. Kerry gets $650 per sneaky pete with one shaft. The joint will be 3/8-11 (exclusively not more uni-loc or anything else) and it will be buckhorn to buckhorn. The wait is 4 to 6 months.
jdsons
P.S. Bad new I think I am going to pull the trigger on a player's cue from Kerry. He is the nices guy to talk to and it is hard not to do business with him. He asked me not to post the e-mail he wrote me, it is for my information only.
P.P.S. He is also an AZ member, but does not have a lot of time to spend on here. Thanks again Kerry.
Hmmm.. Cue ethics... Alas where is Jimbo when you need him 
chris
chris
agree
I also fill the need to clarify little al rep. He is a great guy and builds a nice cue. I hope this thread does not tarnish his rep with the pool community. He has alway been approachable and a great asset to the game, with his skill and product.
jdsons
P.S. He is located in Hardtimes, Bellflower, Ca..Ph #(562) 867-3580, so you can order that travelling player (sneaky pete).
I also fill the need to clarify little al rep. He is a great guy and builds a nice cue. I hope this thread does not tarnish his rep with the pool community. He has alway been approachable and a great asset to the game, with his skill and product.
jdsons
P.S. He is located in Hardtimes, Bellflower, Ca..Ph #(562) 867-3580, so you can order that travelling player (sneaky pete).
Lil Al is not tarnished..
People often have stories about their cue, etc. There was just no way that any respected cuemaker would "plagarize" the work of another cuemaker like this. They have absolutely nothing to gain from it and everything to lose. Think of the repercusions if the detective work had proven the original claim to have been true. Just not worth it, no way, no how.
jdsons said:
People often have stories about their cue, etc. There was just no way that any respected cuemaker would "plagarize" the work of another cuemaker like this. They have absolutely nothing to gain from it and everything to lose. Think of the repercusions if the detective work had proven the original claim to have been true. Just not worth it, no way, no how.
Congrats on 3000 posts. That's a lot of dancing the Bump.ChrisOnline said:Hmmm.. Cue ethics... Alas where is Jimbo when you need him
chris
I don't think it is unethical to recycle a nice butt section of a broken cue for a customer who requests you to do such. As long as the cue is not misreprsented.
rackem said:Congrats on 3000 posts. That's a lot of dancing the Bump.
I don't think it is unethical to recycle a nice butt section of a broken cue for a customer who requests you to do such. As long as the cue is not misreprsented.
I do, unless you remove the logo, etc. It is not necessarily that the current owner would not misrepresent the cue, but a couple of owners down the road would probably have no clue as to what had been done and that is was not what it appeared to be. Don't put a TS logo butt cap on a KC cue.
Agreed, But what if the Butt is something ovious like a Tad? Or Window Palmer? That was broken and could only live on by being reused. Handle replaced, forearm replaced. Could not that be considered a total reconstruction. Would it then be alright to retain the logo in that case?Bamacues said:
rackem said:Congrats on 3000 posts. That's a lot of dancing the Bump.
I don't think it is unethical to recycle a nice butt section of a broken cue for a customer who requests you to do such. As long as the cue is not misreprsented.
not many of my posts are from bumps.. i used to delete them everytime i bumped a thread.. that way they wouldnt load threads down.. that was untill the delete a post feature went away..
chris
Little Al has not made one cue with UniLoc pin and Delrin buttcap as far as I know.
That is a Zylr of course. Long butt collar with short shaft collar.
The lightning on the Delrin buttcap is a Zylr laseredged logo.
Efren's signature doesn't make the cue worth a dollar more.
Efren has signed thousands of cues. Hell if you go to Lory, he can sign Efren's name perfectly too. LOL
That is a Zylr of course. Long butt collar with short shaft collar.
The lightning on the Delrin buttcap is a Zylr laseredged logo.
Efren's signature doesn't make the cue worth a dollar more.
Efren has signed thousands of cues. Hell if you go to Lory, he can sign Efren's name perfectly too. LOL
JoeyInCali said:
Absolutly true... I remember back when I collected autographs as a kid, I use to shake my head at people that would go to baseball card shows and get Mickey Mantle to sign a baseball card that was worth $500 to $1000. They all thought that this would increase the value when in actuallity it turned a $1000 card into a $150 card (the value of Mickey's autograph).
good point...
...and I don't know. Tad's are not obvious to everyone, I don't think, but I could see a Palmer Window butt being utilized somewhere. I guess, in that case, it would be something like a Titlist conversion, but it would probably be signed or marked as a conversion (but not necessarily, I don't think). If the purpose was to rebuild a tribute cue or a conversion and it was clearly identified/marked as such, I could but it.
Unfortunately, most folks who try to do this are trying to deceive the purchaser. I am aware of a cue being shown to Tim Scruggs about a year ago as one of his cues. Tim knew that he did not make the cue. In this case, the person who bought the cue thought he had indeed purchased a real nice Scruggs, but that was not the case. Of course, there are plenty of counterfeit cues out there, especially "pre-date" Southwests.
rackem said:Agreed, But what if the Butt is something ovious like a Tad? Or Window Palmer? That was broken and could only live on by being reused. Handle replaced, forearm replaced. Could not that be considered a total reconstruction. Would it then be alright to retain the logo in that case?
...and I don't know. Tad's are not obvious to everyone, I don't think, but I could see a Palmer Window butt being utilized somewhere. I guess, in that case, it would be something like a Titlist conversion, but it would probably be signed or marked as a conversion (but not necessarily, I don't think). If the purpose was to rebuild a tribute cue or a conversion and it was clearly identified/marked as such, I could but it.
Unfortunately, most folks who try to do this are trying to deceive the purchaser. I am aware of a cue being shown to Tim Scruggs about a year ago as one of his cues. Tim knew that he did not make the cue. In this case, the person who bought the cue thought he had indeed purchased a real nice Scruggs, but that was not the case. Of course, there are plenty of counterfeit cues out there, especially "pre-date" Southwests.
JoeyInCali said:
Precisely why I asked the seller about the buttcap and the logo. His answer to me, which I posted, seems to imply that the butt is not Kerry's work thus I didn't pursue the cue very hard. Anyone who knows cue would be dumb to list the cue as Lil Al when it's Zylr and I don't think the seller is dumb at all (he had another cue, higher end Schon listed for sale).
Did anyone else correspond with the seller?
I am lost too how he listed the cue that way.Jazz said:
I wonder if it would have sold for a lot less had it not been flagged here.
I don't think Kerry is making any more two-tone joint collars.
Stag to stag with the big pin hits better imo.