Mitch Ellerman Ripped Off at Galveston Tournament

jay helfert said:
This is the best you can do to defend your part in holding the raffle? Jump all over me for sticking up for Mitch? So you think Mitch should have had "to work" to get his furniture. Pretty telling statement there Bobby.

I seriously doubt that you do read this forum. If you had, you would have seen me commending you and Taylor Road on the Galveston World Classic. But that isn't the point here. Bobby, you produced the event, including the raffle. You had a responsibility to see that things were handled fairly. You can flail at me all you want and that doesn't change anything.

One last thing Mr. Rone. I've run a few tournaments too and we've had raffles for heavy objects like pool tables. I made certain that the winner got his prize. And NOT ONCE did they ever have to pay for shipping!
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YOU LIE !!! You are wrong on this shipping thing and I doubt you ever paid a dime to ship anything anywhere. You are a vindictive, jealous guy that thinks he is taking up a cause and is dead wrong. So Taylor Road didn't hire you to be tournament director, get over it Jay.
 
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Black-Balled said:
I will be there in my Mitch shirt to let everyone know about the raffle scam.:rolleyes:
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You may have to settle for going to the aquarium and the IMAX theater because I doubt there will be another pool tournament, thanks to guys like Jay Helfert. Good work Jay.
 
watchez said:
Bobby-

Can you answer what your background is in the professional world?

Just an FYI, when you own a business (Taylor Road or GWC qualify as such), you are responsible for everything that comes with it - even if you directed someone else to carry out a project (in this case, the gaffle). You are responsible for the way your employees act as well. To just wash your hands of it saying that you were not involved in the gaffle, simply doesn't cut it.

Also, what was your business exit plan if you received poor attendance making the event have a negative balance - first, short the players on the guaranteed money? You state you aren't a liar. Ok, so what happened to your guarantee on the money for the event?
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The raffle winner abandoned his prize for over 3 months, that's what doesn't cut it. Why can't you wrap your tiny brain around that ?
 
Pool will never get anywhere until it understands that things are black and white - and there is no gray.

Do you think that the owner of the Yankees tells his players, well I expected the game to sell out but since we only got 30,000 fans so your paycheck for today will be 60%. You should have read the fine print. And don't argue with me about symantecs.

Bobby and his buddies put on this tournament to make money. Period. They are the ones that should have realized the system, no one else.
 
Black-Balled said:
And, BOOM. There it is.

Why didn't Mitch get treated the same (aka: fairly)? Because he is a victim. A victim of discrimination.

He could pursue the cash value of unpaid prize, legal fees, punitive amount too. I am sure there are plenty of lawyers that would take 60% with no $ down...

Nice business plan, Rone. Why don't you just hand him a signed blank check? Glad I learned about you for free.

Geeenyus alert!
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Let me take a crack at this one. UHHH, because Boradriver made a deal to sell IN A TIMELY MANNER, probably before he left Galveston?
 
watchez said:
Pool will never get anywhere until it understands that things are black and white - and there is no gray.

Do you think that the owner of the Yankees tells his players, well I expected the game to sell out but since we only got 30,000 fans so your paycheck for today will be 60%. You should have read the fine print. And don't argue with me about symantecs.

Bobby and his buddies put on this tournament to make money. Period. They are the ones that should have realized the system, no one else.
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If you can do better, why don't you, Knocker? When is your tournament where you put up $100K or more?

Isn't your main beef that J.R. Calvert was hired to do the streaming and not TAR? Be honest now.
 
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punter said:
If you can do better, why don't you, Knocker?
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At least you finally admit that they didn't do good. And again, if you read this thread before just chiming in you would learn that when I state something - it happens. Once again, that is called accountability.

Nice try attempting to blame Jay for another GWC not going to happen. Surely players would still show up to buy more gaffle tickets and be short paid if Jay had just kept his mouth shut. :confused:

And please refrain from lowering yourself to the name calling and inuendos in your posts. It makes you look weak. Continue following me around, I like having you as a shadow. I notice you reference me in posts outside this thread as well. That is special.
 
watchez said:
At least you finally admit that they didn't do good. And again, if you read this thread before just chiming in you would learn that when I state something - it happens. Once again, that is called accountability.

Nice try attempting to blame Jay for another GWC not going to happen. Surely players would still show up to buy more gaffle tickets and be short paid if Jay had just kept his mouth shut. :confused:

And please refrain from lowering yourself to the name calling and inuendos in your posts. It makes you look weak. Continue following me around, I like having you as a shadow. I notice you reference me in posts outside this thread as well. That is special.
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When is your tournament where you put up $100K +.

And again, isn't your whole agenda here to knock a tournament that hired J.R. Calvert, because you have a problem with him?
 
punter said:
When is your tournament where you put up $100K +.

And again, isn't your whole agenda here to knock a tournament that hired J.R. Calvert, because you have a problem with him?
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If I was going to put up 100K, it wouldn't be in a pool tournament. Surely you can figure that out. But does that make Bobby and his crew better than me - and did they actually put up 100K anyways.

p.s. I was involved in about $20K of Golden Tee tournaments last year. Much better return on the investment. So good that a few of the big supporters of pool on this site are going to get involved in 2010.

Yes - I don't agree with JR Calvert's business practices either. I wouldn't be surprised if you did agree with them. Ever go to his forum site - it got about 5 posts today but miraculiously 1000 users were signed in at all times. Search on these forums, you can also read about people paying for things they didn't receive. Sound familiar?? But other tournaments utilize JR (DCC or BCA for example) and although I find that a little concerning, the accountability that these organizations have within themselves make it something that I can overlook and support. If you want to support a gaffle and short pays, step to the front of the line.
 
watchez said:
If I was going to put up 100K, it wouldn't be in a pool tournament. Surely you can figure that out. But does that make Bobby and his crew better than me - and did they actually put up 100K anyways.

p.s. I was involved in about $20K of Golden Tee tournaments last year. Much better return on the investment. So good that a few of the big supporters of pool on this site are going to get involved in 2010.

Yes - I don't agree with JR Calvert's business practices either. I wouldn't be surprised if you did agree with them. Ever go to his forum site - it got about 5 posts today but miraculiously 1000 users were signed in at all times. Search on these forums, you can also read about people paying for things they didn't receive. Sound familiar?? But other tournaments utilize JR (DCC or BCA for example) and although I find that a little concerning, the accountability that these organizations have within themselves make it something that I can overlook and support. If you want to support a gaffle and short pays, step to the front of the line.
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I will support a group that I believe made an honest effort to do something big for pool, realizing, as you state in your post, that they would probably lose money on the deal. I also hope Mitch gets satisfaction, but I still believe he is partly to blame for his problems. The thing that bothers me is the hatchet job being done here on the pretense that it is really about a raffle. I'm sure that the Op's goal was to help a friend, I think the way he did it was a poor choice. As for some others, I think they may have a problem with 'outsiders' doing anything in pool.
 
punter said:
YOU LIE !!! You are wrong on this shipping thing and I doubt you ever paid a dime to ship anything anywhere. You are a vindictive, jealous guy that thinks he is taking up a cause and is dead wrong. So Taylor Road didn't hire you to be tournament director, get over it Jay.
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You're intellect is showing! Or lack of it. What's a Punter anyway?
 
punter said:
You may have to settle for going to the aquarium and the IMAX theater because I doubt there will be another pool tournament, thanks to guys like Jay Helfert. Good work Jay.
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No more tournaments, but I'm sure they'll have lots of raffles! :rolleyes:
You should buy a ticket. Maybe you'll get lucky. I'd pay a lot of money to see you carrying a pool table on your back. :eek:
 
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pro9dg said:
Whoa Jay
I have been doing a bit of digging and here is what I was told.
The first lot of furniture was sold for a sum authorised by the winner. The purchaser did take a while to pay but all that has gone through and the raffle winner No1 has got his money.

The second lot (Mitch's prize) laid around the venue for a week and had to be removed to the home of one of the promoters because the venue wanted to use the space. Mitch was contacted and asked to either claim and remove it or alternatively give his permission for it to be sold off. Since it has been stored in the promoters house (taking up space) they have called the owner six times without response. This is how it was told to me and I have no reason to question this version of the story. Get it picked up or give the go ahead to sell it Mitch.
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I guess Jay missed this one.
 
gpeezy said:
That whole this was a heist. The money draw was really messed up and misleading. I know a few people that were jacked on that deal. The guy that runs that is a crook. Saw him at the open also. I don't think Ashley Furniture had anything to do with the money draw but it was total bs.
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Did the same guy run a raffle at the open too? I thought I heard a table was raffled there and delivery was not included either.

Wow, maybe Jay can blast Barry B. for awhile, oh, wait, that's right Jay was TD there wasn't he. I guess Barry gets a pass.
 
Well it looks like Mitch did not get anything and no answers, he did not wait 3 months, its been 3 months as of now, this thread has been on here for a month and a half. It is obvious the furniture was sold or given away, Mr. Rone do the right thing and give Mitch something fair for it. Merry Christmas to everyone and goodnight. :smile:
 
punter said:
I will support a group that I believe made an honest effort to do something big for pool, realizing, as you state in your post, that they would probably lose money on the deal. I also hope Mitch gets satisfaction, but I still believe he is partly to blame for his problems. The thing that bothers me is the hatchet job being done here on the pretense that it is really about a raffle. I'm sure that the Op's goal was to help a friend, I think the way he did it was a poor choice. As for some others, I think they may have a problem with 'outsiders' doing anything in pool.
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I percieve it the same way as do you. I was a little skeptical last year when I heard about the GWC tournament, and was unable to get a lot of info about the particulars. Nevertheless, I decided to attend the event, mostly because there are so few large one-pocket events held anywhere.

I was delighted to find out first-hand that no money was spared on the venue, the equipment, the staff, and all the extras. It was obvious that the promoters had spent hundreds of thousands of dollars, and would not be able to recoup a large percentage of it. That this team would be willing spend such a large amount of money in order to put on an event of this scope simply on the belief that it would build in the future was very impressive.

Mark Griffin and Greg Sullivan took a similar gamble at their first DCC (was it 1999?). One difference then was that the pool sites weren't developed to where posters could get on public forums and lambast the promoters. The DCC has gone on to become one of the very top events in the world. But I'm sure they had loads of speed bumps the first year or two. It would be interesting to read some comments from Mark Griffin about their first couple of years.

I just hope that Rone and his people don't get fed up, and decide not to continue their quest to offer another quality big event in pool. I'm guessing that they've learned a bunch from their first event, and that their second one will be even better!

Doc
 
If i'm bringing up something that was already discussed plse accept my apology for being redundant.

Was anything posted and or discussed prior to the raffle applicable to tax liabilities/delivery? The raffles i've been a participant in/witnessed at pool tourneys have been win and carry. A friend won a MUSTANG GT at a local casino and he was responsible for sales tax at retail.

Does anyone know where the furniture is now?
 
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