you gotta think WWBGD
what would Bert Gordon do
what would Bert Gordon do
Morality, Money and Pool. Where do you stand?
- Thread starter crawfish
- Start date
I like pulling up the instant you see the guy has a problem, and saying "I can't bet you any more. I wouldn't feel right if I took anyone's rent and food money." I'd give half back. By phrasing it this way it's less lecturing than "you shouldn't be gambling the rent and food money" and he can save face. If he has a problem with the half-back you can say it's a walking stick and it's how everyone does it where you come from.
I don't like beating him out of every dime and then trying to give it back, he might refuse to take it back out of pride or he'd feel like you're patronizing him. I think people with a gambling problem (i.e. anyone who'd bet the rent and groceries) don't see losing it all as "OMG I just lost it all! I need to quit gambling entirely!" ...I think they see it as "Well after a bad luck streak like this, I'm definitely due to turn it around now. Let me think of who else I can borrow from..."
I don't like beating him out of every dime and then trying to give it back, he might refuse to take it back out of pride or he'd feel like you're patronizing him. I think people with a gambling problem (i.e. anyone who'd bet the rent and groceries) don't see losing it all as "OMG I just lost it all! I need to quit gambling entirely!" ...I think they see it as "Well after a bad luck streak like this, I'm definitely due to turn it around now. Let me think of who else I can borrow from..."
I think you did the right thing. When you learned about the circumstances it was about you not about him.
My first reaction was to beat him then give it to his wife to teach him a lesson. However, you are not his therapist and it is his problem not yours. There are simply too many problems getting into that scenario -- none of which you needed
The real issue here is living with yourself, and you will sleep well as a result of your actions.
If it was a con (and that is doubtful given the story), shame on him, you have not really lost anything and have gained a sense of self satisfaction that you are the man you think you are.
BTW, I asked my good friend, a truck driver, serious gambler, and a manly man kinda guy. He would have done as you did (without knowing your response). So I think there is much support for your behavior from many types of guys.
My first reaction was to beat him then give it to his wife to teach him a lesson. However, you are not his therapist and it is his problem not yours. There are simply too many problems getting into that scenario -- none of which you needed
The real issue here is living with yourself, and you will sleep well as a result of your actions.
If it was a con (and that is doubtful given the story), shame on him, you have not really lost anything and have gained a sense of self satisfaction that you are the man you think you are.
BTW, I asked my good friend, a truck driver, serious gambler, and a manly man kinda guy. He would have done as you did (without knowing your response). So I think there is much support for your behavior from many types of guys.
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John Barton
New member
crawfish said:
I would have done the exact same thing you did. And if I was getting conned - so what? I would have figured that the guy was helpless and it didn't do anything for me to beat him but it would do me a lot of good to show some mercy. You came out winner, got free breakfast, table time and gas money so you did all right.
Good Karma points for you!
John Barton
New member
Blackjack said:
May I ask how it's a con IF the guy getting "conned" makes money? I mean seriously that has got to be the dumbest con on earth. Let me lose five hundred to someone I don't know and then I will have my pregnant wife come in and lay a sob story down so I can win some of it back??????
It would be a little different if he called his wife and "argued" with her and she brings in a grand and he says "screw it, let's play a set for a $1000", and then shows some speed.
But the sob story when you're down? Seriously, that's weak if you are counting on it. Seems awfully low percentage to me as far as cons go.
respectfully, don't ever quit your job and try to make your money playing pool. i would have robbed this guy for the most i possibly could with making sure i get out of there ok as my only indicator of when to stop.
listen very closely, you are actually degrading this guy in my opinion. i would have treated him like a man, and he is one! this is a full grown man capable of making decisions in his life, if you want to blatanlty say (without actually saying it), that he's a brainless idiot with no chance and not a dime in the world that's fine, i'd give him more respect and have money. another thing, this guy could actually have bags of money. the fact is you really have no idea.
so, what you did (respectfully) is lose money and treated a full grown man like a 12 year old. i think you should change your philosophy or just not play the guy in the first place, but dont do what you did.
listen very closely, you are actually degrading this guy in my opinion. i would have treated him like a man, and he is one! this is a full grown man capable of making decisions in his life, if you want to blatanlty say (without actually saying it), that he's a brainless idiot with no chance and not a dime in the world that's fine, i'd give him more respect and have money. another thing, this guy could actually have bags of money. the fact is you really have no idea.
so, what you did (respectfully) is lose money and treated a full grown man like a 12 year old. i think you should change your philosophy or just not play the guy in the first place, but dont do what you did.
There's a thought
A full grown man with two balls the worst of it, maybe more. His wife watching intently and his five year old running around asking for candy and change to play video games. To each his own. Have you ever went busted? I mean REALLY busted. I wasn't going to take that chance, that I left them short on cash for daily expenses. You do what you want. All of this "con" talk and "I'd have busted him" talk is EXACTLY why pool players can't get sponsored and pool players are viewed, in the US, as vultures that will do anything for a buck.enzo said:
crawfish said:
to each their own, to look at it in another context, can you imagine a pit boss in vegas giving some guy his money back if his wife came in in the same type situation. you just really need to learn how to look at things, or don't play. i only critisize you because you think you did the guy a favor but you actually treated about the worst a human can be treated, you gave (or played) his money back to him out of pity. that is degrading another human being. anyway, as i said, to each their own, try not to be too judgemental about how others view this situation.
John Barton
New member
enzo said:
Which is why I am glad at 18 that I decided the pool hustler life isn't the one I want to lead.
I played a guy twice who wouldn't quit. The first time I didn't know him so I beat him for whatever I could and he ended up owing me $400. The next time we played I started out giving him a spot and we played for what he owed and I beat him again. And I continued to beat him until he was down about $1500. I forgave him half of it and he still owes me $750.
Well last week he made me $15,000 because he forwarded me an email that landed me a $40,000 sale and $15,000 of it is mine.
Now, I could have been a real ass and stuck him up good for everything he owed me. He knew that he had no chance but couldn't stop gambling. So I gambled myself and bet on our relationship rather than sabotaging that for an extra $750 than I might never see anyway.
And NOW I will never ask him for the money. If he pays me, great! If he doesn't who cares?
The point is that you have to do what you are prepared to live with. And if robbing people is what a player is about then they have to live with the idea that everyone is out to rob them.
I prefer to be benevolent when I can and in my life that has paid me back in friendships and trust and gratitude and money more than I can possibly count.
crawfish said:
Well, Crawfish... you did ask us to be honest. If I knew that this would turn into a shitslinging contest and namecalling, I would have avoided the thread altogether. FWIW, if I am being honest, I would never have lost on purpose to anyone for any reason. To me it sounded like a con, I'm glad it wasn't. Having never been in your shoes in this situation, I can't really say what I would have done, but I do admire your act of compassion. I agree with others that at some point this guy and his wife probably blew the money some other way. I'm not sure the guy really learned anything, but I think the experience was worth it for you because you learned something about yourself. Congratulations, on behalf of unsponsored vultures everywhere.
John Barton said:
Can I get one of those emails?????
FWIW, beat the dude down...give walking stick to wifey.... Tell dude to stop giving shit away............simple...
Keep enough to hurt him...but not hurt the Fam... if you were conn'ed oh well...at least you sleep and walk out with cash...
or better yet ...beat him out of his cue..if its decent...keep the cue..teach the lesson
I didn't read the middle pages of Posts, so pardon any redundancy.
It amazes me how most people are focused on the game of pool and the associated morality - or lack thereof. This isn't about "POOL", it's about GAMBLING.
This particular pool match was merely the game of the day for that guy. Pool is the vehicle that he chose to gamble with, and you were his gambling opponent. Odds are he has lost that money since then, whether it's on darts, poker, shooting cans, beer guzzling or even another pool game.
So did you teach this bad gambler a lesson? No. But you can sleep at night knowing that you didn't take advantage of him.
But one question remains: had the results been reversed, and you were stuck $300+, do you really think he would have taken a dive?? Hell, no! He would have bled you ass dry until your ATM withdraw limit was reached. Then he would have played you for your watch, your cue and anything else of value.
I can GAR-RUN-FAAKIN-TEEEE you that he's told everyone that he has the heart of a lion and he fought back, and almost got even - after all your lucky rolls. The only reason he's "stuck a lil' bit" is because you pulled up winner. Had you played longer, he would have been a big winner.
-von
It amazes me how most people are focused on the game of pool and the associated morality - or lack thereof. This isn't about "POOL", it's about GAMBLING.
This particular pool match was merely the game of the day for that guy. Pool is the vehicle that he chose to gamble with, and you were his gambling opponent. Odds are he has lost that money since then, whether it's on darts, poker, shooting cans, beer guzzling or even another pool game.
So did you teach this bad gambler a lesson? No. But you can sleep at night knowing that you didn't take advantage of him.
But one question remains: had the results been reversed, and you were stuck $300+, do you really think he would have taken a dive?? Hell, no! He would have bled you ass dry until your ATM withdraw limit was reached. Then he would have played you for your watch, your cue and anything else of value.
I can GAR-RUN-FAAKIN-TEEEE you that he's told everyone that he has the heart of a lion and he fought back, and almost got even - after all your lucky rolls. The only reason he's "stuck a lil' bit" is because you pulled up winner. Had you played longer, he would have been a big winner.
-von
In all honesty
In all honesty, I was almost mad at myself that I didn't torture the guy and worry about it later. Because, like most of you said, he probably went off somewhere to someone else. I guess I am trying to justify (to myself) my actions. I almost felt weak for giving him some cash back. But, to the people who have no problem with it, morally, at all--- Man, that's pretty hardcore. If the thought never crosses your mind about leaving a whole family short on bill money, I feel for you.Blackjack said:Well, Crawfish... you did ask us to be honest. If I knew that this would turn into a shitslinging contest and namecalling, I would have avoided the thread altogether. FWIW, if I am being honest, I would never have lost on purpose to anyone for any reason. To me it sounded like a con, I'm glad it wasn't. Having never been in your shoes in this situation, I can't really say what I would have done, but I do admire your act of compassion. I agree with others that at some point this guy and his wife probably blew the money some other way. I'm not sure the guy really learned anything, but I think the experience was worth it for you because you learned something about yourself. Congratulations, on behalf of unsponsored vultures everywhere.
From the responses you got, you should have titled your thread "What price do you put on a man's pride". Some would have charged him as much as he was willing to pay, along with his wife. Fats said it right when he said he wouldn't take a drunk's money, or money from the working man.
I think you did the right thing. Let the other guys have their opinion. What matters is that you can look yourself in the mirror and know you did a good thing for him. If any of these other guys felt like torturing him, that's between them and their conscience. If they want to crucify him, they can. Usually, what comes around goes around.
I think you did the right thing. Let the other guys have their opinion. What matters is that you can look yourself in the mirror and know you did a good thing for him. If any of these other guys felt like torturing him, that's between them and their conscience. If they want to crucify him, they can. Usually, what comes around goes around.
Yes, in the end you have to live with yourself. Regrets are a dime a dozen, and we'll all have more than we want by the time we (hopefully) reach old age. I would have regretted taking money out of a household that obviously needed it more than me, and that's why I would have given it back... to the wife.
Aaron
Aaron
Ezekiel 25:17. "The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you."
Say it for me again, Julius.
Say it for me again, Julius.