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- Thread starter Tim5000
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Andrew Manning said:
Actually, I don't see any simliarity. Bialystock and Bloom, the two main characters in The Producers, chose to produce a play about Hitler BECAUSE they were absolutely certain it would offend its audience, thereby ensuring the flop they needed for the fraudulent production to be lucrative. They were so confident that placing humor and Nazi images side by side would be extremely objectionable to many that they began celebrating the play's demise prematurely.
It's not my intention to sound holier than though, but the picture, the comparison, especially to a German who most likely despises the bad history of his country, ... not exactly my idea of humor. Humor like that serves one purpose, whether intentional or not: to further separate those who are sensitive to the subject matter from those who are not sensitive to the subject matter.
I'm not Jewish or German, and I cringed. And I haven't looked at it again like the train wreck it is. I have to believe the greater majority also cringed.
Fred
I'm not Jewish or German, and I cringed. And I haven't looked at it again like the train wreck it is. I have to believe the greater majority also cringed.
Fred
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Timberly
Guest
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that corvette doesn't fully understand the beliefs of Jews compared to Christians. I'm one of the most uninformed people you'll ever meet when it comes to religions and the different beliefs and practices. (in the end, we're all human, right?) Because of this, I could've easily had made a Santa comment and been completely clueless as to why Jude would be so offended by it.corvette1340 said:
Honestly, all I knew about Jews and Christmas was that during the holiday season, Jews celebrated Chanukah (aka Hanukkah). Knowing this and only this, when it comes to this time of the year and the Jewish community, I decided to do a little looking around online to find out what the differences were to be able to better understand why Jude was so upset over the Santa reference.
Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Jesus and Santa's only purpose is to distribute gifts in celebration of this birthday. (someone please correct me if I'm wrong)
Jews do not believe that Jesus was the Messiah as the Christians do. (there are of course, many reasons for this disbelief) In order to keep this short, I'm going to skip why the Jews do not believe this. Suffice it to say, if the Jews do not believe Jesus to be the Messiah, they do not celebrate his birth as Christians do. Because of this, they do not celebrate Christmas. Santa is a Representative of the Christian belief, not the Jewish belief's.
Jude is under the impression that Corvette knew this and made the Santa comment as a jab. I'm under the impression that Corvette didn't know this and is truly at a loss as to why Jude would be so offended by the comment.
Corvette, if you knew all along... forgive me for assuming you didn't. I just try to put myself in peoples positions sometimes and I know that I could've made that mistake and not had a clue. If nothing else, maybe there's someone out there reading this that also didn't know and now they know.
Here's a blog type page from a Jewish fella that puts the "Why Jews don't believe in Jesus" story into a nutshell.
http://www.beingjewish.com/toshuv/whynotbrief.html
sjm said:
Yet surely you see that Mel Brooks DID put humor and Hitler side by side in The Producers? The play Bialystock and Bloom chose to produce which was supposed to glorify Hitler, which is why it was so sure to be offensive, not merely because it contained both humor and Hitler. There's (bad) humor that makes light of the holocaust, and there's humor that uses a Nazi image in a way that makes no statement whatsoever about the holocaust. This thread was the latter.
-Andrew
I guess the best thing for the Moderators on AZ to do is to ban anyone that tries to start a thread that may be humorous and tries to make people laugh a little. Ban them....Do not pass GO, Do not collect $200. Otherwise we will all be walking on egg-shells. I am not unsympathetic to the Holocaust victims and their families, but I find it hard to believe that this thread that was started in pure innocence has taken such a drastic turn based on someone saying two people looked a little alike.
Southpaw
Southpaw
Timberly said:
How so? Santa is pretty secular. The modern day Santa bears practicaly no resemblance to St. Nicholas. Some Christians don't like Santa to be the focus of Christmas and so refuse to teach their kids about Santa or give gifts to their kids that are "from Santa". Most Christians don't think it is a big deal and keep the two separate. Someone has already pointed out that Santa is pretty secular and is observed as a Christmas character in other countries that aren't Christian in majority.
There are plenty of non Christians in this country, and I bet their kids get gifts from Santa. Jude may chose to believe that a fat guy in a red suit that can scale the inside of chimneys and fly across the sky under the power of ungulates is somehow Christian and it offends him, but it is a relatively ridiculous notion that the mere mention of santa bringing him a gift of a different attitude is anti semitic or anti Jewish or anti anything.
Kelly
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Timberly
Guest
I didn't say that it was or wasn't ridiculous. I simply stated something about the Jewish belief's that Corvette may or may not have known and how that could possibly be the reason that Jude was offended by the comment.Kelly_Guy said:
I'm sure Jude has felt that he was being attacked by some of the folks in this thread. Enter Corvette making an innocent joke about Santa (not having any idea of the actual Jewish belief's) and then enter Jude thinking that Corvette knew and felt that it was a jab at him.
I'm not going to get into my thoughts on this thread as a whole from begining up until now and I even hesitated to make the initial post that I did. I simply felt the need to point out that not everyone is all knowing in the different religions and that it's quite possible that Corvette had no idea and that Jude misunderstood an innocent Santa comment to be an attack or jab at him.
I've got nothing more to say on this.
NYC cue dude
Banned
Kelly_Guy said:
i disagree.
The thought of one of the most definitve christian symbols (outside of the cross), santa, delivering an attitude adjustment to a jew, suggesting that the jew should "lighten up" and should have a sense of humor regarding a nazi complicit in the murder of millions of people IS DEFINTELY anti-semetic. There is no amount of explanations or rationalizations that will ever make me think differently either.
A few weeks ago, in a thread about "best deals ever on a cue", someone wrote that during the process of getting a really good price on a cue, the poster, already satisfied on the price, figured "he wouldn't attempt to jew him down anymore"
I was appalled, and called for a public apology. Not only didn't it happen, but other posters continued contributing to the thread (not unlike this situation) without mentioning the hateful use of speech.
And that is how I feel now. I am really disgusted as well.
The people who knew about the holocaust, and stood by and did nothing to help, share, imo (and many historical scholars, both jewish and gentile), some guilt in contributing to the atrocities. Again, very much like this situation.
I know Jude, but have not spoken with him about this, but i'd venture a guess that this too has contributed to his reaction.
rg
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So basically if a picture of Hitler or Himmler or any of the other Nazi scumbags are shown in history books in schools, the jewish kids should just get up and leave the room until that part of the history lesson is over, right? And if a picture of Bin Laden is shown in schools, then the American kids should walk out? It was a picture. It had no kind of subtitle or comment other than there was a similarity to Ralf. As for the Santa Claus remark, I know Corvette very well and I dont think he meant it as a slap in the face to Jude. If this was April, he would have said he hoped the Easter Bunny would bring him a sense of humor. This whole thing has been blown way out of proprtion and some are upset for no reason! I have always enjoyed Jude's posts and hate to see him leave, but I do think he is over-reacting to a degree.
Southpaw
Southpaw
NYC cue dude
Banned
Southpaw said:
dude is about as heavy handed as walt whitman with tones striking that deep.
Id say roll with the punches and land a few hits back at em.
hitler didnt even fit the mastermold he so prized, whats that say about the consensus of German thought pre WW2.
{_____________ personal signing thingy area__________}
Im fighter not a lover
Id say roll with the punches and land a few hits back at em.
hitler didnt even fit the mastermold he so prized, whats that say about the consensus of German thought pre WW2.
{_____________ personal signing thingy area__________}
Im fighter not a lover
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NYC cue dude said:
I don't believe that is the case. Like I said, some Christians don't allow santa in their home. He is a secular character. You may think santa is "one of the most definitive christian symbols", but many people don't. Do many non Christians put their kids on santa's lap at the mall? Yes. Do many Christians not teach santa to their kids? Yes. Those two facts don't support your claim that santa is "one of the most definitive christian symbols". I don't think I can ever remember santa being discussed in Sunday school class or from the pulpit. He certainly isn't in the new testament.
Kelly
NYC cue dude
Banned
Kelly_Guy said:
the perception that santa is a symbol of christianity doesn't necessarily mean that all or even most (although i believe most do) christians associate the two. Equally as important is what all other beliefs perceive santa to be.
Walk up to ANY PERSON in the world and show them a picture of santa. Ask them who it is, and what it represents. EVERYONE will say christmas. NOw what is christmas, the birth of christ?
Try wrapping your brain around that for a minute.
rg
S
Scottster
Guest
TATE said:
IMHO I think their is more of a resemblence to Max here.
(disclaimer!! Scottster is NOT proclaiming that Max Eberle likes to eat taters and whack people in the head with lawnmower blades).
I guess this is the perfect example of why politics and religion should not be discussed on this forum. Instead, lets discuss what brings all of us from different walks of life together.....POOL. I apologize to anyone that I may have offended....that was NOT my intention.
Southpaw
Southpaw