Morra and Shaw on MR break rules and pocket size

[jbart65]

Given all our discussion here, John Morra and Jayson Shaw are pretty adamant in favor of the break format and the tighter pockets.

Both of these players were guest commentators on the Knight Shot Final between Kaci and Filler (who won).

They spoke very much in favor of the break rules. Not so predictable. Led to more safety battles. Made the games more competitive.

Morra in particular was insistent that 4-inch pockets are great for the game. Shaw readily agreed.

Both said something to effect of, "MR is getting the game of pool right."

Me personally, I did not like the sub 4-inch pockets at the UK Open. I am no expert, but it seemed to affect the quality of play.

By contrast, the play at the WPC was excellent.

Whatever the case, I don't hear very many players complaining. Most who I have heard interviewed are, like Morra and Shaw, in favor of the MR changes.

 

[skogstokig]

Given all our discussion here, John Morra and Jayson Shaw are pretty adamant in favor of the break format and the tighter pockets.

Both of these players were guest commentators on the Knight Shot Final between Kaci and Filler (who won).

They spoke very much in favor of the break rules. Not so predictable. Led to more safety battles. Made the games more competitive.

Morra in particular was insistent that 4-inch pockets are great for the game. Shaw readily agreed.

Both said something to effect of, "MR is getting the game of pool right."

Me personally, I did not like the sub 4-inch pockets at the UK Open. I am no expert, but it seemed to affect the quality of play.

By contrast, the play at the WPC was excellent.

Whatever the case, I don't hear very many players complaining. Most who I have heard interviewed are, like Morra and Shaw, in favor of the MR changes.

so did svb and tyler after the spanish open last year, for what it's worth.

i would still like to float the idea of shortening the shot clock to 25 sec. the ultimate pool event in lousiana could serve as inspiration, even though 20 sec / 10 sec is a bit too carneval for big table 9-ball.

 

[jbart65]

Neither player mentioned the shot clock. I hear very few players comment on it or get asked. Love to know if they think all matches should have it.

 

[Island Drive]

Given all our discussion here, John Morra and Jayson Shaw are pretty adamant in favor of the break format and the tighter pockets.

Both of these players were guest commentators on the Knight Shot Final between Kaci and Filler (who won).

They spoke very much in favor of the break rules. Not so predictable. Led to more safety battles. Made the games more competitive.

Morra in particular was insistent that 4-inch pockets are great for the game. Shaw readily agreed.

Both said something to effect of, "MR is getting the game of pool right."

Me personally, I did not like the sub 4-inch pockets at the UK Open. I am no expert, but it seemed to affect the quality of play.

By contrast, the play at the WPC was excellent.

Whatever the case, I don't hear very many players complaining. Most who I have heard interviewed are, like Morra and Shaw, in favor of the MR changes.

thx... it's nice to hear opinions from the players.
Do you have a link so we can hear them saying this?
I was unable to find it.
I'd like to see the top 128 players vote on this.
They are putting food on their tables and know better than those not ''in the hunt''.

 

[trob]

Given all our discussion here, John Morra and Jayson Shaw are pretty adamant in favor of the break format and the tighter pockets.

Both of these players were guest commentators on the Knight Shot Final between Kaci and Filler (who won).

They spoke very much in favor of the break rules. Not so predictable. Led to more safety battles. Made the games more competitive.

Morra in particular was insistent that 4-inch pockets are great for the game. Shaw readily agreed.

Both said something to effect of, "MR is getting the game of pool right."

Me personally, I did not like the sub 4-inch pockets at the UK Open. I am no expert, but it seemed to affect the quality of play.

By contrast, the play at the WPC was excellent.

Whatever the case, I don't hear very many players complaining. Most who I have heard interviewed are, like Morra and Shaw, in favor of the MR changes.

I think 4 inch pockets is as small as it should go.

 

[sjm]

Even if Shaw and Morra have accurately represented the feeling of the players regarding the equipment, what matters is the marketability of the game, which rarely, if ever, coincides with what the players want.

What the fans want and what the players want is almost never the same, but Matchroom needs to be on top of the opinions of both in making a decision that serves the best interest of making the game entertaining so it can be marketed.

My opinion is that 9ball is less entertaining on 4" pockets than it is on 4 1/4" pockets. As we've seen, the current format makes the break almost trivial. Per AtLarge stats, at the recently completed world championships, the break and run rate was just 19% (same as at the World 10-ball) and breaker won the game 56%. Those stats are on the stream table, where the best players get most of the air-time. We've also seen somewhat more conservative play in stretches, with players taking conservative position routes and passing on some tougher shots.

Yes, we've, more or less, turned 9ball into 10ball, but is that what we want?

 

[thoffen]

The problem is there are people that take nearly all the shot clock on routine shots. There really isn't too much pressure on them to speed up on the routine stuff unless you take the clock down to a level where it compromises play when things aren't straightforward. I think the way it is has done as much as can be done.

 

[Island Drive]

I think 4 inch pockets is as small as it should go.

Like Stu said, 4 1/4'' works.
A top pro that's not perfectly straight in should be able to work the cue ball a few feet or so left of dead center. When this becomes waaaaaaaaaay to risky, the game is not the same and board play ensues....(saftey play and kicks that can be lucky determine outcomes, not good).
European thinking should be aware of this, this is Americas game and, we by no means direct the ship when it comes to 6 X 12 conditions.
A few players comments can be self-serving and not serve the Sport, which is what this game is'.
You'll rarely if ever, see obese players winning these events, you have to be in great shape.

 

[Maniac]

Neither player mentioned the shot clock. I hear very few players comment on it or get asked. Love to know if they think all matches should have it.

I completely understand that it is not feasible, but my opinion is that pool will never be a highly watchable sport/game until there is a referee (that racks the balls) and a shot clock (30 second maximum) on EVERY table.

 

[maha]

would rather watch 15 ball rotation with big pockets. then the skill comes out and bad breaks can make the games interesting.

most of all nine ball racks are not interesting to watch. you can make the pockets any size but harder to run out isnt anymore interesting than wide pockets.

the game itself isnt very watchable. except for your routing for a player to win.

 

[alphadog]

would rather watch 15 ball rotation with big pockets. then the skill comes out and bad breaks can make the games interesting.

most of all nine ball racks are not interesting to watch. you can make the pockets any size but harder to run out isnt anymore interesting than wide pockets.

the game itself isnt very watchable. except for your routing for a player to win.

So making the break more difficult and tighter pockets requiring more "skill to come out" doesn't make the game more interesting?

The public has trouble keeping up with 9ball and you suggest 15ball rotation?

 

[alphadog]

Even if Shaw and Morra have accurately represented the feeling of the players regarding the equipment, what matters is the marketability of the game, which rarely, if ever, coincides with what the players want.

What the fans want and what the players want is almost never the same, but Matchroom needs to be on top of the opinions of both in making a decision that serves the best interest of making the game entertaining so it can be marketed.

This is a great observation!

 

[straightline]

Change happens slowly. That said, MR has taken on the responsibility of managing pool play. As such, I think they are correct in turning the screw on the qualifications. Don't forget the hordes of snookarahs who'd be happy to cross over to sub 4" holes.

 

[trob]

Like Stu said, 4 1/4'' works.
A top pro that's not perfectly straight in should be able to work the cue ball a few feet or so left of dead center. When this becomes waaaaaaaaaay to risky, the game is not the same and board play ensues....(saftey play and kicks that can be lucky determine outcomes, not good).
European thinking should be aware of this, this is Americas game and, we by no means direct the ship when it comes to 6 X 12 conditions.
A few players comments can be self-serving and not serve the Sport, which is what this game is'.
You'll rarely if ever, see obese players winning these events, you have to be in great shape.

these guys are still working the cue ball though With 4 inch pockets. I would say in my opinion 4.25 pockets are perfect. I think anything below 4 inches is way too tight. My only problem with that pocket size is like a few others guys take a lot longer for every shot But their lively hood also depends on them making shots lol they aren’t just playing for fun so yeah they are gonna play a little slower.

 

[The_JV]

You know what would fix all of this. If those who have a problem with how MR is directing the pro game, simply stop watching. Vote with your pocket book as they say.

You know what would be an interesting stat line. The average age of poster vs complaints about MR pockets.

 

[jbart65]

thx... it's nice to hear opinions from the players.
Do you have a link so we can hear them saying this?
I was unable to find it.
I'd like to see the top 128 players vote on this.
They are putting food on their tables and know better than those not ''in the hunt''.

I went back to rewatch the section, but MR might have edited it out. The conversation took place during a long pause in the game. The video appears to have been edited to cut out the wait time

Ironic that MR edited the video to speed up the viewing of the final. A clear admission that a shot clock was needed!

I'll put the vid on again during my next practice session to find out if it's still there. If so, I will record and transcribe.

 

[jbart65]

Even if Shaw and Morra have accurately represented the feeling of the players regarding the equipment, what matters is the marketability of the game, which rarely, if ever, coincides with what the players want

What the fans want and what the players want is almost never the same, but Matchroom needs to be on top of the opinions of both in making a decision that serves the best interest of making the game entertaining so it can be marketed.

Agreed.

My opinion is that 9ball is less entertaining on 4" pockets than it is on 4 1/4" pockets.

I lack the expertise to comment on whether 4 inch or 4 1/4 inch pockets are better. I have only played on 4 1/4 pockets occasionally.

I do know I did not like the UK Open, and I think the smaller pockets had something to do with it.

As we've seen, the current format makes the break almost trivial. Per AtLarge stats, at the recently completed world championships, the break and run rate was just 19% (same as at the World 10-ball) and breaker won the game 56%.

I can't tell if you like or dislike the current break format, but I like it.

We've also seen somewhat more conservative play in stretches, with players taking conservative position routes and passing on some tougher shots.

Not a fan of that.

Yes, we've, more or less, turned 9ball into 10ball, but is that what we want?

No, but I didn't think the play at the WPC resembled 10-ball.

IMO, the break before MR's rise to dominance had too much influence.

Kind of made me think of Pete Sampras. He was a better all round player than given credit for, but his break was the best ever. A lot of his matches were boring when his break was on. He was just that good with his serve.

Same with Prime Shane.

I think any break rule that enables lots of break and runs - regularly three or more in a row - is too advantageous to the breaker.

 

[jbart65]

I completely understand that it is not feasible, but my opinion is that pool will never be a highly watchable sport/game until there is a referee (that racks the balls) and a shot clock (30 second maximum) on EVERY table.

I think it is fine if the early matches lack a shot clock for money and logistical reasons. But once you get down to 64 players it should be standard in every match.

 

[Island Drive]

Agreed.

I lack the expertise to comment on whether 4 inch or 4 1/4 inch pockets are better. I have only played on 4 1/4 pockets occasionally.

I do know I did not like the UK Open, and I think the smaller pockets had something to do with it.


I can't tell if you like or dislike the current break format, but I like it.

Not a fan of that.

No, but I didn't think the play at the WPC resembled 10-ball.

IMO, the break before MR's rise to dominance had too much influence.

Kind of made me think of Pete Sampras. He was a better all round player than given credit for, but his break was the best ever. A lot of his matches were boring when his break was on. He was just that good with his serve.

Same with Prime Shane.

I think any break rule that enables lots of break and runs - regularly three or more in a row - is too advantageous to the breaker.

Keep in mind Kaci broke and ran 8 ten ball racks. A game where small to medium packages is welcome, as are comebacks. I remember Roger Griffis/race to 13 against Tom Storm, I think the score was 12-2. Roger tied it up and lost.

 

[Island Drive]

Personally, I think all Pro match races should go to 11.../ with the final two matches longer.
9 is too short for top pros e$pecially when the prize money increases/luck can rise up too often.
When match score totals equal 7 games or 11 games, the match Often does turn around.
Law of large numbers is Always in play.
The ying/yang of momentum and luck does change when 7/11 comes into play.
I've played enough to realize, Seven and Eleven are turning points.
And if nothing happens to the Ying/Yang of life.... then the player who's down 7-0 or 9-2.... will get drilled.
Just the way it is.