Mosconi 526 Stop the Steal

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
mosi didnt make the 526 in a match to 600 what kind of bullshit is that

in 3c they dont count a high score if the match is over and they keep running like ol hugo
Well, actually, Willie Hoppe's record run of 25 at 3-cushion was something like 12-and-out and then 13 more. Of course he was working for the company that was writing the record books. Sort of like the other Willie.
 

mikemosconi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Running out balls on a table is the same no matter where you are or what you are doing. Nothing is stopping anyone else from trying it like Sigel or Ortmann or your neighbor. Unless you actually talked to the players you can't really say they were not trying to get as high of a run as they can. How about the DCC 14.1 challenge?

The fact is that all the people that complain about the new high run are just fans of Mosconi and it's about the same as religion or politics, no amount of debate or examples will sway them to the other side. What we should deal with are facts. On a pool table, how many balls were pocketed without missing on an official size and setup pool table? If number A > B then A is the high run. When it happened, or who did it, what they were wearing, if they had stronger coffee, does not matter. Who does not actively try to break a record? You think all the people in the Olympics just go there to run or swim or fence just to be OK or to set a record? They train to be OK or to be the best they can or the best anyone has seen? How is trying for a record in pool any different? You prepare and work on it many times till you die, give up, or you get it done. Do the world records for say the 1/4 mile say what equipment or training the person had? Are there asterisks saying "this guy in 2018 had lighter shoes and high tech training" in the record books?
Thanks for making my points in maybe a finer manner than I have done. I agree with you on the equipment analogies - sports records are not established based upon equipment used in a given time period - I am not using that argument- others here may be doing it now.

Where I see that you certainly reinforce my feelings on all of this is when you cite the Olympics in your analogy- Olympics are all about competition- winning vs. losing. Athletes compete to win- but they do not compete to set records- ask any golfer - would you rather win a major or set a record for the lowest round - 100% would say win. How much respect would we have for a baseball player who said that he would rather set a home run record than win the World Series?

So let's agree to forget about the equipment thing, let's agree to forget about Mosconi, Let's all agree that 626 is a great personal achievement. But most important of all- maybe we can finally put this to bed and all agree that 526 or 626 achieved really has no place in competitive sports books - simply because it is and never was a record that could be achieved in one continuous competitive 14.1 pocket billiards competitive event.

Running balls on a table is NOT the same doing it in an exhibition or practice as doing it in competition - no sports record is counted or established in practice or exhibition. We do not count the home runs hit in batting practice towards a player's season HR totals. For God's sakes, even the hot dog eating record is evaluated in a competitive environment!

I have an idea as to how to change 14.1 if all we want to do is crown the guy with the highest run as the 'Best Ever"- Just have the World 14.1 be a group of pros playing solo on the tables - Each pro gets a time period of say 3 hours to begin their highest run possible. Then just crown the highest run of the tournament- make 14.1 a solo sport- like golf, only the highest not the lowest score wins - sound like fun? I don't think so! Glad we all agree now.
 
Last edited:

logical

apart of their 'semi public'
Silver Member
Thank you I am glad you understand my “Compelling Analysis.” I am very proud of my law degree and years arguing the truth for the people. My deep love and respect for this game would allow me no less.
I can only comment on what you bring here, and you have to admit it was weak. What you do for your day job doesn't change that.

Sent from my SM-T830 using Tapatalk
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
I think you make a great point here in your bottom line- hate to repeat all this - but why not? Mosconi and other 14.1 greats never even attempted to set high run records- they ALL played the game as a means of family financial support. I have no doubts Mosconi could have run a 1,000 if he was paid to do it. His 526 was just a casual chance attempt- nothing more than that for him!

The whole idea of someone today holing themselves up for weeks/ months at a time for this attempt is just utterly ridiculous. It has as much merit or COMPETITIVE sports influence/ interest as a baseball home run derby contest - basically no meaning at all. To each his own I guess.

It takes way more to actually WIN world championships- Post 1985 I would take Sigel, Ortmann, Hohmann, to name a few as my bets in a 14.1 competitive pressure situation over JS.
One word - MIZERAK! He dominated Straight Pool at a time when it was still a very popular tournament game. He had to compete against Balsis, older but still competitive Crane, Lassiter, Taylor and Moore, Mike Sigel, Cisero Murphy, Diliberto, Tom Jennings, Varner, Hopkins, Rempe, Dallas West, Jimmy Fusco, Jersey Red, Ervolino, Boston Shorty, Richie Florence, Jimmy Marino, Steve Cook, Jack Colavita and a host of other 100 ball runners. He was just as dominant in his era as Mosconi was in his. Maybe even moreso. Sigel was his main competition but could rarely beat him in a heads up match.
 

td873

C is for Cookie
Gold Member
Silver Member
I can only comment on what you bring here, and you have to admit it was weak. What you do for your day job doesn't change that.

Sent from my SM-T830 using Tapatalk
@logical. Good points. "Arguing" the truth and being persuasive are not necessarily connected, it would appear. Also, anyone can have a law degree on the internet. Watch this -> I am also proud of MY personal law degree. You can do it, too.

-td
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Running balls on a table is NOT the same doing it in an exhibition or practice as doing it in competition - no sports record is counted or established in practice or exhibition. We do not count the home runs hit in batting practice towards a player's season HR totals. For God's sakes, even the hot dog eating record is evaluated in a competitive environment!

There is no difference in some sports between exhibition or practice or competition. Say cup stacking speed, you are not going against others, just your max speed. Speed cubing, how many balls you can juggle, running, video games like Donkey Kong etc.. Sure there may be others there doing the same thing as you, but unless they are actively trying to keep you from doing your best, the opponents are not really opponents, just competing at the same time. Running balls in 14.1 is the same no matter where you do it, high run is not the same as tournament wins. Different accomplishments. Home run in baseballs are different, the pitcher is actively trying to keep you from scoring every time he throws the ball. In an exhibition the pitcher is trying to help the player, and the result of the hit is on the guy hitting a lot more. However the home run derby results are still relevant and are recorded.

The issue with a "competition" high run record is that the run has to stop when the game is over due to the rules in pool. However that is not the record that was broken, since many have max tournament runs.

If you want to only count tournament runs as the "record" then there are dozens of players that hold the record. And you need to train to be the best in any sport since you have no idea how good the others will be. Unless you are reaching for a world record each time, you are going to lose. For many it's not realistic, but without trying, you are just going to be losing to someone that is trying.
 

Fay

Member
I HAVE NO REASON TO BELIEVE SCHMIDT'S RUN IS REAL
I DID NOT SEE IT HAPPEN
I DO NOT KNOW ANYONE THAT HAS

I HAVE NO REASON TO CARE IF IT HAPPENED
WILLIE MOSCONI'S RUN IS STILL MORE IMPRESSIVE TO ME
 

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... If you want to only count tournament runs as the "record" then there are dozens of players that hold the record. ...
I think it is pretty widely considered that Darren Appleton holds the tournament record. He ran 200 and out in a semifinal match against Bustamante in the 2013 World Tournament.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fay

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I HAVE NO REASON TO BELIEVE SCHMIDT'S RUN IS REAL
I DID NOT SEE IT HAPPEN
I DO NOT KNOW ANYONE THAT HAS

I HAVE NO REASON TO CARE IF IT HAPPENED
WILLIE MOSCONI'S RUN IS STILL MORE IMPRESSIVE TO ME
Did you see Mosconi's run or know anyone that did???
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think it is pretty widely considered that Darren Appleton holds the tournament record. He ran 200 and out in a semifinal match against Bustamante in the 2013 World Tournament

NO
THE SEEING + KNOWING SOMEONE
THAT HAS SEEN IT
IS ONLY HALF OF IT

THE CARING IS THE OTHER HALF
So if you care that makes it fact? Whatever. IMO the REAL record should be Irving Crane's 309 on a 5x10. Much tougher than any 4x8.
 

Fay

Member
So if you care that makes it fact? Whatever.

YOU JUMP TO ASSUMPTIONS
I NEVER CLAIMED ANYTHING TO BE FACT NOR FICTION
MERELY STATING MY STANCE ON THE TOPIC

NOT SURE WHY YOU FEEL THE NEED TO ATTACK

IS THIS YOUR THREAD?
ARE OTHERS NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE OPINIONS?
ARE YOU JOHN SCHMIDT?

CALM DOWN

 

Fay

Member
I think it is pretty widely considered that Darren Appleton holds the tournament record. He ran 200 and out in a semifinal match against Bustamante in the 2013 World Tournament.

APPLETON'S RUN WAS
VERY IMPRESSIVE

 

mikemosconi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There is no difference in some sports between exhibition or practice or competition. Say cup stacking speed, you are not going against others, just your max speed. Speed cubing, how many balls you can juggle, running, video games like Donkey Kong etc.. Sure there may be others there doing the same thing as you, but unless they are actively trying to keep you from doing your best, the opponents are not really opponents, just competing at the same time. Running balls in 14.1 is the same no matter where you do it, high run is not the same as tournament wins. Different accomplishments. Home run in baseballs are different, the pitcher is actively trying to keep you from scoring every time he throws the ball. In an exhibition the pitcher is trying to help the player, and the result of the hit is on the guy hitting a lot more. However the home run derby results are still relevant and are recorded.

The issue with a "competition" high run record is that the run has to stop when the game is over due to the rules in pool. However that is not the record that was broken, since many have max tournament runs.

If you want to only count tournament runs as the "record" then there are dozens of players that hold the record. And you need to train to be the best in any sport since you have no idea how good the others will be. Unless you are reaching for a world record each time, you are going to lose. For many it's not realistic, but without trying, you are just going to be losing to someone that is trying.
I guess then my real point was that the hi run record to me is meaningless. Somewhere here is a list of living 200 ball runners; including those not living there must be more than 500 people who have run 200 balls or more- maybe way more players than that - maybe a thousand guys in history- maybe even more. Anyone who has the skill to run 200 balls has the skill to run 500 balls or more. I just really think the reason none of those 200 ball runners spent weeks, months trying to run 500 or more without doing anything else in their lives during that time frame is because- WHAT WAS THE POINT- it has nothing to do with proving to be the best who ever competed at 14.1 So one guy decides he is going to try it- as a 100% devoted time in his life. Great for him- it did nothing for the sport and really is a record to nowhere- that is my take on it.
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I guess then my real point was that the hi run record to me is meaningless. Somewhere here is a list of living 200 ball runners; including those not living there must be more than 500 people who have run 200 balls or more- maybe way more players than that - maybe a thousand guys in history- maybe even more. Anyone who has the skill to run 200 balls has the skill to run 500 balls or more. I just really think the reason none of those 200 ball runners spent weeks, months trying to run 500 or more without doing anything else in their lives during that time frame is because- WHAT WAS THE POINT- it has nothing to do with proving to be the best who ever competed at 14.1 So one guy decides he is going to try it- as a 100% devoted time in his life. Great for him- it did nothing for the sport and really is a record to nowhere- that is my take on it.
I think that is a realistic position: there isn't really any tangible reward for surpassing a hi run record.
 

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
One word - MIZERAK! He dominated Straight Pool at a time when it was still a very popular tournament game. He had to compete against Balsis, older but still competitive Crane, Lassiter, Taylor and Moore, Mike Sigel, Cisero Murphy, Diliberto, Tom Jennings, Varner, Hopkins, Rempe, Dallas West, Jimmy Fusco, Jersey Red, Ervolino, Boston Shorty, Richie Florence, Jimmy Marino, Steve Cook, Jack Colavita and a host of other 100 ball runners. He was just as dominant in his era as Mosconi was in his. Maybe even moreso. Sigel was his main competition but could rarely beat him in a heads up match.
Excellent post, Jay. Mizerak’s best years in 14.1 were in the 1970’s. Don’t overlook Ray Martin, who won three World 14.1 chamionships in the 1970’s. Pete Margo and Lou Butera, two stone cold killers of that period, are also notable omissions. Guess I’m agreeing with you about how tough the competition was back then. Steve beat them all in the 1970’s, but Sigel was, at least, his equal at 14.1 in the 1980’s.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Excellent post, Jay. Mizerak’s best years in 14.1 were in the 1970’s. Don’t overlook Ray Martin, who won three World 14.1 chamionships in the 1970’s. Pete Margo and Lou Butera, two stone cold killers of that period, are also notable omissions. Guess I’m agreeing with you about how tough the competition was back then. Steve beat them all in the 1970’s, but Sigel was, at least, his equal at 14.1 in the 1980’s.
Thanks for adding those three players to Mizerak's list of competitors. I knew I was leaving out someone. My point being that the Straight Pool fields of players were deeper and much tougher back then.
 
Top