Mosconi Affidavit

pdcue said:
Well, we must regrettably give you a grade of "F" in historical technique.
One only relies on secondary sources when original material is not
available.

Your acceptance of the ststement you quote is perhaps, a perfect example
of why. In "Willie's Game", Mosconi does absolutely NOT claim to have quit
without missing. In fact, he states clearly that he missed
"a difficult cut shot" and adds "...by that time I was weary".

Dale(did I mention "Willie's Game" - page 167?)
Click to expand...

Well if I told you that I do not accept that quote as fact either...could I move up to a C maybe? Because I don't accept it as fact, its just another statement one must throw in the mix. I included that to show that there is dispute of even what the man that performed the record said.

sent from damn phone, so for once you get a short reply
 
pdcue said:
Why are you more interested in the recollections of some
random spectator than in the recounting of the person who did it?

Dale
Click to expand...

Simple. We know when it happened, we know where it happened. We know who his opponent was. We know the table was an 8 footer and it is generally accepted the pockets were not tight by today's standards. It seems the one thing we do NOT know is how long it took. Reports on this seem to be all over the board. In this thread alone 4.5 hours, 3.5 hours, and "a little over 2" hours has been mentioned. The event was documented well enough to be recognized officially as a world record by the BCA so I find that interesting that this part of the recount seems unclear.

Maybe somewhere there is a receipt for the table time that will clear it up.;)
 
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DogsPlayingPool said:
Simple. We know when it happened, we know where it happened. We know who his opponent was. We know the table was an 8 footer and it is generally accepted the pockets were not tight by today's standards. It seems the one thing we do NOT know is how long it took. Reports on this seem to be all over the board. In this thread alone 4.5 hours, 3.5 hours, and "a little over 2" hours has been mentioned. The event was documented well enough to be recognized officially as a world record by the BCA so I find that interesting that this part of the recount seems unclear.

Maybe somewhere there is a receipt for the table time that will clear it up.;)
Click to expand...

It is not unclear in the least - William said it took 2 hours 10 minuets.
Do you supose he forgot?

Dale(who is beginning to wonder if red and dogs suspect some vast liberal
conspiracy to hide the truth)
 
pdcue said:
It is not unclear in the least - William said it took 2 hours 10 minuets.
Do you supose he forgot?

Dale(who is beginning to wonder if red and dogs suspect some vast liberal
conspiracy to hide the truth)
Click to expand...

Well, William also said at one point that he didn't miss but just quit and apparently that is in dispute with the way others that were there remember it. :D
 
"CaliRed". said:
Well if I told you that I do not accept that quote as fact either...could I move up to a C maybe? Because I don't accept it as fact, its just another statement one must throw in the mix. I included that to show that there is dispute of even what the man that performed the record said.

sent from damn phone, so for once you get a short reply
Click to expand...

Since we seem to be speaking hypothetically, given that response, I would
likely recommend counselling for paranoia and delusions of graunder.

Dale(thinks reality will do just fine, thank you)
 
Somewhere in all the information, I read that the reason a 4x8 was used was because there were no 4.5 x 9 Brunswick tables. That is incorrect. George Rood and a partner {Russ Maddox? sp} bought the poolroom {East High Billiards} and eventually a few of the original 4.5 x 9 Brunswick tables ended up here in Columbus. George told me that Willie always played his exhibitions on 4x8's if they were available. George told me he played Willie many times in these exhibitions when he came through Ohio. He also beat him several of these matches and Willie got so mad he set up a "match" for his title 1 on 1 with George. It was supposed to be a race to 1500 balls. When George agreed he thought it would take a couple of days. Willie set it up for 2 sessions of 150 a day 1 in the afternoon 1 in the evening. The problem was that George trained and judged dogs at the time owned the poolroom and had business obligations and could not focus on the match.
George undoubtably would have done better in the first scenario, whether he could have won is a matter we will never know, although George did tell me that at dinner one night Mosconi said "If you played as much as I do , you would be world champion". Was he being kind ? Or did he really mean it?
 
pdcue said:
Since we seem to be speaking hypothetically, given that response, I would
likely recommend counselling for paranoia and delusions of graunder.

Dale(thinks reality will do just fine, thank you)
Click to expand...

Interesting....paranoia = keeping a open mind and not just believing everything anyone tells me. (my apologies Mr. Clinton... You said you did not have sex with that woman and I didn't believe you, turns out I should have, after all, you of all people should have known)

Not sure where the delusions of "graunder" comes into play here. Whoops... I did it again. Sorry, you said it, it must apply here

Dale(thinks reality will do just fine, thank you)

ahhh... reality - Not sure which world you live in, but in mine, people lie, people make things up, people fudge with the truth to fit their agenda. Presidents lie, Priests lie, nuns lie, judges lie, virgins lie, mom lies, pool players lie....

[pdcue in a pool hall]

pdcue - hey do you want to play some for 10 a rack?

propoolplayer - oh, man... I haven't hit a ball in 2 years.

pdcue - oh really? Ok, I'll spot you the 6,7,8,9 then to make it even

propoolplayer - excuse me?

pdcue - yeah, you are probably really rusty and probably won't be able to run 2 balls in row. This way it's fair

propoolplayer - what the f&^k... look man, I don't know what kind of game you're playing here, but I think I'll pass. (walks out of pool hall mumbling to himself)
 
book collector said:
... although George did tell me that at dinner one night Mosconi said "If you played as much as I do , you would be world champion". Was he being kind ? Or did he really mean it?
Click to expand...
He probably meant it and it was probably the truth. George was spotting a guy 50-no-count to 100 one time and George ran 100-and-out 11 times during the session.
 
Mosconi 526 run time.

Hi fellow Mosconi fans,
Mosconi said in an interview "just a little over 2 hours" but maybe there is some hyperbole there.
I was lucky enough to see him play 3 exhibitions in about 1963. He played fast, wasted no time. He shot leftie very often, so much less use of the bridge. Also his flawless position play seemed to incorporate some economy of time, not as much walking around the table, or pausing to map things out as other champions I have seen. So often the cue ball came back to him or he was already getting down to shoot when the cueball stopped. He did stop briefly a few times to explain the breakouts and the idea of "manufacturing a break ball"... Still I think 3 to 4 minutes per rack (+ some time to rack) once he really got moving is realistic.

To see some of the most amazing playing ever, just google "o'sullivan fastest 147" Like Mosconi, his speed is made possible by flawless position play. About 9 seconds per shot in a 36-ball runout on a 12 foot table in the pressure of a championship tournament. Maybe he won over $200,000 US for that one rack... talk about pressure. I see him as a contemporary talent to compare to Mosconi. You owe it to yourself to see this player if you have not yet. After seeing Ronnie in stroke I think most would agree Mosconi in his prime would not have taken much over 3 hours to do his 526 magic either.

That being said, I think the speed of these greatest players is not nearly as important as their wonderful playing, but it does come off as an additional element of showmanship and audience appeal. It just makes the feat seem even a little more unbelievable.
j.
 
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