Mosconi Cup Team Sendoff

Well, for a weekend warrior. I placed top 20 in 9 ball and banks at Derby!

Due to clinicals I don't compete as much. But, at regional events wins over mcready
, mike Davis, Manny chua, shuff & etc.

Southern classic, beat buddy hall banks. Beat slyver Ochoa banks. Beat Eric Durban 9 ball! Beat Dave grau 9 ball, beat Jason Kirkwood 9 ball.

Those are some of the bigger names. I know pool and played juniors with Charlie and max eberle even up still to this day.

The derby finish is under Wilson to find my results. Dennis Jr. The one year she put me as Mark Wilson by accident and never changed it in 2010.

Kd
Dennis (Michael) Wilson Jr.

Unfortunately, I was there to witness the Kid defeating McCready. :blush: :wink::grin-square::)

Doug, the Kid knows pool inside and out, been in the life since he was a young pup.

Those who don't know Kid, he was a junior champion who traveled the junior pool circuit for many years with the support of his family. The Wilson family is pool royalty in the D.C. area, and Kid made us proud. He's grown up now with a family. Hard to believe. Times goes by fast when I'm getting old. :grin-square:

Kid's pop used to take quite a few photographs back in the day. I remember when "The Color of Money" came out, his father somehow got ahold of some movie posters. He gave me one framed. I still have it today hanging alongside my workstation.

Here's a little collage of a variety of pool peeps, some nationally recognized and some local pool figures. Whoever can name all of them gets the AzBilliards Gold Star of the Day. Kid, you're prohibited from playing. ;)

I'll give you all a hint, just to get started. On the top, from left to right is Geese, JAM, Dennis Wilson, and Kid Dynomite. I'll be really, really surprised if somebody on AzBilliards can win the AzBilliards Gold Star by providing all of these names. :yes:
 

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Kollegedave,

Thank you for this post! A couple questions for you to illustrate my point.

1. Would the three guys agree to participate if they knew a merit based system of selection was not going to be used???

2. Would the 3 members travel abroad if they knew it was unnecessary given schimdt added to the team???

3. Mark has the green light to change the team. Why not make it pay for performance??? Win 4 of 4 get 100% win 2of 4 get 50% win 0 of 4 get 0%

4. No infrastructure and rules have been established or published. We are at exactly the same place with a different dictator???

These are observations that leadership is lacking.

Kd

Kd,

1) I think we are just going to disagree here. However, I think all players and fans knew from the start that the criteria for being picked was mixed, but it included less measurable factors--like how will certain players work as a team. It also included VERY measurable factors. That is to say, every player came to St. Louis and was put through a pool workout by Mark. I am sure that what Mark saw in those workouts helped to influence his decisions. You and I were not there.

2) I do not totally understand question 2, and how it has to do with Schmidt. However, if the question is "Why would the 3 "non-playing members" travel? The answer is easy--to support their teammates and gain experience, so they are more prepared for future cups, and of course to serve as a reserve player if one of the first 5 becomes ill, etc. Basically, they would travel to help their team.

3) This is easy, I believe. I do not speak for Mark, but I believe that Mark does not want the team competing against itself--only against the Europeans.

4) I recognize that what you are saying is that one person is making the decisions, so this process seems dictator-ish. However, the MC Team is not a country. On most teams, the coaches have all types of power to pick who is on the roster, cut players, sit them, etc., and they do not HAVE to explain themselves. It is o.k. to not like this, I guess, but recognize that it is similar to other sports.

In general, I do not understand contempt in your posts for Mark Wilson. What do you think is Mark's motive here? Why would Mark ever agree to do this job? It is not the money! Certainly, not the adoration that he is receiving from the pool community? Don't you think that one of the reasons the criteria for selection is not public is to protect the players who were not selected?

I do not know Mark's criteria on how these players were picked...other than what he has made public. I do know Mark. I have known him for years. If Mark handed me by debit card and told me some other a-hole cleaned out my bank account. I would know for a fact that some other a-hole cleaned out my bank account.

kollegedave
 
Kd,

1) I think we are just going to disagree here. However, I think all players and fans knew from the start that the criteria for being picked was mixed, but it included less measurable factors--like how will certain players work as a team. It also included VERY measurable factors. That is to say, every player came to St. Louis and was put through a pool workout by Mark. I am sure that what Mark saw in those workouts helped to influence his decisions. You and I were not there.

2) I do not totally understand question 2, and how it has to do with Schmidt. However, if the question is "Why would the 3 "non-playing members" travel? The answer is easy--to support their teammates and gain experience, so they are more prepared for future cups, and of course to serve as a reserve player if one of the first 5 becomes ill, etc. Basically, they would travel to help their team.

3) This is easy, I believe. I do not speak for Mark, but I believe that Mark does not want the team competing against itself--only against the Europeans.

4) I recognize that what you are saying is that one person is making the decisions, so this process seems dictator-ish. However, the MC Team is not a country. On most teams, the coaches have all types of power to pick who is on the roster, cut players, sit them, etc., and they do not HAVE to explain themselves. It is o.k. to not like this, I guess, but recognize that it is similar to other sports.

In general, I do not understand contempt in your posts for Mark Wilson. What do you think is Mark's motive here? Why would Mark ever agree to do this job? It is not the money! Certainly, not the adoration that he is receiving from the pool community? Don't you think that one of the reasons the criteria for selection is not public is to protect the players who were not selected?

I do not know Mark's criteria on how these players were picked...other than what he has made public. I do know Mark. I have known him for years. If Mark handed me by debit card and told me some other a-hole cleaned out my bank account. I would know for a fact that some other a-hole cleaned out my bank account.

kollegedave
I have illustrated many issues. As a ethical person, I don't believe in nepotism and charity! I also don't believe in quid pro quo!

The lack of transparency and a system of selection puts a cloud over things unnecessarily.

Representing your country is a big honor and should not be undermined by the presence of some one who did not earn it!

Given, the issues it created mentioned. What harm does having sossei, Shuff, Oscar, Schmidt, Dueul, Hall battle for the three slots? If he truly would be equally happy with any of them as stated!

Give some guidance so expectations are clear. Plus, makes claiming the best 5 an actually true statement in marketing and advertising material. Not unless lying is OK!

Kd
 

I think Mark is doing everything he can think of to make this work for the best. He has taken on a very hard job, with nothing to look back on and see how things were done in the past, as there isn't any. This choosing the team early is a first.

That being said there are always things in hindsight that one can look back on and say I could have done this or that better, as I'm sure Mark will. You're either trying to get better, or you're getting worse. Mark is always trying to get better, that's who he is from my limited contact with him.



GO - U S A
GO - U S A
GO - U S A
I hope so. I mentioned things to help not hurt.
 
i heard that for the 3 days prior to departure, Mark Wilson had the team running on England time zone to help them adjust faster from jetlag.
 
As usual Doug, you provide clear and concise information that even the most ardent critics will have a time arguing with.

Yes, Mark Wilson has done an exemplary job as 2014 USA Mosconi Cup Captain. He deserves all of the credit for doing things his way.

Personally, I like the direction he has take the American team and look forward to a solid, professional effort by all of them as a bona fide team.

You can read the words of the USA Mosconi Cup Team members on social media and you immediately know they are going in the right direction.

I would also like to take a moment and thank you for your efforts in supporting America's USA Mosconi Cup Team despite living on the other side of the pond.

Here's wishing you and yours, only the very best.

JoeyA
 
Unfortunately, I was there to witness the Kid defeating McCready. :blush: :wink::grin-square::)

Doug, the Kid knows pool inside and out, been in the life since he was a young pup.

Those who don't know Kid, he was a junior champion who traveled the junior pool circuit for many years with the support of his family. The Wilson family is pool royalty in the D.C. area, and Kid made us proud. He's grown up now with a family. Hard to believe. Times goes by fast when I'm getting old. :grin-square:

Kid's pop used to take quite a few photographs back in the day. I remember when "The Color of Money" came out, his father somehow got ahold of some movie posters. He gave me one framed. I still have it today hanging alongside my workstation.

Here's a little collage of a variety of pool peeps, some nationally recognized and some local pool figures. Whoever can name all of them gets the AzBilliards Gold Star of the Day. Kid, you're prohibited from playing. ;)

I'll give you all a hint, just to get started. On the top, from left to right is Geese, JAM, Dennis Wilson, and Kid Dynomite. I'll be really, really surprised if somebody on AzBilliards can win the AzBilliards Gold Star by providing all of these names. :yes:

Hi Jam! No way im getting them all. Is that Cookie and Cutty? Then a young Jason Hill. And last one not sure but maybe a very young Danny Green?
 
Well, for a weekend warrior. I placed top 20 in 9 ball and banks at Derby!

Due to clinicals I don't compete as much. But, at regional events wins over mcready, mike Davis, Manny chua, shuff & etc.

Southern classic, beat buddy hall banks. Beat slyver Ochoa banks. Beat Eric Durban 9 ball! Beat Dave grau 9 ball, beat Jason Kirkwood 9 ball.

Those are some of the bigger names. I know pool and played juniors with Charlie and max eberle even up still to this day.

The derby finish is under Wilson to find my results. Dennis Jr. The one year she put me as Mark Wilson by accident and never changed it in 2010.

Kd
Dennis (Michael) Wilson Jr.

Your credentials listed (and JAM's endorsement of you) would entitle you to comments which are worthy of debating.

What you must realise is that he didn't set out to pick the 8 best players in the US,

What he was looking for was 8 players who had the necessary blend of ability, experience and people skills to fit into a team environment.

I, for one, hope thar he continues to see out his contract and widens the early player pool,

I also think that players like Skylar, Mike D, Joey G, Chip etc will get invited to join the MC Squad. A lot of things have been put in place that will make things easier next time. What they have achieved this year will get them into the squad on merit

But thereafter I would still want Mark to hand pick thr final team.

One necessity would be a written agreement outlining what being a Mosconi Cup Squad Member obligates them to do. Mark has stated that he holds no bad feelings to the three Checkout Guys A lot of people were on a learning curve this year so I would think that they might still be back next year (or maybe the year after).

All this will give the team a more professional image and could involve a lot more players. Mark has already enlisted a healthy crop of people who are basically Associate Team Members.
 
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Doug,

Very well put. But, as one of the biggest critics of the selection process. It should be noted the critics were defending the 3 hurt by the team captain's friends. Friends that tarred and feathered team members!

"Tarred and feathered"? Really? I don't know, but I seem to recall that the "tarring and feathering" was really against Mark, because "somebody's boy" wasn't chosen for the team. If you boil it down, that's really what it comes down to.

Based on your post it was financial issues that caused some members to make the decisions they did!!!

Given, his friends did the damage they did to 3 team members. It speaks volumes that he never tried to mitigate the damages.

Really now, an exec-level decision maker like Mark is concerned about the goings-on on a discussion board? Like he's really going to want to get his feet stuck (and quickly get his whole body swallowed up) in the AZB LaBrea Tar Pit? Like he has the Tar Pit to answer to?

I think Doug (pro9dg) nailed it with calling it the AZB Mafia and armchair critics. What we say here, ultimately, has no play in the goings-on in the pool industry. The only time you'll EVER see AZB being mentioned, is when movers and shakers want to *make fun of* the shenanigans that go on here. I.e. the triviality of it all. Mark chose to [rightfully] ignore it, and focus instead on getting his team ready. No need to waste valuable time trying to counter stuff going on here, that won't do a damn bit of good for the team.

I find it odd that you focus on his critics and not his lack of defense for the players hurt by his friends.

Mark has NO ONE to answer to here. Full stop.

This topic of the selection process was irrelevant until the character of the 3 members was called into question.

Who was calling the character of the 3 members in question? If it was anything, it was the *AZB Mafia* that did so. I don't remember seeing anyone from the actual selection process "calling into question the character of the 3 members."

Mark made a business decision. Full stop. That really is the crux of it. It is here at AZB that you saw all these innuendos (like yours) and conjecture (like yours) about "how" Mark made his decisions. The "tarring and feathering" (as you put it) *happened here on AZB* and nowhere else. You can't criticize people for slinging mud when you're standing chest-deep in a mudhole.

To date, no threads exist about the selection process! None! It only became relevant because of Mark's friends!

A good example of the conjecture I'm referring to.

He is the coach and choice of matchroom for years to come. But this post deflected attention away from the causes of the criticism and focuses unnecessarily on the people critical of the coach.

That's right -- and where did that [the bolded part] occur, exactly? Here on AZB, of course. It's very easy to gloss-over that bolded part, when it plays no role whatsoever in the end result. Nor does the second part, either.

What was funny, was when I tried to offer the "ring the bell / set helmet next to the bell" Navy SEAL analogy (of the 3 unselected players deciding to bail the Cup completely), I took a bit of grief of how outlandish this analogy was. Until others came in and offered the back-channel story on the Navy SEAL thing -- i.e. 1.) that Mark was deeply enamored with the dedication, discipline, training, and most of all, teamsmanship of the SEALs, and 2.) the vice-captain, Amir Pishdad, is a retired Navy SEAL. Suddenly, the comparison wasn't so outlandish anymore. Just goes to show that a lot of the "discussion" that happens here are just opinions, and a LOT from people that come from places without the back-channel story.

You know and eluded to a number of issues created by Mark's leadership or lack of leadership. I and others were expecting a learning curve with any job. Just not someone non receptive to constructive criticism and oblivious to the issues they created.

Kd

Concerning the bolded part, what did you expect? That Mark would actually jump into the AZB Tar Pit and engage all the slinging? Like he hasn't enough to do with getting the Mosconi Cup team ready, and needs to concern himself with the goings-on here that ultimately will have NOTHING to do with how the team plays in the competition itself?

Tell us, what would Mark get out of it by jumping in here, and defending himself? What will play out at the Mosconi Cup, will play out. *Nothing* he'd say or do here would make any difference at the Cup itself. Rather, he'd needlessly get more gray hair, or lose more of it, and lose valuable time away from focusing on what REALLY matters.

In general, it's the "poor, poor pool players -- always getting shafted" thing. That's really the crux of it, and with few exceptions, those poor pool players would never make it in a business environment.

I don't know Mark, and've never met the man. But I'm offering my input here as someone extremely experienced with corporate decision-making, and what it means to be on both sides of that decision (to be selected or to be cut, that is). And I've had to make a few of those very tough decisions myself, when I had to build a team. Trust me, it's one of the most difficult things to do. And it also takes a tremendous amount of discipline to stay away from the online forums, to suppress one's own natural human instinct of "needing to defend oneself." Mark did just that.

-Sean
 
Your credentials listed (and JAM's endorsement of you) would entitle you to comments which are worthy of debating.

What you must realise is that he didn't set out to pick the 8 best players in the US,

What he was looking for was 8 players who had the necessary blend of ability, experience and people skills to fit into a team environment.

I, for one, hope thar he continues to see out his contract and widens the early
player pool, I also think that players like Skylar, Mike D etc will get invited to join the MC Squad. A lot of things have been put in place that will make things easier next time. The merit in what they have achieved this year will get them into the squad.

But thereafter I would still want Mark to hand pick thr final team.

One necessity would be a written agreement outlining what being a Mosconi Cup Squad Member obligates them to do. Mark has stated that he holds no bad feelings to the three Checkout Guys A lot of people were on a learning curve this year so I would think that they might still be back next year (or maybe the year after).

All this will give the team a more professional image and involve a lot more players.
This could evolve and eventually fulfil the role of a players organisation.

Bravo agree!

This year is in the books. But, next year tweak these things and be up front that Mark gets to choose regardless of merit!

Many may not jump through hoops knowing it won't change anything.

Mark needs to create structure. I was expecting the try outs would be streamed and a fund raiser! Multiple matches at lindenwood university at multiple times with cup slots as the grand Prize! Big truck sets up and a sense of suspense is created will he come with it or not? It would build up suspense and excitement.

This year coming has derby, us open by bca invite only! Turning stone , SB expo & us open 9 ball in question!

Not much to use for selection so why not have the top guys come to linden wood to play for it. Mark choice who comes. The guys in his top 20 get four round robins of 5! Top money maker svb auto slot for merit. Rest battle royal. Many pool rooms would fight to have it in their room and pay to host it.

These are ideas for the future! I assumed his vision was the same. Not so much focus on team building trips and more focus on infrastructure!

Kd


Just my 2 cents!
 
"Tarred and feathered"? Really? I don't know, but I seem to recall that the "tarring and feathering" was really against Mark, because "somebody's boy" wasn't chosen for the team. If you boil it down, that's really what it comes down to.



Really now, an exec-level decision maker like Mark is concerned about the goings-on on a discussion board? Like he's really going to want to get his feet stuck (and quickly get his whole body swallowed up) in the AZB LaBrea Tar Pit? Like he has the Tar Pit to answer to?

I think Doug (pro9dg) nailed it with calling it the AZB Mafia and armchair critics. What we say here, ultimately, has no play in the goings-on in the pool industry. The only time you'll EVER see AZB being mentioned, is when movers and shakers want to *make fun of* the shenanigans that go on here. I.e. the triviality of it all. Mark chose to [rightfully] ignore it, and focus instead on getting his team ready. No need to waste valuable time trying to counter stuff going on here, that won't do a damn bit of good for the team.



Mark has NO ONE to answer to here. Full stop.



Who was calling the character of the 3 members in question? If it was anything, it was the *AZB Mafia* that did so. I don't remember seeing anyone from the actual selection process "calling into question the character of the 3 members."

Mark made a business decision. Full stop. That really is the crux of it. It is here at AZB that you saw all these innuendos (like yours) and conjecture (like yours) about "how" Mark made his decisions. The "tarring and feathering" (as you put it) *happened here on AZB* and nowhere else. You can't criticize people for slinging mud when you're standing chest-deep in a mudhole.



A good example of the conjecture I'm referring to.



That's right -- and where did that [the bolded part] occur, exactly? Here on AZB, of course. It's very easy to gloss-over that bolded part, when it plays no role whatsoever in the end result. Nor does the second part, either.

What was funny, was when I tried to offer the "ring the bell / set helmet next to the bell" Navy SEAL analogy (of the 3 unselected players deciding to bail the Cup completely), I took a bit of grief of how outlandish this analogy was. Until others came in and offered the back-channel story on the Navy SEAL thing -- i.e. 1.) that Mark was deeply enamored with the dedication, discipline, training, and most of all, teamsmanship of the SEALs, and 2.) the vice-captain, Amir Pishdad, is a retired Navy SEAL. Suddenly, the comparison wasn't so outlandish anymore. Just goes to show that a lot of the "discussion" that happens here are just opinions, and a LOT from people that come from places without the back-channel story.



Concerning the bolded part, what did you expect? That Mark would actually jump into the AZB Tar Pit and engage all the slinging? Like he hasn't enough to do with getting the Mosconi Cup team ready, and needs to concern himself with the goings-on here that ultimately will have NOTHING to do with how the team plays in the competition itself?

Tell us, what would Mark get out of it by jumping in here, and defending himself? What will play out at the Mosconi Cup, will play out. *Nothing* he'd say or do here would make any difference at the Cup itself. Rather, he'd needlessly get more gray hair, or lose more of it, and lose valuable time away from focusing on what REALLY matters.

In general, it's the "poor, poor pool players -- always getting shafted" thing. That's really the crux of it, and with few exceptions, those poor pool players would never make it in a business environment.

I don't know Mark, and've never met the man. But I'm offering my input here as someone extremely experienced with corporate decision-making, and what it means to be on both sides of that decision (to be selected or to be cut, that is). And I've had to make a few of those very tough decisions myself, when I had to build a team. Trust me, it's one of the most difficult things to do. And it also takes a tremendous amount of discipline to stay away from the online forums, to suppress one's own natural human instinct of "needing to defend oneself." Mark did just that.

-Sean

Your post is unmanageable! Way too long and untimely!

Hard or next to impossible to respond to coherently and readers follow along.!

Especially, on my phone!

My comments mirror what was on abr and what players have indicated through Appleton and others bold enough to make enquires.

You may not like the criticism. But, it is merit based and not personal.

Kd
 
"Tarred and feathered"? Really? I don't know, but I seem to recall that the "tarring and feathering" was really against Mark, because "somebody's boy" wasn't chosen for the team. If you boil it down, that's really what it comes down to.



Really now, an exec-level decision maker like Mark is concerned about the goings-on on a discussion board? Like he's really going to want to get his feet stuck (and quickly get his whole body swallowed up) in the AZB LaBrea Tar Pit? Like he has the Tar Pit to answer to?

I think Doug (pro9dg) nailed it with calling it the AZB Mafia and armchair critics. What we say here, ultimately, has no play in the goings-on in the pool industry. The only time you'll EVER see AZB being mentioned, is when movers and shakers want to *make fun of* the shenanigans that go on here. I.e. the triviality of it all. Mark chose to [rightfully] ignore it, and focus instead on getting his team ready. No need to waste valuable time trying to counter stuff going on here, that won't do a damn bit of good for the team.



Mark has NO ONE to answer to here. Full stop.



Who was calling the character of the 3 members in question? If it was anything, it was the *AZB Mafia* that did so. I don't remember seeing anyone from the actual selection process "calling into question the character of the 3 members."

Mark made a business decision. Full stop. That really is the crux of it. It is here at AZB that you saw all these innuendos (like yours) and conjecture (like yours) about "how" Mark made his decisions. The "tarring and feathering" (as you put it) *happened here on AZB* and nowhere else. You can't criticize people for slinging mud when you're standing chest-deep in a mudhole.



A good example of the conjecture I'm referring to.



That's right -- and where did that [the bolded part] occur, exactly? Here on AZB, of course. It's very easy to gloss-over that bolded part, when it plays no role whatsoever in the end result. Nor does the second part, either.

What was funny, was when I tried to offer the "ring the bell / set helmet next to the bell" Navy SEAL analogy (of the 3 unselected players deciding to bail the Cup completely), I took a bit of grief of how outlandish this analogy was. Until others came in and offered the back-channel story on the Navy SEAL thing -- i.e. 1.) that Mark was deeply enamored with the dedication, discipline, training, and most of all, teamsmanship of the SEALs, and 2.) the vice-captain, Amir Pishdad, is a retired Navy SEAL. Suddenly, the comparison wasn't so outlandish anymore. Just goes to show that a lot of the "discussion" that happens here are just opinions, and a LOT from people that come from places without the back-channel story.



Concerning the bolded part, what did you expect? That Mark would actually jump into the AZB Tar Pit and engage all the slinging? Like he hasn't enough to do with getting the Mosconi Cup team ready, and needs to concern himself with the goings-on here that ultimately will have NOTHING to do with how the team plays in the competition itself?

Tell us, what would Mark get out of it by jumping in here, and defending himself? What will play out at the Mosconi Cup, will play out. *Nothing* he'd say or do here would make any difference at the Cup itself. Rather, he'd needlessly get more gray hair, or lose more of it, and lose valuable time away from focusing on what REALLY matters.

In general, it's the "poor, poor pool players -- always getting shafted" thing. That's really the crux of it, and with few exceptions, those poor pool players would never make it in a business environment.

I don't know Mark, and've never met the man. But I'm offering my input here as someone extremely experienced with corporate decision-making, and what it means to be on both sides of that decision (to be selected or to be cut, that is). And I've had to make a few of those very tough decisions myself, when I had to build a team. Trust me, it's one of the most difficult things to do. And it also takes a tremendous amount of discipline to stay away from the online forums, to suppress one's own natural human instinct of "needing to defend oneself." Mark did just that.

-Sean

WHEW! You are on a roll.

I would lose all respect for Mark Wilson if he came on AZB to discuss anything with any of us. AZB is a mud hole and a mine field.

I've enjoyed the wide variety of opinions for many years but if you want to get something done, stay the hell away from this trap.


JoeyA
 
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