Mosconi Cup: This is what I saw....

Paul Schofield

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Besides the spectacular pageantry and the fact that I truly enjoyed the show, this is what I saw:


Big pockets (as compared to our shrinking pockets with deep shelves)

Short races (as compared to race to 11 or 50 or 100)

Alternate-breaks (as compared to winner-breaks)

Slower cloth for easier cue-ball control (like 20 years ago)

Less lively rails for easier banking and cue-ball control (like 20 years ago)

No Ten-Ball (call nothing!)


All of the above are against conventional wisdom here in the states.
 
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HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Besides the spectacular pageantry and the fact that I truly enjoyed the show, this is what I saw:


Big pockets (as compared to our shrinking pockets with deep shelves)

Short races (as compared to race to 11 or 50 or 100)

Alternate-breaks (as compared to winner-breaks)

Slower cloth for easier cue-ball control (like 20 years ago)

Less lively rails for easier banking and cue-ball control (like 20 years ago)

No Ten-Ball (call nothing!)


All of the above is against conventional wisdom here in the states.

Are you saying they are playing "old school" pool over there?

Maybe we should get rid of the gimmicks and make it two-shot push out.

FWIW, I prefer slower cloth and less lively rails. I don't like playing ping pong pool where you have to bunt the ball around the table. I like being able to stroke the balls.
 

Cezar Morales

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Besides the spectacular pageantry and the fact that I truly enjoyed the show, this is what I saw:


Big pockets (as compared to our shrinking pockets with deep shelves)

Short races (as compared to race to 11 or 50 or 100)

Alternate-breaks (as compared to winner-breaks)

Slower cloth for easier cue-ball control (like 20 years ago)

Less lively rails for easier banking and cue-ball control (like 20 years ago)

No Ten-Ball (call nothing!)


All of the above is against conventional wisdom here in the states.


Here we go again !

During the past 10 world wpa 9 n 10 ball titles ,

Races in the finals are to 15 ( not 5 , not exactly very long but long enougj to show the better player )

Pockets are reasonably tight according to wpa requirements

New clothes and standard rails

Winner break for a couple years


When did an american win it lol ??

If u think pockets are america are small, make a trip to taiwan.. ur jaws n nuts gonna drop... u aint seen nothing yet buddy

I find this thread extremely amusing !
 

ibuycues

I Love Box Cues
Silver Member
Besides the spectacular pageantry and the fact that I truly enjoyed the show, this is what I saw:


Big pockets (as compared to our shrinking pockets with deep shelves)

Short races (as compared to race to 11 or 50 or 100)

Alternate-breaks (as compared to winner-breaks)

Slower cloth for easier cue-ball control (like 20 years ago)

Less lively rails for easier banking and cue-ball control (like 20 years ago)

No Ten-Ball (call nothing!)


All of the above is against conventional wisdom here in the states.

Paul,
I concur with every point you made!
Will Prout
 

Solomon

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't understand the argument that the conditions that the OP stated are disadvantageous to Americans.

Yes, it appeared that the pockets were wider than pockets that I've seen in other tournaments, but both teams were playing on the same table so everyone benefited from those pockets when they were shooting.

Yes, the races were short, but this was a televised event which means that advertising spots or commercials need to be shown. You can choose to look at the Mosconi Cup as a race to at least 55 (the total minimum number of games needed win); and in that case we lost this year 58 to 41.

Alternate-breaks is not against conventional wisdom here in the states. It is widely debated as to which is the better format. I personally feel that each format has its pros and cons. However, I believe that alternate-break is the better format for a televised match where you have to make the game more digestible to pool laymen. In theory alternate breaks should lead to close matches (which is better for televised matches), but we failed to win 3 games in more than half of the sets that we lost this year.

I believe the cloth used was Simonis 860. Whether you consider that to be a slower cloth or not, both teams were playing on the same table so I don't see the speed of the cloth as a factor in favoring one side over the other.

I do not know if the rails were less lively, but once again both teams were playing on the same table so I don't see the liveliness of the rails as a factor in favoring one side over the other.

Traditionally you don't call shots in 9 ball. The Mosconi Cup has always been a 9 ball match. I only saw one shot this entire Cup that was lucked in, which I don't believe would have changed the outcome of the Cup had Europe been made to turn the table over after the lucky shot.

The Mosconi Cup is easily one of my favorite events to watch. Every year I fool myself into thinking that "This is going to be the year!" only to be disappointed like most of us. However, I never make excuses as to why we lost other than the other team out played us. I truly think that we can win the Cup with the level of talent that we've been sending if we concentrate on controlling the factors that we can control rather than making excuses as to why the odds were stacked against us in the first place.
 

parvus1202

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Besides the spectacular pageantry and the fact that I truly enjoyed the show, this is what I saw:


Big pockets (as compared to our shrinking pockets with deep shelves)

Short races (as compared to race to 11 or 50 or 100)

Alternate-breaks (as compared to winner-breaks)

Slower cloth for easier cue-ball control (like 20 years ago)

Less lively rails for easier banking and cue-ball control (like 20 years ago)

No Ten-Ball (call nothing!)


All of the above is against conventional wisdom here in the states.

Just a question to anybody who followed Mosconi Cup from the beginning, was the races when USA were winning the Mosconi Cup longer than 5? Are all the rules above were from the beginning of the cup or some were replaced?
 

pmac666

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
SO? everything like 20 years ago? shouldnt that favour the US team? wasnt that the time they whooped europe badly?
the whole event was kinda boring this year when u like a tight competition and i feel for the US players, esp for shane who looked terrible all days! so, usually i would have already forgotten the cup......... buuuuut now there comes something in play what i really enjoy: the whining here on that forum, its brillant entertainment and makes that whooping really exciting! please go on and cry us some rivers, dear whiners, i for myself enjoy it much!
 

Solomon

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just a question to anybody who followed Mosconi Cup from the beginning, was the races when USA were winning the Mosconi Cup longer than 5? Are all the rules above were from the beginning of the cup or some were replaced?
I'll see if I can find information about the earlier years, but here is info about the 2006 Cup (the year that it was a tie). With the exception of the last session, all the team/doubles/triples sets were races to 6 and all of the singles sets were races to 7. The sets in the last session, which were all singles sets, were races to 5.

The reason that it ended in a tie (or rather the reason that ending in a tie was a possibility) was because there was an even number of total sets scheduled. Each team consisted of 6 players instead of 5, but a tie could have been avoided had only 1 team match been played instead of 2(USA won the first team match, Europe won the second team match).
 

Solomon

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It appears that the sets were even shorter in the first Mosconi Cup (1994). Most sets were races to 3. There were some races to 4 or 5, but simply by looking at the outcomes of the sets I can't figure out why some sets were longer. Although the sets were shorter, they needed more total number of games to win a session point because each session point consisted of 2 set points. Therefore, at least 6 games had to be played to win a session point if a player won both sets 3-0. Also, there were 8 players on each team in the first Mosconi Cup.
 

trob

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hearing people make these excuses why we lost this is like the dnc blaming the entirety of there loss to racism. They've kicked our ass for 7 years in a row. They're just better. If your not honest with yourself in defeat you'll never win.
 

JAM

Professional Railbird
Silver Member
Hearing people make these excuses why we lost this is like the dnc blaming the entirety of there loss to racism. They've kicked our ass for 7 years in a row. They're just better. If your not honest with yourself in defeat you'll never win.

I think the issue may be that in most professional sports, the winners are more humble. In this regard, Team Europe was full of glee in their victory, and rightfully so. I did not hear any bad words come out of the mouths of any Team Europe member. The Team Europe fans, though, especially on this forum, continue to kick Team USA when they're down.

I watch other sports on TV like football, tennis, golf, basketball, baseball, and I've never seen a team belittle their opponent, even when the other team loses badly. There is a respect among their peers.

Pool, I guess, is different in this respect. Fans come in all flavors. Some express themselves in a more intelligent manner than others. :smile:
 

Swighey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Besides the spectacular pageantry and the fact that I truly enjoyed the show, this is what I saw:


Big pockets (as compared to our shrinking pockets with deep shelves)

Short races (as compared to race to 11 or 50 or 100)

Alternate-breaks (as compared to winner-breaks)

Slower cloth for easier cue-ball control (like 20 years ago)

Less lively rails for easier banking and cue-ball control (like 20 years ago)

No Ten-Ball (call nothing!)


All of the above is against conventional wisdom here in the states.

Big pockets - it's for TV.

Short Races - it's for TV but lots of short races so effectively one long race.

Alternate Breaks - yep, winner breaks makes zero sense in short races. Anyway, despite pros and cons of both formats, alternate break is better in tournaments and team matches because it gives both opponents equal opportunities (inherent in a fair contest).

Slower cloth - I don't care either way. Fast or slow, adapt to the table.

Less lively rails - seemed fine to me.

No ten-ball - they were playing 9 ball. That said, I would like to see a mix of 8,9 and 10 in the Mosconi Cup.
 

pmac666

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think the issue may be that in most professional sports, the winners are more humble. In this regard, Team Europe was full of glee in their victory, and rightfully so. I did not hear any bad words come out of the mouths of any Team Europe member. The Team Europe fans, though, especially on this forum, continue to kick Team USA when they're down.

I watch other sports on TV like football, tennis, golf, basketball, baseball, and I've never seen a team belittle their opponent, even when the other team loses badly. There is a respect among their peers.

Pool, I guess, is different in this respect. Fans come in all flavors. Some express themselves in a more intelligent manner than others. :smile:

u get this wrong, we dont bash the team USA, they have a hard time now anyways, we bash the whiners like u....... u already have forgotten earl?
 

JAM

Professional Railbird
Silver Member
u get this wrong, we dont bash the team USA, they have a hard time now anyways, we bash the whiners like u....... u already have forgotten earl?

The only place I'm bashed in the pool world is here on this forum by unidentified members like "u."
 

Solomon

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think the issue may be that in most professional sports, the winners are more humble. In this regard, Team Europe was full of glee in their victory, and rightfully so. I did not hear any bad words come out of the mouths of any Team Europe member. The Team Europe fans, though, especially on this forum, continue to kick Team USA when they're down.

I watch other sports on TV like football, tennis, golf, basketball, baseball, and I've never seen a team belittle their opponent, even when the other team loses badly. There is a respect among their peers.

Pool, I guess, is different in this respect. Fans come in all flavors. Some express themselves in a more intelligent manner than others. :smile:
Maybe we're watching different sporting events, but the players and fans of other professional sports teams are constantly trolling their opponents after loses. The Giants came out with Patriots shirts that said 18-1 (the 1 being the Super Bowl loss to the Giants). Reggie Miller making the choking gesture to Spike Lee during the Pacers v. Knicks game. And one of the best fan trolls I've seen was during a Trump rally/protest.

trump.jpg
 

JAM

Professional Railbird
Silver Member
Maybe we're watching different sporting events, but the players and fans of other professional sports teams are constantly trolling their opponents after loses. The Giants came out with Patriots shirts that said 18-1 (the 1 being the Super Bowl loss to the Giants). Reggie Miller making the choking gesture to Spike Lee during the Pacers v. Knicks game. And one of the best fan trolls I've seen was during a Trump rally/protest.

trump.jpg

This has a ring of truth to it, but pool, as I'm sure you and most know, is a fractured sport. You don't see fans and mainstream people competing in the NFL. It is reserved for professionals. At the U.S. Open, fans are competing with the pros.

No matter what one writes on this forum today, it will be ripped apart, it seems, and go into a game of semantics.

I'm actually sorry that I even posted in this thread. I don't want to get into a tit-for-tat. :)
 

pmac666

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The only place I'm bashed in the pool world is here on this forum by unidentified members like "u."

so i need to identify myself before im allowed to post on an open forum? i dont think so......and when "u" wonder why u get bashed here, just read ure own postings the last few days!
 

JAM

Professional Railbird
Silver Member
so i need to identify myself before im allowed to post on an open forum? i dont think so......and when "u" wonder why u get bashed here, just read ure own postings the last few days!

Of course, you do not have to identify yourself on an open forum. That is what makes this forum so special. People can hide behind their computer monitor and spew vulgarity and mean-spirited words to others and troll all day long. It's a great place for that kind of activity.

As far as what I write, I write with my heart and feelings, something I shouldn't do in a place where unidentified trolls and banned members post on a regular basis. I'm a troll magnet.

Have a great day!
 

Solomon

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This has a ring of truth to it, but pool, as I'm sure you and most know, is a fractured sport. You don't see fans and mainstream people competing in the NFL. It is reserved for professionals. At the U.S. Open, fans are competing with the pros.

No matter what one writes on this forum today, it will be ripped apart, it seems, and go into a game of semantics.

I'm actually sorry that I even posted in this thread. I don't want to get into a tit-for-tat. :)
I understand you not wanting to go tit-for-tat, but I enjoy a respectful back and forward or ideas. I don't know you, and I hope that you feel that I'm attacking you. But let's explore the idea that fans are playing professionals in the U.S. Open. This happens in other individual sports as well. I think that some people hear professional and equate a certain skill level to the word. When the literal meaning is simply that someone makes more than half of their income performing activities related to that profession. I would argue that there aren't very many professional pool players in the U.S. because most aren't able to make a living solely off of money that comes from playing pool. At best, I would say that a lot of the players that people consider "professionals" are actually "semi-professionals". However that idea has nothing to do with anyone's skill level. Furthermore, I would argue that because of the lack of professional pool players (or full time pool players) in the U.S. is a big reason why we're getting our butts handed to us in the Mosconi Cup year after year.
 
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