My experience dealing with a well known cue maker

[midnightmark]

This type of story is much too common. I've had an UNPLEASANT experience with another cue make in Willow Creek, CA.
I think the problem is Many cue makers are ARTISTS and NOT BUSINESSMEN per say. Or maybe they simply don't care about smaller repair work.

I can understand the reason for NOT mentioning his name.

How about revealing his INITIALS... or First name and where he lives ?

 

[maha]

the reason is many are not businessmen. just guys working out of their garage or basement making cues whenever they feel like it.

many dont have any money and cant even buy the materials they need with your money you paid in advance as they spent it on their lifestyle.

if they just kept their word and held themselves to a high standard then all would be fine. but lies, and deceptions along with poor workmanship and delays make doing anything with someone not totally reputable and documented as such stupid.

and of course never send anything but a token deposit. along with an email saying the deposit will be refunded at a certain time if cue not finished.
and buyer has the right to withdraw from the sale if he chooses.

 

[DeeDeeCues]

and buyer has the right to withdraw from the sale if he chooses.

Not without paying for the time and materials up to that point, unless there is legitimate cause due to the maker. There isn't a single product that you can commission that will allow that to happen. That 'higher standard' works both ways. If a customer initiates a project, he is bound to the project. If the cuemaker fails to meet deadlines or agreed upon terms, etc. then all bets are off.

 

[maha]

if he doesnt uphold his part of the bargain then it the right thing. just because he has time and materials in it, if he doesn't honor his time frame or other promises you have the right to withdraw and get back your deposit.
that is your loss, and his loss is the time and effort he wasted with the cue maker who lies or makes false promises.

most all jobs or contracts that have a time frame, you suffer some kind of loss if you do not complete on time or have the quality promised.

if you dont see that clearly then you are part of the problem.

 

[DeeDeeCues]

if he doesnt uphold his part of the bargain then it the right thing. just because he has time and materials in it, if he doesn't honor his time frame or other promises you have the right to withdraw and get back your deposit.
that is your loss, and his loss is the time and effort he wasted with the cue maker who lies or makes false promises.

most all jobs or contracts that have a time frame, you suffer some kind of loss if you do not complete on time or have the quality promised.

if you dont see that clearly then you are part of the problem.

I said the exact same. Your post made no conditions when you said that the customer could cancel.

 

[maha]

the reason is many are not businessmen. just guys working out of their garage or basement making cues whenever they feel like it.

many dont have any money and cant even buy the materials they need with your money you paid in advance as they spent it on their lifestyle.

if they just kept their word and held themselves to a high standard then all would be fine. but lies, and deceptions along with poor workmanship and delays make doing anything with someone not totally reputable and documented as such stupid.

and of course never send anything but a token deposit. along with an email saying the deposit will be refunded at a certain time if cue not finished.
and buyer has the right to withdraw from the sale if he chooses.

then we agree and all is fine i am sorry.

but look at my last line there.

 

[DeeDeeCues]

then we agree and all is fine i am sorry.

but look at my last line there.

It could have been clearer, and I intended to clarify.

Thank-you.

 

[iusedtoberich]

It doesn't matter if you name him or not, imo. I think just about every cue maker who ever lived is on "cue maker time". Maybe 5% of them are not.

 

[VTEC John]

If you waited a year and 5 months, even if everything came out perfectly, the cuemaker should not have taken the work on in the first place. He should have told you he was too busy or told you it could take more than a year.

 

[Biloxi Boy]

In the good old days we had a concept -- "my word is my bond". People meant what they said and did it or "died trying". It is amazing how people will forgive slow performance when they can see that every effort was being made but . . .

Eventually, it became necessary to have written contracts, many of which contained schedules of damages for late performance. These did not solve all of the problems, but at least one was not left without any recourse.

So my suggestion, for the benefit of all, is that a simple, standardized, written contract be developed between the builders and the buyers (fair to each side) and same be posted here for everyone's benefit. Initially, the ride might be a little bumpy but eventually, through open and honest evaluation and editing, use of such an instrument will provide all with the enjoyable experience that having a new cue made (and making same) should be.

The biggest problem is that both getting a new cue and making one should be great experiences (not nothing like a root canal) and when they are not it really sucks. I've watched many deals go good and bad. There is nothing like a deal in which all expectations are met.

The libraries and internet are filled with contract templates. Take a deep dive and come up cutting and pasting. Reduce all legal bs to English. It will take several tries to build the basic form, but once done, its done, except for the tweaking necessary to eliminate the bugs. Once such a thing existed, I would not do business without one.

 

[midnightmark]

Agree with Biloxi Boy.
What happened to the days of a HAND SHAKE and YOUR WORD MEANT EVERYTHING ...

I also agree with maha (above) "if they just keep their word and hold themselves to a higher standard, then all would be fine."
Too many people make promises they can't keep.

 

[DeeDeeCues]

In the good old days we had a concept -- "my word is my bond". People meant what they said and did it or "died trying". It is amazing how people will forgive slow performance when they can see that every effort was being made but . . .

Eventually, it became necessary to have written contracts, many of which contained schedules of damages for late performance. These did not solve all of the problems, but at least one was not left without any recourse.

So my suggestion, for the benefit of all, is that a simple, standardized, written contract be developed between the builders and the buyers (fair to each side) and same be posted here for everyone's benefit. Initially, the ride might be a little bumpy but eventually, through open and honest evaluation and editing, use of such an instrument will provide all with the enjoyable experience that having a new cue made (and making same) should be.

The biggest problem is that both getting a new cue and making one should be great experiences (not nothing like a root canal) and when they are not it really sucks. I've watched many deals go good and bad. There is nothing like a deal in which all expectations are met.

The libraries and internet are filled with contract templates. Take a deep dive and come up cutting and pasting. Reduce all legal bs to English. It will take several tries to build the basic form, but once done, its done, except for the tweaking necessary to eliminate the bugs. Once such a thing existed, I would not do business without one.

Plenty of honorable people now, just as there were plenty of dishonorable people in the 'good ol' days.' The funniest thing about saying anything different is that if it is true, it is absolutely the fault of the people who lived in the good old days for not instilling values in the kids they raised (and ruined the world).

What was so great about the good old days, anyhow? As far as I can tell, everything keeps improving in the majority of the world except for a few stumbles.

 

[maha]

it was a different time and place. one where if your word was good you were set for life as people worked with you. and if you didnt you were outcast-ed and ended up on the streets so to speak.
everyone relied upon themselves and didnt need technology to get them through the day.

and yes, years back it went from instilling values and understanding wrong to letting children do what they wanted without supervision or punishment verbally or other. so fear of retribution for doing wrong was lessened. kids are still good but more stray into things they shouldnt.

 

[maha]

everyone that's older talks about the good old days. but all throughout time the good old days are now.

 

[Biloxi Boy]

It's all about what you have lived in and become accustomed to. The immutable truth is that if one lives too long, he will die in an alien land.

 

[Bavafongoul]

I am on the fence about a transaction I had with a well-known cue maker. I know this happens all too often, but I wanted to hear some fellow AZBer's opinions on this. For now, this cue maker will remain unnamed. I sent out a cue to have a repair, refinish, and a new shaft made in the beginning of February 2023. I was told the cue would be back to me in 3 months which is fair because the repair was substantial, and he most likely had other stuff he was working on. So, 4 months go by with no communication, and I finally text him June 1st. He told me he had not started on it and would get to it next week.

So, I didn't bug him because I didn't need the cue until November as I was going to give the cue away. Another 5 months go by again with no communication, and I checked back in with him in October and let him know I needed it done before November 4th which he said it would be done. A few days later I send him the payment and I eventually get my cue however once I opened the package and I realized the finish was cracked so I immediately text him with pictures and he says to send it back so he can refinish it again. Of course, I ask him when I could expect to have the cue back and he says before Christmas.

Christmas passes and I text him in the beginning of January and get no response. A few days later I give him a call and he can't talk but at least tells me that he's started on it, and it should be done next week. Once again, I don't bother him because at this point I no longer need the cue since I had to give the person who was the receive the cue a different gift. Another 4 more months go by with no communication and I reach out to finally hear that he is going to ship the cue out but of course that was delayed by two weeks, but the cue made it June 2024.

Here's the part that pisses me off the most, when I ordered the shaft, it was supposed to be 30 inches and I paid a few dollars extra for a precision tip, but I didn't get either of those things. He sent a 29-inch shaft with a wizard tip. Also, the finish was lifting in a few spots but at this point I was not going to reach out because the last thing I wanted to do was deal with this person. After all was said and done, I waited a year and 5 months for an unacceptable product and one sentence apology text . I could have been harsher about all the delays, but I was trying to be a good customer and not bug this person every other week not that it would have made a difference. What are your thoughts? Sorry for the rant.

You asked a question about acceptability of leaving a bad review. So like Socrates, allow me to reply with a question.

If you were going to order a new cue, a repair, a shaft or anything from anyone purportedly to be a quality cue maker,
would you want to know about any recent customer dissatisfaction issues or specific complaints before you sent in
any money or your pool cue?

Buyers, patrons, customers, clients….whatever you want to think of as……deserve to know, are entitled to know about
this stuff before doing business, not afterward when it is too late. Always try resolving the problem reasonably with the
offender but when you cannot, or you can’t change the outcome, then you need to protect the pool community from it.

You know what that means, what it entails. You might get criticized, even attacked or ridiculed by some other forum members. It is not uncommon for even jerk offs to have friends that stand up for them. Doesn’t change the facts. You
either have to cowboy up and ride that Brahma for 8 seconds or walk away holding your nutsack not saying a peep.

I can’t tell others what to do. I won’t criticize anyone for not doing something if they let a cue maker or any individual
or firm shit all over them. If it isn’t important enough to them to do something, I can’t make them care enough to take
action. But I will always stand in defense and support of there that do take a stand and publish any bad experiences.

By now, some forum members have come to know me as a straight shooter……I call balls and strikes as I see them even when it results in public rebuke and being mocked by others. I see it this way……good intentions do not excuse bad actions and bad outcomes are not always the result of one’s bad actionns. Sometimes the outcome can be awful because your judgement was wrong , not that you did anything reckless or incorrect. However, regardless of the outcome or repercussions, when I see or experience dishonesty and untrustworthiness in others, I shine a spotlight on it and hang it on my front porch for all to see. I happen to believe that being forewarned helps one be forearmed. We need to get better at self-regulation.

 

[trob]

This question doesn’t make sense. If you’re being honest it doesn’t matter whether the review is good or bad. The truth is all that matters. Also name the guy or go away.

 

[Dan White]

I think the reluctance to out the name is due to some implied personal bond with the cue maker. It's like you are ratting out your friend and most people are squeamish about such things. Would you feel bad about giving a negative review of your local Starbucks on yelp? yelp and google reviews are raking in millions in a business that relies on customers telling the truth.

In short, maybe more cue makers should have yelp listings..

 

[sjm]

Anyone in any business, whether they sell ties, cars, umbrellas, washing machines or cues that doesn't give a dollar of value for a dollar spent deserves to be outed. As long as you are honest with your reviews, contrary to the suggestion of others, you do not need to provide documentary or photo evidence of your experience with a vendor of anything.

Think YELP. Reviewers of products and services share their experiences, helping other would-be consumers to find value when they buy goods and services, and vendors know that if they make a habit of failing to meet consumer expectations, online reviews will hurt their business.

Consumers prefer more information to less when they decide with whom to do business, and as long as your review is honest, you are helping other potential buyers.

 

[jasonlaus]

Anyone in any business, whether they sell ties, cars, umbrellas, washing machines or cues that doesn't give a dollar of value for a dollar spent deserves to be outed. As long as you are honest with your reviews, contrary to the suggestion of others, you do not need to provide documentary or photo evidence of your experience with a vendor of anything.

Think YELP. Reviewers of products and services share their experiences, helping other would-be consumers to find value when they buy goods and services, and vendors know that if they make a habit of failing to meet consumer expectations, online reviews will hurt their business.

Consumers prefer more information to less when they decide with whom to do business, and as long as your review is honest, you are helping other potential buyers.

Problem is, nowadays people post negative reviews just because they don't agree with your politics(even if you haven't made them public through your business) and the people haven't even been to the business - cancel culture(leftists)