My fargo rate is not accurate

[Tin Man]

I am a fan of Fargorate.

Am I overrated? Sometimes I certainly feel like it. But it depends on what you mean by overrated. There are certainly players with lower ratings than me that I wouldn't want to match up with! But Fargorate can only reflect actual performance. If I turn in better performances than someone else, my rating will be higher. Not because I'm willing to get down for 2 bitcoin per set on a live stream, but because I performed better in events that I played than they did.

It's no different than if I play a match with someone and they high roll me after I win. No, I don't want to play a set for $1,000 right now. I will, however, report my win to the tournament director.

I enjoy Fargorate because it is a milestone for my performance. When I see my rating creeping up along side of players with big resumes and reputations, it tells me my technical game is getting stronger. That doesn't mean I'm as accomplished as they are, but it is a confidence builder as it indicates I have the game it takes to get great results. And for those of us that don't play full time and can't always compete in national competitions it's nice to get that type of feedback, and still seeing first hand the need to keep elevating my game (even when I'm not outmatched locally).

PS- Jaden, if there's ever a scotch doubles tournament where I have to play with a partner < 600 Fargo I'm calling you!

 

[hang-the-9]

Top players who match up do so based on what they know of their peer's skill not some stupid rating system that will never be 100% accurate. It is just another gimmick but people in the pool industry seem to love that, they are the same wasting money on a carbon fiber shaft thinking it will improve their weak ass game.

It is more accurate than anything else and not only that, it is more accurate since it can feed off any reported results, not just some league match where the player may or may not have been trying to win. You play in the Joss tour where you are playing even race to 9 with a pro, sandbagging won't do you much good. If people played like robots on perfect tables with the same specs every time, it would be just about 100% accurate.

Are you saying if something is not perfectly accurate, that is worse than nothing? This is not engineering a 100 floor building here, but ranking human player ability, even an 80% accurate prediction is very good. I doubt anyone would not take a bet if they were told what they picked would be correct 80% of the time. Or even 60%. Who here would not take a bet 60% in their favor even?

This is not guessing, estimating and favoritism, it's just a whole bunch of data used to predict results and rank based on those match results. If Donnie is a 750 while someone is a 780 it's not because someone hates Donnie, it's because his results in the recorded matches over time added up to his 750 score.

 

[oneballeddie]

I thought Fargo only looks at won / loss anyway - not the scores?

Nope. It is based on games won and lost.

As for Derby it is unrealistic to have 200 players reporting scores at the front desk after every round. You would need a verifiable mobile phone app to report scores.

 

[Tony_in_MD]

Why is it unrealistic?

The SBE does it.

Nope. It is based on games won and lost.

As for Derby it is unrealistic to have 200 players reporting scores at the front desk after every round. You would need a verifiable mobile phone app to report scores.

 

[mikepage]

Why is it unrealistic?

The SBE does it.

Well, sort of.... The SBE has collected match slips with scores on them but has not, so far as I know, recorded those and displayed them publicly or otherwise archived them.

If anybody has influence over the powers that be at SBE, it would be awesome if those scores got recorded.

 

[GideonF]

I care only for 2 reasons. 1. What if one day there is a invitational tournament that goes by Fargo. 2. What if it somehow lowered my chances of being chosen for mosconi cup. Actually 3 reasons. 3. This rating system is supposed to be accurate. So when I offer the last 2 to a player that is 20 points higher than me for whatever you wanna bet the numbers people behind this should put their money where there numbers are lol.

I would be very curious to know who you are offering the last 2 to that is 20 points higher than you. Not doubting you - just very curious.

 

[GideonF]

You would need a verifiable mobile phone app to report scores.

Now if Fargo came out with an app that meshed with tournament brackets and let players submit the scores on their phones, I bet it would make the lives of TDs easier and Fargo would get free data!

 

[easy-e]

Correct. It's pretty accurate as far as I am concerned. I truly think that the players that complain believe their Fargorates are lower than they think they should be, especially if they have played enough racks to be established.

I have been using it to set goals. I am at a particular Fargorate and I have set a goal 50 points higher. I have over 900 racks in the system so I will have to beat some pretty high Fargorates to move 50 points upward. I think it's a worthwhile goal and it gives me a little incentive.

I would be very curious to know who you are offering the last 2 to that is 20 points higher than you. Not doubting you - just very curious.

Siming Chen comes to mind.

 

[Koop]

Siming Chen comes to mind.

Blasphemy!
Rhea will be here in 3...2...1...

 

[donuteric]

Now if Fargo came out with an app that meshed with tournament brackets and let players submit the scores on their phones, I bet it would make the lives of TDs easier and Fargo would get free data!

They certainly don’t want to give everyone the ability to cook data or manipulate the system by putting inaccurate or made up stats into the system. Even good algorithm starts to fail once the integrity of the data is compromised. After all, garbage in, garbage out.

 

[GideonF]

They certainly don’t want to give everyone the ability to cook data or manipulate the system by putting inaccurate or made up stats into the system. Even good algorithm starts to fail once the integrity of the data is compromised. After all, garbage in, garbage out.

I agree with you. In my scenario, it is the TD that would submit the data to Fargo, which I think it was happens now. The point of my suggestion on the APP is to make it easier for the players to report their scores, make it easier for the TD to run the tournament and make it automatic for the TD to send the scores in.

 

[easy-e]

Blasphemy!
Rhea will be here in 3...2...1...

I thought of that as I was typing it!

 

[hang-the-9]

Now if Fargo came out with an app that meshed with tournament brackets and let players submit the scores on their phones, I bet it would make the lives of TDs easier and Fargo would get free data!

There is an app like that for USAPL that does the scoring. Although I have to say that I am not sure if the data goes to Fargo directly from that app or if there is a troll or elf in the back end typing it all in by hand.

 

[JolietJames]

Anyone know what causes what I have termed "rate creep"?
I playing in a tournament a couple weeks ago. To my knowledge the data has not yet been posted to Fargo and my robustness has not changed. However, my rating has gone up one point in each of the weeks since I last played. What causes a rating to change without new scores?
Thanks

 

[Pacecar]

Fargo rates are recalculated daily from scratch.
Evidently, your past opponents (and their opponents) had some recent games which added to their robustness. In a general sense, these new games must have overall improved the skill level of some of these opponents that you played against in the past. Then it follows that your skill level was probably a little under-rated, and the recalculation is now showing that.

 

[JolietJames]

That was my initial guess, but I wasn't aware the system was so all-encompassing. Thanks for clearing it up for me.

 

[hang-the-9]

Fargo rates are recalculated daily from scratch.
Evidently, your past opponents (and their opponents) had some recent games which added to their robustness. In a general sense, these new games must have overall improved the skill level of some of these opponents that you played against in the past. Then it follows that your skill level was probably a little under-rated, and the recalculation is now showing that.

I was thinking the same thing, but there is an issue, what if players you beat are improving with practice, and you are being dragged higher along with them. Say you beat a new player and a few months later they went from a 300 to a 400. All of a sudden you went up with no skill change on your own.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I was thinking the same thing, but there is an issue, what if players you beat are improving with practice, and you are being dragged higher along with them. Say you beat a new player and a few months later they went from a 300 to a 400. All of a sudden you went up with no skill change on your own.

True, but unless that was the only opponent you have games against in the system, the effect is diluted. And if that is the only FargoRate opponent you play, the glitch doesn't matter much.

FargoRate does take "when" into account by giving less weight to old matches so that eventually the games the newly minted hot shot had as a bare beginner will be mostly forgotten by the computer. (Technically, the weight of the data decays with a half-life of three years.)

 

[mikepage]

Fargo rates are recalculated daily from scratch.
Evidently, your past opponents (and their opponents) had some recent games which added to their robustness. In a general sense, these new games must have overall improved the skill level of some of these opponents that you played against in the past. Then it follows that your skill level was probably a little under-rated, and the recalculation is now showing that.

This is a pretty good description. But it is not usually the case that the new games of your former opponents CHANGED their skill levels. It is more commonly that the new games ESTABLISHED/REVEALED their skill levels.

Think of it like this. Suppose Bill is a new player and all we know is Bill went 2 and out last night losing 8-9 to Mike Page (619) and also 8-9 to some guy we don't know named Darren.

Now suppose somebody asked you how you think Bill plays. You'd surely say you don't know much. But 600 is a tentative guess. At this point you are ignoring the games against Darren, who you don't know.

Next somebody tells you Darren is Darren Appleton, and asks if it changes your guess of Bill's speed. You say of course it does. You now guess Bill plays close to 700 speed.

So what happened? Bill didn't play any new games. And it is not that Darren got better. It is just that it was revealed how Darren plays.

Think of new games played by former opponents as revealing to FargoRate how they play. FargoRate gets a better understanding of the games you've already played.