My first tip installation. Went south

S

smoochie

NotLikeThis
I failed miserably at my first ever tip installation but will try again tomorrow. I think I also damaged the ferrule somehow.

The steps I took following DrDave's instruction video which was nice, but I feel my mistake was when I put the cue vertically using a blade to remove the edges (Maybe).

I'm posting this maybe someone can spot something and give me some advice for my next try tomorrow!

Short video -->
 
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The ferrule either is damaged or maybe a glue. I'll double check tomorrow.

Also I feel that elk master maybe is the type of tip where you don't have to cut its edges with a blade like most instructional videos. Cause when I did this the tip looked all fibery as seen in the video even after a burnish attempt it doesn't straighten it out on the sides/edges.
 
smoochie said:
The ferrule either is damaged or maybe a glue. I'll double check tomorrow.

Also I feel that elk master maybe is the type of tip where you don't have to cut its edges with a blade like most instructional videos. Cause when I did this the tip looked all fibery as seen in the video even after a burnish attempt it doesn't straighten it out on the sides/edges.
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Do something before you pull the tip off. Grab it and see if you can pull it and make the tip expand. If there is significant expansion, like half or a whole tips worth it wasn't a good tip to start with. The best ones are gray when you sand the bottom flat. Also tap them with a screwdriver, chopstick whatever, something that makes a tone when you strike with it. If the tip sounds and feels dull it can also be a sub par tip. If it sounds higher pitched and a bit more bouncy, it's a good tip. Those dull sounding ones are really difficult to trim.
 
I did a few my self the other day...yay, us!!

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boogieman said:
Do something before you pull the tip off. Grab it and see if you can pull it and make the tip expand. If there is significant expansion, like half or a whole tips worth it wasn't a good tip to start with. The best ones are gray when you sand the bottom flat. Also tap them with a screwdriver, chopstick whatever, something that makes a tone when you strike with it. If the tip sounds and feels dull it can also be a sub par tip. If it sounds higher pitched and a bit more bouncy, it's a good tip. Those dull sounding ones are really difficult to trim.
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What do you mean by pulling it? with my two hands, I try to pull a tip in such a way that it expands? I don't know how that works.

But good suggestions to check if an elk master is no good would make a lovely youtube video if you are a content creator. I'd love to see these methods done on a video that would be easier to follow. Thanks

Oh and when I sanded the new tip at the bottom glue side, it was white.
 
Just grip the tip with your two fingers, like dig your finger tips into it and pull up, as if you were trying to stretch it out. Maybe just push on it a bit with your thumb. If the tip moves or is spongy feeling it was a bad tip. Sometimes that happens with elkmaster.

If it was white that's probably fine too, I meant to say a consistent color is important. If you see color variations in it the leather isn't consistent. It will stay on but they make better tips if it's consistent.
 
2 things that work without a lathe:
1) Nothing. Glue it on and use. All you micro diameter guys, DTBYC.
2) Super glue. I use Loctite Ultra Gel Control. Black/Blue squeezer. That specific because this glue is not prone to cracking like standard glues or gels.

Glue tip on - CENTERED. Press tip vertically into the floor for 20 seconds or so.

Now coat top and sides with the same glue. Wipe and burnish in with folded paper towel (careful with the fingers) . A few seconds of this will dry the glue.

Have at the shaping. If you get fraying, coat with more glue.

Srs...
 
I really want to try to install a tip.
Any clues for removing a phenolic tip? Can I just cut it off with a razor like leather?
 
straightline said:
2 things that work without a lathe:
1) Nothing. Glue it on and use. All you micro diameter guys, DTBYC.
2) Super glue. I use Loctite Ultra Gel Control. Black/Blue squeezer. That specific because this glue is not prone to cracking like standard glues or gels.

Glue tip on - CENTERED. Press tip vertically into the floor for 20 seconds or so.

Now coat top and sides with the same glue. Wipe and burnish in with folded paper towel (careful with the fingers) . A few seconds of this will dry the glue.

Have at the shaping. If you get fraying, coat with more glue.

Srs...
Click to expand...
Its not crack prone because it’s flexible, but it’s better bonding and shear strength is also reduced because of that. This is a non industrial product, they made it that way because home hobby and diy people often don’t have the equipment to ensure proper and even bond gaping (consistent pressure and truly flat surfaces…inconsistency in either of these is what makes the adhesive “crack” as you mentioned and tips fly off but what’s happening is uneven pressure causing side shear loads….

It’s at Walmart and lowes so I’ll be Frank and tell you it’s mostly marketable junk. It is by no means their most durable or best adhesive of its type.

If you want a gel with high bond, high shear and designed to bond to pain in the ass materials to bond…. Locktite 454.

If you want non gel then get the 401

For what it’s worth they don’t even have it listed or searchable on their locktite site that’s really just a Gallery of their big box store lines of products…..and none of that crap will you find in a commercial or industrial workshop besides thread locker.

if you are fraying the tip then it should either be live tooled cut, your left hand bit is dull as shit or not high enough speed or both or too fast feed or all three.

When you fluff it you’ve pulled it’s density and compactness back out. Once they are fluffed and it expands out some and also lengthens the fibers are now torn and pressing it or playing on it is never going to get it to one day be suddenly back like if should have been…when this occurs thd fix is throw away the tip it…it died on the operating table.

That’s why many many of us cuebuilders/repair
men recommend and practice press tips prior to install so they become more consistent in install and playability right out the gate in the first place
 
greyghost said:
Its not crack prone because it’s flexible, but it’s better bonding and shear strength is also reduced because of that. This is a non industrial product, they made it that way because home hobby and diy people often don’t have the equipment to ensure proper and even bond gaping (consistent pressure and truly flat surfaces…inconsistency in either of these is what makes the adhesive “crack” as you mentioned and tips fly off but what’s happening is uneven pressure causing side shear loads….

It’s at Walmart and lowes so I’ll be Frank and tell you it’s mostly marketable junk. It is by no means their most durable or best adhesive of its type.

If you want a gel with high bond, high shear and designed to bond to pain in the ass materials to bond…. Locktite 454.

If you want non gel then get the 401

For what it’s worth they don’t even have it listed or searchable on their locktite site that’s really just a Gallery of their big box store lines of products…..and none of that crap will you find in a commercial or industrial workshop besides thread locker.

if you are fraying the tip then it should either be live tooled cut, your left hand bit is dull as shit or not high enough speed or both or too fast feed or all three.

When you fluff it you’ve pulled it’s density and compactness back out. Once they are fluffed and it expands out some and also lengthens the fibers are now torn and pressing it or playing on it is never going to get it to one day be suddenly back like if should have been…when this occurs thd fix is throw away the tip it…it died on the operating table.

That’s why many many of us cuebuilders/repair
men recommend and practice press tips prior to install so they become more consistent in install and playability right out the gate in the first place
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info. I will say though, the store Loctite works fine for manual work and coating the tip does take care of the fraying. As for adhesion, that one drop/sparingly etc... has never worked for tips. I apply to both surfaces and trowel the glue evenly with a toothpick. As long as I spend the 20 seconds pressing the tip into the floor, it'll stay on. I usually wait a day before I start torquing the tip (flat file to grind down the diameter) but if the size is correct in the first place, i can go right to shaping no problem.

One more thing while I remember; you guys should market a cheap tip centering jig for us DIY ers.
 
straightline said:
One more thing while I remember; you guys should market a cheap tip centering jig for us DIY ers.
Click to expand...
Use a scrap piece of wood such as a 1 by 6 and drill a hole deep enough to hold the tip (upside down). You can clamp the wood to
a level surface to keep it from shifting as you attach your shaft to the tip.

Another way that can work is to extend your blue tape a little past the ferrule and push your tip on through the taped edge.

I've taken to buying the next size up (14mm) and centering as best I can, then trimming off the excess.
With Elkmasters, I won't use them until I've pressed them into milk duds.
 
smoochie said:
I failed miserably at my first ever tip installation but will try again tomorrow. I think I also damaged the ferrule somehow.

The steps I took following DrDave's instruction video which was nice, but I feel my mistake was when I put the cue vertically using a blade to remove the edges (Maybe).

I'm posting this maybe someone can spot something and give me some advice for my next try tomorrow!

Short video -->
Click to expand...
Some things are better left to the pro's who have the equipment and expertise to perform the task. I've considered getting a shaft lathe and learning how to do this myself but as often as I need a new tip, I'd be wasting materials (glue) and it would take around 3-5 years for the setup to pay for itself and I have no interest in doing tips for others. I wouldn't attempt this without a lathe. IMO, too much can go wrong. For this reason, I decided to continue to use a local cue maker for my tip replacements. Is there not someone close to you that does tips?
 
Pool Hand Luke said:
Use a scrap piece of wood such as a 1 by 6 and drill a hole deep enough to hold the tip (upside down). You can clamp the wood to
a level surface to keep it from shifting as you attach your shaft to the tip.

Another way that can work is to extend your blue tape a little past the ferrule and push your tip on through the taped edge.

I've taken to buying the next size up (14mm) and centering as best I can, then trimming off the excess.
With Elkmasters, I won't use them until I've pressed them into milk duds.
Click to expand...
That would work for me. I suppose different sized holes could be used too. I was thinking though, of something that would clamp to the shaft and be adjustable to support the tip concentrically for glueing.
 
Good on ya, for trying. I replace all of my tips. It takes a little practice, but you'll get the hang of it. I learned by replacing the tips on my house cues. It wasn't that long ago, that everyone had to replace their own tips.

All the old school guys did, and I once watched Jack White pull out a pen knife during one of his demonstrations, to clean up the tip on a house cue, for his helpless opponent. He trimmed the mushroomed tip, and then burnished it on the cloth, on top of one of the rails. It made that old house cue useable, again.
 
rexus31 said:
Some things are better left to the pro's who have the equipment and expertise to perform the task. I've considered getting a shaft lathe and learning how to do this myself but as often as I need a new tip, I'd be wasting materials (glue) and it would take around 3-5 years for the setup to pay for itself and I have no interest in doing tips for others. I wouldn't attempt this without a lathe. IMO, too much can go wrong. For this reason, I decided to continue to use a local cue maker for my tip replacements. Is there not someone close to you that does tips?
Click to expand...
I use a local Billiards store for my tips.
$15 to install plus the cost of the tip.
I get solid tips so $16.50 plus a little tax and next day service,easy peasy.
 
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