My (I hope) 1 rail kicking method
- Thread starter Joe T
- Start date
I too use the method described by JoeT. I find that when the angle in/ angle out is wide and equal (say 60 degrees or more), that one check is to determine (by eye) that the complementary triangles are the same. I don’t know why this helps. Seems I can visualize two triangles laying on the rail and the cb as traveling down the hypotenuses of each triangle.
On kicks where the object ball is less than half the width of the table from the rail I often favor the outside of the cb as it returns from the rail. This too seems to help kick a ball into the pocket. Probably has something to do with the actual place the CB strikes the rail and the eye's inability to accurately estimate the strike point.
On kicks where the object ball is less than half the width of the table from the rail I often favor the outside of the cb as it returns from the rail. This too seems to help kick a ball into the pocket. Probably has something to do with the actual place the CB strikes the rail and the eye's inability to accurately estimate the strike point.
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That really depends (on the angle, how sticky the cloth is and what kind of vertical rotation is on the ball).
1. Rail friction.
When a ball hits the rail it doesn't rebound instantly; it continues its forward motion for a moment, sinking into the rail and moving along it at the same time. Rail friction shortens the distance the ball moves along the rail, making its rebound angle steeper. Adding a little running english can correct the rebound angle, but it often isn't necessary and is easily overdone. One reason running english may not be necessary is if the "equal" angle is pretty steep or pretty wide - then rail friction has less effect. Another reason it may not be necessary is if the ball has forward rotation (follow).
2. Forward rotation (follow) on the ball.
Forward rotation (follow) on the ball causes it to masse forward after rebounding, widening the rebound angle*. This effect is often equal to or greater than the shortening effect of rail friction - balls usually rebound long when the "equal" angle is wider, even without running english.
*Note: draw on the ball causes the opposite effect - the ball will masse backward after rebounding, shortening the rebound angle.
pj
chgo
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Is this so? I always thought putting some draw on the CB would kick the CB wider.
Either that or I'm misinterpreting your words..?
Joe T
Well-known member
Joe,
Another top player uses your system as well as myself. When I looked at the diagrams I wondered if you had someone walking around in my pool room watching me practice kicking.:wink:
DeadPoked: There you have it. Are you satisfied?
It works for me.
JoeyA
I have spies everywhere.
I'm talking about follow or draw on the ball that hits the rail (whether that's the CB or the OB), and since we're talking about kicks that means the CB. If you're banking an OB, some players think putting draw on the CB transfers follow to the OB, which then banks a little wide - I doubt it really happens, but that may be what you're thinking of.
If you really think draw makes the CB go wider (longer) on a kick, all you have to do is try it to see you're mistaken.
pj
chgo
Pretty much the same way that I kick one railers unless I just "feel the spot" to hit.
Generally though I try to take the guess work out my finding a constant first. In other words I konw that if I hit one diamond length down then I will arrive in the same plane as my cueball two diamonds down etc.
I take a constant that is close to a line on the OB and then adjust.
I also find it easier finding a constant and visualizing the spin needed if shorten or lengthen a kick if other balls are in the way.
Years ago I was in a Grady Mathews class and he taught a few kicking methods. I believe this was one of them but I cant be sure. I know he kicked extremely good no matter how many rails. Could have been that night but his teaching methods were very good as well.
Generally though I try to take the guess work out my finding a constant first. In other words I konw that if I hit one diamond length down then I will arrive in the same plane as my cueball two diamonds down etc.
I take a constant that is close to a line on the OB and then adjust.
I also find it easier finding a constant and visualizing the spin needed if shorten or lengthen a kick if other balls are in the way.
Years ago I was in a Grady Mathews class and he taught a few kicking methods. I believe this was one of them but I cant be sure. I know he kicked extremely good no matter how many rails. Could have been that night but his teaching methods were very good as well.
hmmm interesing. No i was referring to kicks. but I'm probably misinformed.
It's just I think I heard somewhere I think from a match being commented by either Danny D. or Buddy ..I think it was a Corey Deuel match, where he says "I don't know if he knows but if he put bottom on that rail kick he gets a wider angle" or something along those lines. And Deuel did the shot as the commentator said. If only I can find that match on youtube again..
But I googled the effect of draw on kicks and I got the following video which in turn confirms what you said regarding the efects of follow/draw:
http://billiards.colostate.edu/normal_videos/new/NVB-29.htm
oh and..
lol cmon I'm a rookie here trying to learn the intricacies of the game..you don't have to sound so condescending
hmmm interesing. No i was referring to kicks. but I'm probably misinformed.
It's just I think I heard somewhere I think from a match being commented by either Danny D. or Buddy ..I think it was a Corey Deuel match, where he says "I don't know if he knows but if he put bottom on that rail kick he gets a wider angle" or something along those lines. And Deuel did the shot as the commentator said. If only I can find that match on youtube again..
But I googled the effect of draw on kicks and I got the following video which in turn confirms what you said regarding the efects of follow/draw:
http://billiards.colostate.edu/normal_videos/new/NVB-29.htm
oh and..
lol cmon I'm a rookie here trying to learn the intricacies of the game..you don't have to sound so condescending
T.J.
You won't be a rookie long if you keep doing research like that.
Good attitude in your response, BTW.
Sometimes the Internet text based form of communication can be deceiving and sometimes it's right on the money.
When Patrick writes, I read, even if he appears to be condescending. :slap::grin:
JoeyA
I spent 10 minutes composing an answer to you about something it would take you 10 seconds to find out on your own if you had an ounce of initiative, and you criticize me for it? You're lucky anybody answered you at all. And, by the way, I wasn't being condescending - grow a little skin if you're going to converse on the internet.
pj
chgo
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Tough love
Learniing is costly and painful-hang in there.
3railkick/(40 years-still paying and hurting):wink::wink:
PS: directed to Teedotaj
Learniing is costly and painful-hang in there.
3railkick/(40 years-still paying and hurting):wink::wink:
PS: directed to Teedotaj
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Well, my curiosity was aroused right after reading your initial post. So I just fired away and asked for the sake of a healthy discussion.
Besides, apparently I did have a tiny morsel of initiative in me since I googled it afterwards =) and good thing I did.
You should be happy you spent ten minutes of your life helping someone =) Rest assured I appreciate it =) And I'm pretty sure someone else who's got it mixxed up like me would read this later on and would probably thank that you did too =)
btw me taking trying to show a light attitude despite getting a condescending vibe from your internet texts (although now you say you weren't trying to be condescending so we shall forego that), shows some skin methinks. (you know the part where I go "CMON, LOL, and then
" at the end.)But as JoeyA suggests, and when he talks I listen, that I should listen to you when you write. And that I will!
... me taking trying to show a light attitude despite getting a condescending vibe from your internet texts (although now you say you weren't trying to be condescending so we shall forego that), shows some skin methinks. (you know the part where I go "CMON, LOL, and then
Maybe I was a little condescending; I've geen thinking and writing about pool details for a long time and tend to forget that there was a time when I didn't know the things that I now think are "obvious". Sorry if I misread you too.
pj
chgo
