My New J. Flowers Case

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
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I am. I moved the thread to take the picture. In any event the FACT is that 4 people have owned this case so far and NONE of them have said a word about the stitching on the pocket being loose. In fact EACH ONE of them had high praise for the case.

Your funny.......moved the thread to take pic....LOL

The fact alone that the case has been sold 4 times should tell you something. High praise is always used when your trying to sell something.

You're really reaching now aren't you? The high praise was what the customers gave to me IN PRIVATE when they received the case. The case has been used in trade deals and like I said, since you ignored it the first time, the man who NOW OWNS the case is EXTREMELY METICULOUS and knows with 100% certainty that if he had ANY PROBLEM with the case whatsoever that I would take care of him without question.

But, let's not forget your astute observation.

"High praise is always used when your trying to sell something." - Jack Justis

So everyone would do well to remember that you said this when someone is trying to sell them a Justis case.

[But let's get this back on topic here Jack, for $3600 which is what your customer claims he paid for his Ron Ross tooled Justis don't you think that the interior and exterior should fit together?

The first thing to wear out in any case is the interior. We purposely do not glue in our interiors with an extremely tight fit. The complete interior can easily be replaced in 5 minutes even by the customer.

Oh, so now we are back on the "it's a feature" excuse?

Well then without discussing the fact that the interior is inadequate let's just break down your statement.

So you are telling us that you sell interiors that wear out? Ok.

How many interiors have you sent out to customers in the years you have been using this quick change method?

What exactly wears out on your interior? Why does it wear out? Is it excessive movement of the cues that is doing the wearing out of your interior?

Don't you think that for the money you charge the customer would be better served if they didn't have to do these quick change repairs themselves?

How long would it take to replace your interor and is is a job that the customer could do or would it have to be returned to China?

It would take about ten minutes when done by someone who knows what to do. The customer can do it. If they can't or don't want to then I have several of my case making colleagues around the country who help me out to service the customer.

But my interiors don't need to be replaced Jack. They are built the right way from the beginning. They don't wear out because the cues fit snugly as they should.

Yours don't wear out either. You probably don't know it since you don't make the interiors but the fabric used in your cases is pretty durable. It's the wrong texture to use in a cue case but it's still durable. No one is going to wear one out despite the fact that the cues kept in them move all the time.

Take a swatch of that fabric that the factory uses in your interiors and dare a cue maker to polish his cues vigorously with it. See what happens.

Want to bet though that I can make an interior JUST LIKE yours that fits WAY WAY better to the exterior AND the customer can remove it in five minutes without any tools and replace it with a new one?

We purposely do not glue in our interiors with an extremely tight fit.

You don't glue them in at all. And you don't have anything resembling a tight fit. Your interiors practically fall out of the case. In fact you don't even bother to put anything in the bottom of the case like say, foam rubber to protect the cue.

What did you say to your customers?

"It has recently come to my attention that some of you may not be aware of our recommendation on how to place your cues and shafts in our cases.
Each case comes with a care sheet that explains this but I though it might be a good idea to review this on this forum since many of my valued customers are AZ members. The following is verbatim from our care sheet.

TO PREVENT PIN AND COLLAR DAMAGE, PLACE THE RUBBER BUMPER PORTION OF YOUR CUE AND THE TIP SECTION OF THE SHAFT DOWN TOWARD THE BOTTOM OF THE CASE.

If the pin and collar are installed down and the case is accidentally dropped, it could result in a bent pin or chipped collar from the force. I think this is a carry over from owners of cases with tapered tubes where you didn't have the choice but to install pin down. " - Jack Justis

Is that a feature too?
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
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Silver Member
I corrected the pricing on my cases in your above post. Sure they are a little higher because we use nothing but grade A leather, solid brass or nickle hardware and I personally build and inspect each case one at a time. Oh, and don't forget they hold their value even after years of hard service.

Well, we will have a little chart up soon and you can correct it then. I just used my spreadsheet and compared options as best I could considering that we offer so much more than you do it's hard to compare apples to apples.

So you build your interiors or do you buy them ready made from China?

I wouldn't be so sure about the holding of value part after I get done with you Jack. I think that the "Justis Hype" bubble is about to burst.

You can find the spreadsheet I used here. J.Flowers Tribute - Justis Price Comparison Calculator Feel free to make corrections and upload your own so that consumers can have the accurate information.

Don't you find it silly to use all that great leather and hardware and not to give your customers a well fitted interior that protects their cues? Why skimp on the interior? Isn't that the most important part?

Why should the customer's cue be in danger of being damaged if they didn't read your memo on how to insert their cues into your case? Gee, sorry you are too stupid to put the cues in like I told you to do it, but isn't my brass hardware holding up well?

Is that your sentiment?
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
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Speaking of wearing out?

Isn't this pretty when it's new?



But it doesn't hold up so well to years of hard use. Can the customer fix this in five minutes?



That pocket looks a little rough too there Jack. What thickness of leather are you using?

This picture shows another of your cases with the super quick change interior. Why don't you tout this WONDERFUL feature on your website?

The thing that strike me here is the APPARENTLY uneven line of rivets and badly cut piece of leather on this high value Justis case.

As you say the pictures don't lie right? Click on the picture to REALLY see what I mean when you look at the picture in original size.

 
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Guerra Cues

I build one cue at a time
Gold Member
Silver Member
I think that a sane debate is a good debate, specially when good points are brought to daylight...
 

NewStroke

Screamin Monkey
Silver Member
The whole point of this thread..."I GOT A GREAT CASE" :thumbup2: and based on my experience I will recommend John to everyone who asks me. In fact, I think I will pressure jcurry order a case from him.
 

ftgokie

D player extraordinaire
Silver Member
The whole point of this thread..."I GOT A GREAT CASE" :thumbup2: and based on my experience I will recommend John to everyone who asks me. In fact, I think I will pressure jcurry order a case from him.

Yes, you have a nice case there brother......Johns cases offer your cues more protection. I just got a nice Justis tube style and I really like it also. I just think for protection you cant go wrong with that style...thats just me though.
 

Ky Boy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think that a sane debate is a good debate, specially when good points are brought to daylight...



I agree wholeheartedly...nothing like constructive conflict to bring about new ideas while exposing flaws in existing ones.

So who do you think is winning is this debate so far??? I have my opinion just want to know what you all think....


edit to add: almost in the market for a new custom case so I am watching this closely...


Gary
 

Misha

New member
I wasn't going to post to this thread, but I have dealt with both gentlemen and have no dog in this fight.

My JJ case has a different interior than the ones shown. I had to alter it slightly, because of the specs of my cues, and so, had to pull out the interior. At THAT time, they were individual tubes of Schedule 40 PVC sized correctly for a snug fit, depending on how tight you stretched the cloth liner. Very easy to adapt to my longer cues.

I didn't know he changed designs. Any way, it's a very fine case, and everyone that saw it wanted to steal it:eek: (which is the reason I don't use it anymore).

My next case will be a JB. After I get it, I'll do a very honest review of both. Those that know me know I do not mince words or pucker to anyone. It is what it is..........and I try and and say it as gently as possible, but will not compromise my integrity for anyone, or anything.

I agree that arguing among competitors is no way to do business. I also know that sometimes you need to defend yourself against unwarranted attacks. I take no sides here, only to point out that, in order to win a fight, you also lose much more in the process.

YMMV.
 
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ftgokie

D player extraordinaire
Silver Member
i agree wholeheartedly...nothing like constructive conflict to bring about new ideas while exposing flaws in existing ones.

So who do you think is winning is this debate so far??? I have my opinion just want to know what you all think....


Edit to add: Almost in the market for a new custom case so i am watching this closely...


Gary

jb................
 

ftgokie

D player extraordinaire
Silver Member
I wasn't going to post to this thread, but I have dealt with both gentlemen and have no dog in this fight.

My JJ case has a different interior than the ones shown. I had to alter it slightly, because of the specs of my cues, and so, had to pull out the interior. At THAT time, they were individual tubes of Schedule 40 PVC sized correctly for a snug fit, depending on how tight you stretched the cloth liner. Very easy to adapt to my longer cues.

I didn't know he changed designs. Any way, it's a very fine case, and everyone that saw it wanted to steal it:eek: (which is the reason I don't use it anymore).

My next case will be a JB. After I get it, I'll do a very honest review of both. Those that know me know I do not mince words or pucker to anyone. It is what it is..........and I try and and say it as gently as possible, but will not compromise my integrity for anyone, or anything.

I agree that arguing among competitors is no way to do business. I also know that sometimes you need to defend yourself against unwarranted attacks. I take no sides here, only to point out that, in order to win a fight, you also lose much more in the process.

YMMV.


And I totally agree with you here!
 

Guerra Cues

I build one cue at a time
Gold Member
Silver Member
I agree wholeheartedly...nothing like constructive conflict to bring about new ideas while exposing flaws in existing ones.

So who do you think is winning is this debate so far??? I have my opinion just want to know what you all think....


edit to add: almost in the market for a new custom case so I am watching this closely...


Gary

This is not a matter of winning or loosing.
Would I like to have a Justis Case? Absolutely, but I would have to change the interior to John's or the case needed to have a better protection for my cues.
Can I afford a JJ case? Not at this time.
Everybody knows that Jack makes an awesome looking case, good value, very desirable, etc... Unfortunately on a case that costs several hundreds of dollars or even thousands Jack does not want to spend a few more bucks to improve the interior design. It is hard to be humble sometimes and to admit flaws on the design.
John's cases might not have the cleanest design but they offer the best protection, period. If I order a case from John and spend the same amount of money that a Justis costs I am sure the case will be wicked looking!!!
I had a couple of design ideas in my mind and shared that with John and he is the first one to admit that my idea was good and can even improve the overall case design... He is humble and knows how to listen - that is the only way you can improve your product... This feeling happens in any industry...
Apple Iphone is a good example of customer listening skills and ideas into actions - I could probably give you thousands of examples like this...
I am not knocking off Jack by all means, he builds an outstanding looking case, but you can never admit that your product is perfect...
I can post a SW, Showman, Searing cue on this forum and I will bet you anything that you will have a thousand ideas on the look and feel, shaft taper, tip, ferrules, etc, etc, etc, etc.
 
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AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... My next case will be a JB. After I get it, I'll do a very honest review of both. ...

Since Jack no longer makes tube-style cases, I'm not sure your comparison would be very helpful for people thinking about a new case from one or the other of these makers.
 

Misha

New member
Since Jack no longer makes tube-style cases, I'm not sure your comparison would be very helpful for people thinking about a new case from one or the other of these makers.

I respectfully disagree, sir. I also have access to his newer style (I just found out there is one in my area, BTW), and so this will not compromise my review. Fit and finish is NOT subjective (to me, comparing apples to apples), and the interiors? Well, I'll give you the facts, make some comparisons, and some tests, and then you can then decide if it's helpful or not.

Fair enough?
 

Misha

New member
JJ vs. JB cases.

Well, I stuck my foot in mouth really good here, didn't I?:sorry:

Anyway, since I usually do what I say I will do (nobody is perfect), then I'm starting a thread on this topic in "cue reviews" sub forum.

<I don't care to clutter up the main with this one> Mods can move it to where they think best, naturally.>
 

bobroberts

Pool player
Silver Member
After reading this pissing contest I think I will buy my next case from neither of these guys.
They are both immature and i don't care about their reps or their ages.
BTW good luck with your case.
 

vin

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
whats making me wonder is that there are so many people copying the same design but never got bashed. major threat huh? or just didnt let yer weener in?
 

shinobi

kanadajindayo
Silver Member
After reading this pissing contest I think I will buy my next case from neither of these guys.
They are both immature and i don't care about their reps or their ages.
BTW good luck with your case.

I always respect a healthy and sane debate. It's natural for some emotion to come into the mix but it hasn't gone overboard. In the end there are some facts in there, some irrelevant details, and we are in an interesting position to be able to see two top tier case makers discuss this stuff in great details on the forums. All the information you need to make a decision is certainly there.

Even if you don't buy a case from "neither of these guys" maybe you'll be looking more closely at the kind of interior/protection your other options provide ;)
 
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dainese919

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i had bought a justis prolite, used it for a while, love the looks, love the lite weight. didn't care about the losse fit.

currently using a JB flower tribute case, it's the most sturdy case I owned yet. it looks great, thick leather feels great. it's a bit heavy.

I agree with most of John's points so far and his case does offer great protection and you can definitely feel it. The cost of his case is also unreal considerd the average custom case price these days.

I'd strongly recommend anyone looking a custom case give John a call/email.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
I agree that arguing among competitors is no way to do business. I also know that sometimes you need to defend yourself against unwarranted attacks. I take no sides here, only to point out that, in order to win a fight, you also lose much more in the process.

YMMV.

This is the whole key here.

I think that if one IS in a competition then one should be playing to win. In most purchasing situations for relatively expensive items people purchase only one of them every couple of years at best.

So when looking at spending an average of $500 on a cue case one should be armed with as much knowledge about the product as possible.

In the past, the ONLY thing I have ever mentioned that we do better than Jack on a consistent basis is protect cues. Which, we still do.

I personally however have had enough.

Jack says that the J.Flowers Tribute line is a copy of his case. Ok, for the purpose of the discussion only, let's say that it is.

Then on that basis we will compare apples to apples on that line only because Jack is unwilling and possibly incapable of doing any other type of case.

Like these for example;









We will stick to this style for comparison purposes;



 
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