My New J. Flowers Case

[JB Cases]

After reading this pissing contest I think I will buy my next case from neither of these guys.
They are both immature and i don't care about their reps or their ages.
BTW good luck with your case.

That's fine. Here is a list of other case makers you can choose from who all make excellent products;

www.jbcases.com

Is there any other case maker who lists his colleagues on their website?

I will tell you the same thing that I have told thousands of Instroke customers during the many years I owned Instroke and stood at the booths selling cases;

"My job here is to educate you as to what I feel makes a good cue case. I point out all the things that I do on the case to protect cues and provide a long lasting and durable product that's easy to use. Whether you buy our case or not you at least know which questions to ask. I hope and am fairly confident that you will be back, but if not then I know you made your choice based on knowledge and and not sales hype."

So Bob I tell you the same thing. Go to our website, read this essay on why protection matters, www.jbcases.com/protection.html

And demand from your case maker that they give you a level of protection that you deserve for your cue investment.

 

[Ky Boy]

This is not a matter of winning or loosing.
Would I like to have a Justis Case? Absolutely, but I would have to change the interior to John's or the case needed to have a better protection for my cues.
Can I afford a JJ case? Not at this time.
Everybody knows that Jack makes an awesome looking case, good value, very desirable, etc... Unfortunately on a case that costs several hundreds of dollars or even thousands Jack does not want to spend a few more bucks to improve the interior design. It is hard to be humble sometimes and to admit flaws on the design.
John's cases might not have the cleanest design but they offer the best protection, period. If I order a case from John and spend the same amount of money that a Justis costs I am sure the case will be wicked looking!!!
I had a couple of design ideas in my mind and shared that with John and he is the first one to admit that my idea was good and can even improve the overall case design... He is humble and knows how to listen - that is the only way you can improve your product... This feeling happens in any industry...
Apple Iphone is a good example of customer listening skills and ideas into actions - I could probably give you thousands of examples like this...
I am not knocking off Jack by all means, he builds an outstanding looking case, but you can never admit that your product is perfect...
I can post a SW, Showman, Searing cue on this forum and I will bet you anything that you will have a thousand ideas on the look and feel, shaft taper, tip, ferrules, etc, etc, etc, etc.

Listen...If you do not think for a second that these 2 guys are trying to overcome the other in such a manner as to 'WIN' then you are wrong. If JJ eventually admits to a flaw (whether there is one or not), don't you think JB will feel as though he is the victor in this situation???

Every debate is about convincing one or another they are right...I do believe that Jack is overly arrogant about his cases and he is extremely set in his method and not open to outside constructive criticism. John Barton has his methods as well but I do believe he is more customer oriented than Jack. I mean no disrespect to either of these gentleman and on the contrary RESPECT both of them. They have found a way to make money in a sub-cultural market that seems to be diminishing everyday. I applaud them both.

However, saying there will be no clear cut winner or loser after this is done is, well, naive at best. John Barton will make his case and win this argument by his willingness to admit he is still PRACTICING his trade to eventually have a perfect product. While Jack believes he has a perfect product already...later. JMO


Gary

 

[JB Cases]

In one of the endless arguments that Jack Justis is having with John he (Justis) pointed out some "errors" in one of John's case but mine is flawless. I actually have to say that John called me last night to ensure that I got my case and I am happy with it so that put a smile on my face

Just my $0.02...

This is the case that Vlad just received. http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=162423

Thanks for the business Vlad.

And for the record,

This time the argument will have an end and it's near.

 

[Ky Boy]

John,

That Tillman case is eye popping!!! Absolutely beautiful and definitely as elegant as anything on the market!!


Gary

 

[ftgokie]

Listen...If you do not think for a second that these 2 guys are trying to overcome the other in such a manner as to 'WIN' then you are wrong. If JJ eventually admits to a flaw (whether there is one or not), don't you think JB will feel as though he is the victor in this situation???

Every debate is about convincing one or another they are right...I do believe that Jack is overly arrogant about his cases and he is extremely set in his method and not open to outside constructive criticism. John Barton has his methods as well but I do believe he is more customer oriented than Jack. I mean no disrespect to either of these gentleman and on the contrary RESPECT both of them. They have found a way to make money in a sub-cultural market that seems to be diminishing everyday. I applaud them both.

However, saying there will be no clear cut winner or loser after this is done is, well, naive at best. John Barton will make his case and win this argument by his willingness to admit he is still PRACTICING his trade to eventually have a perfect product. While Jack believes he has a perfect product already...later. JMO


Gary

I totally agree with you KY....if this were to be done, there wouldnt be any question as to who would win on cue protection. Again, as I have stated before, I like both casemakers cases, but if I want protection, I will get a JB. I just got a lightly used tube Justis, and honestly, I feel comfortable with my cues in this case.

But I think JB, like you said, is more driven by what the customers want and need. He understands that thousand dollar cues need to be protected, and his design does just that.

 

[JB Cases]

John,

That Tillman case is eye popping!!! Absolutely beautiful and definitely as elegant as anything on the market!!


Gary

Thank you.

This is the lid that was done afterward. I hope I can get Tommy to do some pix of it with the ornate lid on it.

 

[JDB]

Hello all, here is a pic of my new John Barton case. It's hard to get a good picture because the case is black on black but I think we got a decent on here.

It's a totally plain case with my name engraved on the case cap (this is the style I like). The quality of the materials and workmanship is better than I imagined.

John was great working with me as well as patient. I am super happy with this case.

Great case, Dan, Congrats, can't wait to see it in person on Sunday.

After seeing this, I had to get one too. You know; gotta keep up with the "Jones". So I ordered the case that is on John's signature (Feligree Dragon case).

I won't have it on Sunday but I am already looking forward to it. I had been thinking for a while upgrading my case to start carrying a break cue and a jump cue; however, after seeing the case in John's signature and hearing about your great experience, I had to take the plunge.

 

[Pool Player 101]

Okay. Not to poke the bear, but ....

I dont' think that cue cases need to be 'bullet-proof'. I treat my cases with cues inside with the respect that they deserve. I don't throw my case. I don't drop my case. I don't put my case in the back seat of a car and drive down a bumpy road. Maybe roads are different in North Carolina, but ....

I think most of use respect and handle our equipment with the care that they reserve and a lot of the 'protection' that JB espouses is OverKill and JJ has it pretty much right on.

Just my Humble Opinion.

 

[JB Cases]

Okay. Not to poke the bear, but ....

I dont' think that cue cases need to be 'bullet-proof'. I treat my cases with cues inside with the respect that they deserve. I don't throw my case. I don't drop my case. I don't put my case in the back seat of a car and drive down a bumpy road. Maybe roads are different in North Carolina, but ....

I think most of use respect and handle our equipment with the care that they reserve and a lot of the 'protection' that JB espouses is OverKill and JJ has it pretty much right on.

Just my Humble Opinion.

Well........ one poster here related a story about his cue getting damaged while in a Justis and he was called a liar by Jack.

Another couple posters have relayed stories to me in private about their cues being damaged in a Justis case.

Another customer told me a story about he and his friend walking out of the pool room and the snap failing on his friend's $2300 Justis case as $4500 in cues ALL fell out of the case and flew into the snowdrift. He and his friend were scrambling in the snow looking for all the cue parts.

But beyond that, why should you have to baby your case? Sure you don't drive down bumpy roads but you act as though you have never hit a jarring bump. What if you are opening your case and someone stumbles into you and causes you to drop your case? Don't you want the cues to stay put in that situation?

Let's just forget about Justis for a moment.

I was at the Valley Forge show two years ago and Jerry Olivier took me over to see a player whom he had just given a cue to. Jerry wanted to show me the cue. The player had an el cheapo case where the cues were loose in the case. He has to tip the case slightly forward to get the cues out and one shaft gets away from him and as he reaches for the shaft he loses the butt. Jerry dives for it but it's too late and wham it clatters to the floor and gets a nice new ding where it hits the metal chair leg.

Naturally Jerry was sad to see that happen.

I took the player over to our booth and give him a nice new PADDED Sterling case where he not only doesn't ever again need to tip his cues but also they will stay in the case if it should happen to become inverted for some reason with the lid open.

So you say overkill, I say insurance.

And really, the cost of insurance is like $2 extra in padding and work at best to make a major improvement. Isn't it a shame that Jack doesn't feel that his customers deserve something a little better than what is offered on the cheapest tube case on the market?

 

[ftgokie]

Okay. Not to poke the bear, but ....

I dont' think that cue cases need to be 'bullet-proof'. I treat my cases with cues inside with the respect that they deserve. I don't throw my case. I don't drop my case. I don't put my case in the back seat of a car and drive down a bumpy road. Maybe roads are different in North Carolina, but ....

I think most of use respect and handle our equipment with the care that they reserve and a lot of the 'protection' that JB espouses is OverKill and JJ has it pretty much right on.

Just my Humble Opinion.

But....

And I totally see what your saying...I take really good care of my stuff as well, but things do and will happen. What if you just happen to accidentally drop your case (just an accident) I know its an extremely rare thing, but it does and can happen. Wouldnt you want the peace of mind to know that the EXTRA step has been taken to insure your cues are protected? What do you think would happen if you dropped your Pro Lite case and it had a 2700.00 Sugartree with 2 shafts, and a Searing with 2 shafts in it in an interior that moves around...you will hear your cues banging together. If they were in an interior that would not allow them to move wouldnt you feel better? I mean everyone is different, and with me, if an accident is gonna happen, it will happen to me...so I would prefer to put them in a case that held my cues more secure...now, if Jack made a case that held cues as secure as John, I would honestly go with a Justis, just for the resale factor. I just cant take a chance on my cues getting accidentally banged together

But that is just me and everyone is different

 

[ftgokie]

JJ :rotflmao1:

 

[JB Cases]

...now, if Jack made a case that held cues as secure as John, I would honestly go with a Justis, just for the resale factor. I just cant take a chance on my cues getting accidentally banged together

But that is just me and everyone is different

And that is the WHOLE thing right there.

I mean check this out?

IF Jack is telling the truth and his interiors are truly made loosely fitting so that they can be quickly changed then WHY NOT OFFER the customers options?

Why not respond to people like yourself who feel a little more peace of mind if your cues are sitting nice and snug in the case?

Couldn't he just tell the his Chinese partner to send over some "Deluxe" versions of his current interior?

For Jack it's another cash cow. The cost to him would be a few dollars more per piece and he can (would probably) charge $50-$100 MORE for the ProPad (tm) or whatever he might call it.

Instead of knocking me why not respond with an equivalent interior to be put into his expensive shell? Then it's win/win for Jack and the customer.

Well I just bought a Justis - I think I might see about making those interiors to retrofit a Justis. I like the brand name ProPad and will go with that. "Pimp Your Justis Today With the ProPad!" Make your ProLite as cushy and secure as your mother's embrace!

Just $99.95 order now.

 

[9ballGOD]

It is amusing because jack really doesnt care about protecting his customers pool cues, he is just in it for the cash it seems to me. if he were in it to help protect the customers pool cues, he would take some constructive criticism, i believe he is smarter than all of us though and we dont know what we are talking about.

and a case build off would not be fair to jack, because he only builds 1 style and they ALL look pretty much the same, unless he sends them out to have them tooled. and his cases dont offer any protection, they may look good, but dont protect your pool cues any.

he is just a bitter old man and hates when people make honest statements about his cases

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Would be nice if the thread returned to talking about, My New J. Flowers Case

IMHO tis a nice case!!!!

 

[LC3]

I agree that this thread has done a lot to sharpen our focus on a case's primary function.

I have a case with unpadded tubes and have never been completely comfortable with how much room there is for my cue to knock around inside the tubes. Especially now that I have a vintage cue that I want to preserve as long as possible, excellent protection is important to me.

John, I really like your case interiors, and the rest of the case seems to be just as good. In terms of construction quality, I consider your current cases the BMW of the case market. Kudos!

 

[JB Cases]

Would be nice if the thread returned to talking about, My New J. Flowers Case

IMHO tis a nice case!!!!

The whole thread IS talking about "My New J.Flowers (Tribute) Case".

Because a few folks decided to try and introduce some negativity it took a new course and everyone got a little more education about the finer points of "My New J.Flowers Case".

 

[bignasty]

mr. barton

The whole thread IS talking about "My New J.Flowers (Tribute) Case".

Because a few folks decided to try and introduce some negativity it took a new course and everyone got a little more education about the finer points of "My New J.Flowers Case".

why is the truth "negativity" thats all i want to know in your email you take the fact of me asking a legitamate question about the word tribute and where it went, spun it to a teardown of jack justis and me! now my question is turned into"negativity" why is that? i apolagize for having asked a question about your case in this thread, it is a beautiful case and i hope he loves it! i guess i am just a few of the negative ones that questioned something you do! sorry i never flamed your thread when it first started thought it was a noble idea! turnss out the idea was more noble than the outcome! im sorry mr. barton i wont question anything you do again!

 

[vin]

Okay. Not to poke the bear, but ....

I dont' think that cue cases need to be 'bullet-proof'. I treat my cases with cues inside with the respect that they deserve. I don't throw my case. I don't drop my case. I don't put my case in the back seat of a car and drive down a bumpy road. Maybe roads are different in North Carolina, but ....

I think most of use respect and handle our equipment with the care that they reserve and a lot of the 'protection' that JB espouses is OverKill and JJ has it pretty much right on.

Just my Humble Opinion.

you'll never know when your case is gonna drop. might be a drunk casual pool player bumps into it? when your kid gets playful and bumps into it? i am one of those who needs the protection cause i dont have a car, i bring my case on trains and walk with it.

 

[JB Cases]

why is the truth "negativity" thats all i want to know in your email you take the fact of me asking a legitamate question about the word tribute and where it went, spun it to a teardown of jack justis and me! now my question is turned into"negativity" why is that? i apolagize for having asked a question about your case in this thread, it is a beautiful case and i hope he loves it! i guess i am just a few of the negative ones that questioned something you do! sorry i never flamed your thread when it first started thought it was a noble idea! turnss out the idea was more noble than the outcome! im sorry mr. barton i wont question anything you do again!

I will speak for myself here. First I apologized to you in the initial private email exchange for jumping to the conclusion that your post was motivated by your association with TAR and the fact that Jack Justis donated a case to TAR. That was 100% WRONG of me to make that assumption and I will publicly repeat the same apology I gave to you in private.

That said I still feel as I told you in private email that you are or should be well aware of all the negativity between Jack and I over the name and look of the cases. There was no need whatsoever to even ask any question about the word "tribute" in this thread. Dan Avsec was just showing off a case and that's where it should have been left at.

You introduced a negative even if you don't see it that way. Roadie responded and then Jack jumped in to make another accusation that he can't back up. I asked Jack to leave me and threads about my products alone.

So, again I apologize for accusing you in private email of stirring the pot between Jack and I. The things I said about Jack are no different than what I have stated publicly so they stand as said. I hope that you can see that your question, no matter how innocent, would have been better suited to another thread on the subject of "tribute" products. I think that this IS a worthy topic to discuss. Just not in my customer's thread where he is happy to show off a case.

As Roadie said, it wouldn't go down very well at all if someone else posted in a Justis Case bragging thread how much it looked like a Jay Flowers' case. I think we would all agree that such a comment, whether valid or not, would be out of place and negative.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

John you know what I would say if your customers are happy what else is important, as one person once say in a famous quote.

"Imitation is the highest form of flattery"


Plus sometime the Imitation contains improvement on the initial design.:wink: