Spot on.
My rant: Finals shouldn't be played at 1AM on a multi-day event
- Thread starter Tin Man
- Start date
At small tournaments the problems definitely start with late entries and getting the Calcutta done. It never fails that 5 minutes after the entry deadline that the TD announces that so & so is running late but he called and said he would be here in "only" 30 minutes, so we wait. After about an hour the TD announces that all entries are finally present and we will now start the Calcutta. 45 minutes later the TD announces that we are now starting the Calcutta.......................................in 15 minutes. After finally getting thru the Calcutta with going once, going twice, going six times we will finally start play..................after the brackets are set up (why wasn't someone doing this during the Calcutta?). I always feel so fortunate that I arrived when the doors opened 2 hours before the Calcutta was due to start and now only 5 hours later I am getting ready for my first match. I often think that I should be one of those that arrive at the last minute but with my luck that would be the one tournament that actually started early or even on time.
I completely agree with the original post from Tin Man. I have split local events at 2 am due to sheer exhaustion, lack of enthusiasm, and just not giving a crap at that point. I also lost any interest in league state tournaments for all the reasons posted in the original post. I have played till 4 pm and been expected to start right up the next day at 9 am.. Going all the way to Vegas and playing pool into exhaustion is not something I enjoy or am interested in.
Anyway, in closing the way pool tournaments are run is not player friendly at all, most of the time. Perhaps they will get better it would certainly be nice to see that!
Anyway, in closing the way pool tournaments are run is not player friendly at all, most of the time. Perhaps they will get better it would certainly be nice to see that!
Literally every tournament I've ever played in...lol
Alex is the worst when it comes to walking around the table. There’s a member of OnePocket.org that’s almost just as bad about circling the table. I watch him in the members only tournament and want to tell him to get off the pot and shoot. I often think that part of it is sharking.
The main point of shot clocks is to get the worst snails to move faster. Just having the chess clock there does that. Yes, you do have to figure out good time allotments and for one pocket you have to figure out a good time increment to allow for reasonable safety play. (If my many-qualifier buy-back idea is used, slow matches never hold up more than 8 players.)
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Contact Greg Sullivan directly and let him know you don't like it. It's up to him.
They have been doing the same thing for 20 years or so, it's getting worse, and something needs to change. Limit the number of entrants. Add more tables by moving to a different venue. Figure out some way to keep the tables busy perhaps by herding the cats better. I bet none of those happens next year.
They are aware of the problems. Maybe "they" (singular) don't think the problems are significant. People keep showing up to play in record numbers. Obviously things are good enough.
I think one problem is that the event is large enough and complicated enough that any change is frightening.
Bob, I just want to say you are among the most awesome people ever and I am really glad you are on the forums.
I agree we’re not going to change how these events are run as long as they are successful. Someone else used the phrase ‘beggars can’t be choosers’. I believe there are enough players that would prefer reasonable hours that if someone starting to run events made that a priority they’d have a huge competitive advantage and it would help them grow. Maybe someday TDs that prioritize player experience will start dominating those who don’t and eventually the norms will shift. But maybe not.
As a player all I can do is speak my mind and vote with my own participation as to where I attend. I still play the DCC because the positives far outweigh the negatives and I am no threat to make the finals. But I pass on many other tournaments for this reason. Maybe someday I’ll run events. For now I’ll just be selective and a wee bit vocal.
Eliminating slow play with a shot clock is a great way to start. I mean no offense Tin Man and I may be mistaken but I have saw a few of your matches that were tough to watch do to the pace of play. You are a great player just a little slow and cautious if I remember correctly.
When a couple matches drag on it can slow the whole tournament down in my experience especially with the redraw. A shot clock is a simple solution that should definitely help with this problem.
When a couple matches drag on it can slow the whole tournament down in my experience especially with the redraw. A shot clock is a simple solution that should definitely help with this problem.
As far as the finals being late, I was there for the 9 ball final and the arena was packed full with others upstairs watching. The fans didn't seem to mind the final starting that late. It was brought up about other sports. There have been baseball games that went into the wee hours of the morning due to extra innings. It also has happened in college football with multiple overtimes.
My premise is that overall pool tournaments shouldn’t be run where finals matches are played past midnight.
If this was a rare exception of a record setting performance I could see the drama. When tournament after tournament finishes at 2am then I think it is a problem.
As for derby, I was in the crowd next to my friend. We both were very tired and almost left. Just because we were present doesn’t mean we liked it.
And while DCC might be big enough to draw an audience at 1am, I have played many finals in front of an empty pool room because of the late hour. I don’t think it’s ideal for anyone.
We don’t have to agree. You can play and watch the tournaments you choose. It’s clear I’m not alone in my choosing not to watch or participate in events that can’t run on a reasonable schedule.
Take care!
No offense taken. My pace overall has quickened in the last year, but there are plenty of times it slows down. I had a few times when the games were critical and My confidence was low, and I took the time I needed to give myself the best chance of winning. Some people may enjoy a guy like me digging deep to try to regroup after a few mistakes and coming through with some good runs for the win. Others might be irritated I didn’t just run the table over effortlessly. Each to their own.
As for shot clocks, the problem is you have 40 tables in different rooms for 12 hours or more a day. It is a logistical nightmare to moderate.
But again, there are many, many other solutions. But the biggest problem is the organizers don’t feel it is a problem.
I’m not trying to beat a dead horse, just trying to respond to those who posted my direction.
tomatoshooter
Well-known member
I don't want players to have to rush their shot process and compromise their performance, but some guys play with no sense of urgency either. It can honestly seem like the people who are pathologically late because they like to keep people waiting. If you genuinely need the time to think about a big shot take it but don't luxuriate in an unlimited supply of time like you are soaking in a bubble bath. In one pocket taking time to think about shots is part of the game. I like the idea of putting a match on a shot clock if it's running too long. If I generally shoot in 20 seconds, I will take a minute or more to think about a crucial shot once every two racks.
I hold the tournament director (or whoever sets the rules and format) 100% accountable for all scheduling issues.
You can’t run late event after event, year after year, and blame the players. We know the range of player styles. Now budget for them and get it handled.
Again, there are many ways to solve the problem. What matters is commitment to a reasonable finishing time.
Now, if the TD wants to solve the problem with a shot clock (and they have the resources to enforce that) that’s fine by me. If they want to shorten the races on the B side, fine. If they want to start earlier, fine. If they want to cap fields, fine. I don’t care how they do it. I just care that it gets done.
Mike Zuglan does it without a shot clock. So does Pat Flemming. So have many other people. It’s not hard. You just have to make it a priority.
I’m delighted to see how many people agree that late tournaments are a problem. Hopefully with enough feedback, be that complaints or lack of participation, tournament directors will have to give more weight to player experience at some point. If not I hope others come along and build events for those to whom this is a real issue.
The finals being that late is not a norm. I have been to over 15 derby city classics and most of the time the 9 ball final is done before midnight. However there have been a handful of times when it is late. It is just one of those things that we all know is possible. Congrats on cashing in the 9 ball btw.
Thank you! The event gets tougher and the player pool is getting stronger and stronger.
As for late finishes, I wasn’t referring to just the derby. I am referring to pool tournaments in general. Many pool tournaments end up with finals after midnight. I was simply using this year’s Derby as an example as the finals started around 12:30. In the pool world this actually isn’t that bad, which to me shows the depth of the problem and how normalized this has become. Most players are so used to tournaments running past 2am and until 3-4am that this was considered reasonable.
There’s no right and wrong with personal preference. I’d you’re ok with matches starting after midnight I’m not here to tell you you’re wrong. Im just expressing that I consider it unreasonable and there seems to be a lot of people who share that view.
We’re all good my man!
Thank you! The event gets tougher and the player pool is getting stronger and stronger.
As for late finishes, I wasn’t referring to just the derby. I am referring to pool tournaments in general. Many pool tournaments end up with finals after midnight. I was simply using this year’s Derby as an example as the finals started around 12:30. In the pool world this actually isn’t that bad, which to me shows the depth of the problem and how normalized this has become. Most players are so used to tournaments running past 2am and until 3-4am that this was considered reasonable.
There’s no right and wrong with personal preference. I’d you’re ok with matches starting after midnight I’m not here to tell you you’re wrong. Im just expressing that I consider it unreasonable and there seems to be a lot of people who share that view.
We’re all good my man!
To be honest, I wish things didn't happen that late myself as I left after the 9 ball final to drive 3 hours home. But I think that pool players are so used to it that it isn't a problem for them. I mean the minis start at midnight and they have a full field every year. The busiest time for the action room is late at night. It is like it is engrained in the pool world for stuff like that. But yeah, it would be nice if things didn't go that late.
Part of the problem is there are many players that just want to get as much pool into their weekends as possible, since they don't get that many chances throughout the year to compete. I know I'm not the only one that fits that description. So it's us pool binge seekers that create this late-night pool player environment. I know I'm guilty of being the last action match going at a bigger regional event, while the directors were watching us over our shoulders. Tin Man is just sort of on the other side of the fence, where he is actually planning out which professional events he wants to play in, and he wants to perform at his best there. Most amateurs, who are fueling the Derby atmosphere, just aren't in that same mindset. They're more thinking, how much pool can I get in before I go back to work on Monday? I think it's this mindset more than anything, that gives the promoters a long leash when it comes to scheduling matches late into the night.
Good point. I know my friends were doing the same thing. Trying to play as much pool as they could before we left.