My view on how low Pro payouts are..

Russ Chewning

Short Bus Russ - C player
Silver Member
First of all, let me clarify my feelings on sports in general.

It's basically a matter of the biggest, fastest, strongest, meanest ape gets the banana.

I feel it is a statement about society in general that sports figures get paid the astronomical amounts that they are, and they are held to be in high regard, yet probably 15% of the population knows off the top of their heads who Jonas Salk was. Or who Leeuwenhoek was. Both of these men have impacted humanity more than Michael Jordan could ever hope to.

Granted, these are historical figures who were not alive in today's economic climate. Doesn't matter. Scientists today are just not respected as in years past. And they don't get paid what they are worth.

Now, on to men's payouts. Get over it, "Pros". Very very very few of you would be pros if you didn't spend every waking moment as teens practicing, with no responsibilities. You made a choice, way back then. You chose a game over school. If you could have had both, then you should have made the effort to excel at both school and pool. If you could not commit the time to both school and pool because pool took too much practice time, then... well, I guess you made your choice.

No whining! Pool hasn't been a profitable profession for more than about 3 or 4 Americans at any time that anyone who is alive can remember. If you chose to forego the preparations of "real life" in order to practice for a game, well, take what the world is giving you. Or quit playing pool and get a real job.

There are probably about 10 American poolplayers who make enough money to support a family, what with health insurance costs and whatnot. Note I said that actually make enough to support that family, whether they actually have one or not.

Yet we see these same pros gambling 10K-20K at the DCC. And they are not always winning. Even our BEST players are still acting irresponsibly with the money they have been lucky enough to win.

Charlie Williams is one of the rare exceptions. I've heard he's already put a sizeable amount down on a house, and has actually used his success to invest, and now has side income coming in. In effect, he is now just as much a businessman as a player.

I have ZERO sympathy for the players out there who have not been able to make a living even though they are in the top 20. It's a GAME. I think ALL games should be played for the love of the game. Yes, Basketball, baseball, soccer, football, golf, pool, etc. If that were true, we wouldn't have all the high dollar production values, or we might not be able to see every NBA game the whole season.. Oh boo-hoo, that would be a shame.

And I have even LESS sympathy for the players who have had great success in the recent past and then go and ****ing blow the money gambling with another player. That is just incredibly stupid. Danny Diliberto once said about Alex Pagulayan that Alex likes to gamble, could have $20,000 one day and broke the next. But Danny made it seem like this was something to be ADMIRED? And guys like Danny D. are mentoring tommorrows's players? Dog help us all!

For the pros out there who have to make sacrifices to play the game, sorry, no sympathy. Pool would have still been there if you had waited 4 years to get your college degree. And then you'd have something to fall back on. You knew there was no money in pool. You made the decision to play because it was fun at that particular time, and you had no responsibility. Be happy promoters take the time to get together ANY major tournaments, and be happy if the winnings allow you to pay your trip fees. A lot of fans pay the same costs just to WATCH the tournaments, and have no way of making the money back. Of course, they are the ones who TRULY love the game.

Russ
 
A Sunday sermon to start my day off!
biglaugh.gif
 
I hope one day pool gets the respect it deserves in terms of money, but I think the nature of the game and top pool players may stop this from happening. I am in my last semester as a Biology major and picked up the game 3 years ago. I know there is no money in pool but I am going to be entering a profitable feild with time to play. See you at major events in the nest few decades :D

Eric.A.
 
This is gonna get silly. Somebody will end up suspended or banned. You heard it here first.

That out of the way. We all make our choices and live with results. I see so called successful people with "Real jobs" and familiy's of various levels of disfunction and they are miserable people. All they do is b!tch that they have so much responsibility they can't do anything for themselves.

An example. I worked for Ford Motor Co. as an hourly employee. One of my coworkers was in his late 50's, a Vietnam Veteran who had lost part of one leg below the knee. He worked 6-7 days a week 8-12 hrs. a day. One day he was complaining about not having any money for lunch. I asked him how a guy who made over a 100k a year didn't have money for lunch.
His response: "Well every week I give my wife my check and she gives me $50 for the week. I spent more than usual and am broke." I was stunned.

Now this is an extreme example, but I have seen it too much to buy into the "You must be married with children, home, and proper cars to be a happy respected person" BS.

I have heard road gamblers and "stable family men" both b!tch about the exact same things. I know many, many men who would at times love to be able to get up and do whatever they wanted when they wanted. Just as I know some guys with too much time on the table who wonder if they are going to die alone and broke.

I see your point Russ. But I also bet everyone here has made decisions with their heart instead of their head. And we all deal with results the best we can. No use hammering some one for it.
 
There never will be any money in pool because it is viewed by the general public as less than savory. Who can blame them for having that opinion?

Pool is a love of mine but it always comes second to my career. I make 80+ thousand dollars a year and there is no way I could or would even want to try to make that playing pool. If I have a choice between staying up all night and playing for $100 or going to bed on time so I can work and make $250, it's a no brainer. There was a time many years ago when I played every night but I was yound and foolish then. Now I have a mortgage.
 
Pool will never have big prize money because it is not popular enough, or exciting enough to draw big tv ratings. I think anyone who is the best at whatever they do should make good money. Current sports payouts are of course way out of whack, but it would be nice to see the best pool players earn a living. Of course, there was a time that even the best baseball players required off season jobs. Maybe it will change someday. I do think that everyone should be educated to a degree. An injury could easily end any sport career, including pool. I think both sides of the argument have valid points.

JCIN,
I do not think the point is that a 40 hour work person is happier than a traveling pool player. More that, they should demonstrate an increased level of responsibility. If pool players were not looked upon in the manner they are, then the sport may grow more quickly and draw more youth. How many fathers want to bring their children into a smoky pool hall with alchohol or bar where gambling is occurring to teach them the game. In general, if you do nat have a home table, you start the game later in life. It may also help if youth events were more prevalent.
 
I rack balls said:
I hope one day pool gets the respect it deserves in terms of money, but I think the nature of the game and top pool players may stop this from happening. I am in my last semester as a Biology major and picked up the game 3 years ago. I know there is no money in pool but I am going to be entering a profitable feild with time to play. See you at major events in the nest few decades :D

Eric.A.


I have to take issue your first sentance. Respect has to be earned!!!!
 
all i know is

pool is tough to make a living yes.but alot of people i know are broke and hate their life and they are way more educated than me and have good jobs.anyway my point is russ chewning seems to like to belittle pro players. my dad puts things in perspective for me he says ,i would rather make 20 thousand a year playing pool ,traveling around the world ,being on tv,being famous in your craft ,being your own boss,being on mags,having people admire you ,some being hot girls lol,playing golf 3 times a week ,than making 60 thousand a year like he does.in a nut shell russ im not going to knock you for what you do ,and you should quit knocking poolplayers .for the record some of the perks i pointed out about playing pool for a living were directed at russ to make him jeolous,problem is with just about every post he makes ,he makes it plain to see that he already is. you know money is great i wish i had more ,but at the end of your life can you say you enjoyed it.if you can thats about all you can ask for. p. s. hey russ next time your on your soapbox talking like your better than everybody else just remember just about anyone can do your job , but mine ,well you get the idea lol
 
john schmidt said:
pool is tough to make a living yes.but alot of people i know are broke and hate their life and they are way more educated than me and have good jobs.anyway my point is russ chewning seems to like to belittle pro players. my dad puts things in perspective for me he says ,i would rather make 20 thousand a year playing pool ,traveling around the world ,being on tv,being famous in your craft ,being your own boss,being on mags,having people admire you ,some being hot girls lol,playing golf 3 times a week ,than making 60 thousand a year like he does.in a nut shell russ im not going to knock you for what you do ,and you should quit knocking poolplayers .for the record some of the perks i pointed out about playing pool for a living were directed at russ to make him jeolous,problem is with just about every post he makes ,he makes it plain to see that he already is. you know money is great i wish i had more ,but at the end of your life can you say you enjoyed it.if you can thats about all you can ask for. p. s. hey russ next time your on your soapbox talking like your better than everybody else just remember just about anyone can do your job , but mine ,well you get the idea lol

Hey John...glad to see you hear on AZ with the Sharks. I met you at Grady's 14.1 tournament in Columbia a few years ago and just wanted to say thanks for telling me about Hunter cues. He makes a hell of a great cue!
 
Russ Chewning said:
First of all, let me clarify my feelings on sports in general.

It's basically a matter of the biggest, fastest, strongest, meanest ape gets the banana.

I feel it is a statement about society in general that sports figures get paid the astronomical amounts that they are, and they are held to be in high regard, yet probably 15% of the population knows off the top of their heads who Jonas Salk was. Or who Leeuwenhoek was. Both of these men have impacted humanity more than Michael Jordan could ever hope to.

Granted, these are historical figures who were not alive in today's economic climate. Doesn't matter. Scientists today are just not respected as in years past. And they don't get paid what they are worth.

Now, on to men's payouts. Get over it, "Pros". Very very very few of you would be pros if you didn't spend every waking moment as teens practicing, with no responsibilities. You made a choice, way back then. You chose a game over school. If you could have had both, then you should have made the effort to excel at both school and pool. If you could not commit the time to both school and pool because pool took too much practice time, then... well, I guess you made your choice.

No whining! Pool hasn't been a profitable profession for more than about 3 or 4 Americans at any time that anyone who is alive can remember. If you chose to forego the preparations of "real life" in order to practice for a game, well, take what the world is giving you. Or quit playing pool and get a real job.

There are probably about 10 American poolplayers who make enough money to support a family, what with health insurance costs and whatnot. Note I said that actually make enough to support that family, whether they actually have one or not.

Yet we see these same pros gambling 10K-20K at the DCC. And they are not always winning. Even our BEST players are still acting irresponsibly with the money they have been lucky enough to win.

Charlie Williams is one of the rare exceptions. I've heard he's already put a sizeable amount down on a house, and has actually used his success to invest, and now has side income coming in. In effect, he is now just as much a businessman as a player.

I have ZERO sympathy for the players out there who have not been able to make a living even though they are in the top 20. It's a GAME. I think ALL games should be played for the love of the game. Yes, Basketball, baseball, soccer, football, golf, pool, etc. If that were true, we wouldn't have all the high dollar production values, or we might not be able to see every NBA game the whole season.. Oh boo-hoo, that would be a shame.

And I have even LESS sympathy for the players who have had great success in the recent past and then go and ****ing blow the money gambling with another player. That is just incredibly stupid. Danny Diliberto once said about Alex Pagulayan that Alex likes to gamble, could have $20,000 one day and broke the next. But Danny made it seem like this was something to be ADMIRED? And guys like Danny D. are mentoring tommorrows's players? Dog help us all!

For the pros out there who have to make sacrifices to play the game, sorry, no sympathy. Pool would have still been there if you had waited 4 years to get your college degree. And then you'd have something to fall back on. You knew there was no money in pool. You made the decision to play because it was fun at that particular time, and you had no responsibility. Be happy promoters take the time to get together ANY major tournaments, and be happy if the winnings allow you to pay your trip fees. A lot of fans pay the same costs just to WATCH the tournaments, and have no way of making the money back. Of course, they are the ones who TRULY love the game.

Russ

Dude, you need to relax, your are obviously under some kind of stress, step back from the computer, go outside and scream, you will feel better!!!!!!!!!:eek: :D

Then double your medication, and think pleasant thought's;)
 
john schmidt said:
anyway my point is russ chewning seems to like to belittle pro players.

Not at all. I just want you guys to shut up and play pool. Take what money you can win, and be happy with it. Quit whining that there is not enough money in the game. You picked your profession. If you want to organize a tour that rewards professional players with a living, then do it. Don't act like it's someone else's responsibility to bring money to pool. You know, if you like pool AND want to make money, you COULD always take up teaching. Scott Lee makes far more than you're likely to average in your career. He posts on here if you want to discuss a career change from professional loafer to travelling instructor. Just be warned.. Some players will want to learn how to play better on (gasp!:eek: ) "Those ego building, non skill requiring pieces of **** you call bar tables."


my dad puts things in perspective for me he says ,i would rather make 20 thousand a year playing pool ,traveling around the world ,being on tv,being famous in your craft ,being your own boss,being on mags,having people admire you ,some being hot girls lol,playing golf 3 times a week ,than making 60 thousand a year like he does.

That's your Dad. I am going to be encouraging my son to pick a career that makes a difference. Funny thing is, all those careers seem to make a lot of money. Funny how that works.. And, actually, it's about 244 thousand a year right now, thanks. About the time your game is running down and you start getting desperate looking for a way to support the family you will have at 40, I will be retiring. The overwhelming majority of older professional poolplayers in their interviews have said how they discourage youth from taking up the game. What do they say? "Go to school." Once in a great while, one of the players listens. And again, don't act like you couldn't have chosen school AND pool. Dan Louie was a better all around player than you, won a World Championship, had a college degree, and a successful business for a long time.



in a nut shell russ im not going to knock you for what you do ,and you should quit knocking poolplayers .for the record some of the perks i pointed out about playing pool for a living were directed at russ to make him jeolous,problem is with just about every post he makes ,he makes it plain to see that he already is.

Haw haw haw... I'm jeolous, err.. jealous, eh? Heh heh.. The only thing I am jealous of is that you had the chance to practice enough to see how far you could take your game. I won't debate that. But I also think you are paying a huge price for that chance. As far as the "perks".. Obviously you did not fully read my original message. I think people should compete for the pleasure of competition. If they happen to make a little money, that's great. I am strongly against massive compensation for playing any type of game at all. And the women that are attracted to a poolplayer just because he's a poolplayer? Good luck with them, man. I'll take the cute little computer nerd/pre med chickie over a pool groupie anyday. And another perk you mentioned? Travelling around the world? Heh heh.. I am ex military, man. I guarantee you I've been to more countries than you have.

you know money is great i wish i had more ,but at the end of your life can you say you enjoyed it.

Yup, especially since I am soon renovating my garage into a billiard room, so I'll be getting to play as much as I want anyways, with the additional "perks" of not wondering where next month's rent is coming from. Oh wait.. That's right.. I don't rent. I OWN my house.

p. s. hey russ next time your on your soapbox talking like your better than everybody else just remember just about anyone can do your job , but mine ,well you get the idea lol

Nope, sorry, I don't. If I decided to totally ignore what I wanted to accomplish in life, (early retirement, putting kids through college, etc) I have no doubt I could win a major event and numerous regional events. I just happen to have been aware at a young age that I would want kids someday, and I would want to be prepared to put them through college.

And to address your other point, you're right.. SOME other people could do my job. Except those that have criminal records. And those that don't both have a very high technical aptitude AND good writing skills. (hint hint) And if they can, they are welcome to apply for the job and retire very young along with me. That way, we can enjoy being "bangers" at 40, while you are doing.. Whatever it is 40 year old players are doing to make the rent money.

Have a nice day!

Russ
 
john schmidt said:
pool is tough to make a living yes.but alot of people i know are broke and hate their life and they are way more educated than me and have good jobs.anyway my point is russ chewning seems to like to belittle pro players. my dad puts things in perspective for me he says ,i would rather make 20 thousand a year playing pool ,traveling around the world ,being on tv,being famous in your craft ,being your own boss,being on mags,having people admire you ,some being hot girls lol,playing golf 3 times a week ,than making 60 thousand a year like he does.in a nut shell russ im not going to knock you for what you do ,and you should quit knocking poolplayers .for the record some of the perks i pointed out about playing pool for a living were directed at russ to make him jeolous,problem is with just about every post he makes ,he makes it plain to see that he already is. you know money is great i wish i had more ,but at the end of your life can you say you enjoyed it.if you can thats about all you can ask for. p. s. hey russ next time your on your soapbox talking like your better than everybody else just remember just about anyone can do your job , but mine ,well you get the idea lol
tap...tap...sometimes all people see are the dollar signs and are so blind that they don't see the things that pro pool playing doesn't necessarily buy...like freedom to say "Hey, I don't have a boss to f'in answer to....building cues does that too...
 
the pro players could have it worse they couldve been teachers.

Instead of traveling and being short of cash all day,

they could end up dealing with college kids all day, with no time to spend money earned.

Oh the joys of college children all there youth and coming of age tales.

Then with a twist put it all at an engineering school where most of them are boys, need I say more.

The implications of the engineering school being severe lack of speaking skills. Half the time its like Im talking to some movie script, music line.

I do go to work enthusiastic everyday. But somedays I really understand why parents send their kids away for college.

There are a few standouts in the bunch which can make it worthwhile.:)

Watching these kids make decisions everyday is more suspense then I need for a lifetime.

I could go on for weeks at this subject. I picked it so thats what comes with it.:)

If you read this far I appreciate it.
 
Last edited:
Craig Fales said:
tap...tap...sometimes all people see are the dollar signs and are so blind that they don't see the things that pro pool playing doesn't necessarily buy...like freedom to say "Hey, I don't have a boss to f'in answer to....building cues does that too...


Rrrrrrright.. Tell me again why pro pool and college/real work can't go together, a la Dan Louie, Irving Crane, Steve Mizerak, etc?

Russ
 
john schmidt said:
pool is tough to make a living yes.but alot of people i know are broke and hate their life and they are way more educated than me and have good jobs.anyway my point is russ chewning seems to like to belittle pro players. my dad puts things in perspective for me he says ,i would rather make 20 thousand a year playing pool ,traveling around the world ,being on tv,being famous in your craft ,being your own boss,being on mags,having people admire you ,some being hot girls lol,playing golf 3 times a week ,than making 60 thousand a year like he does.in a nut shell russ im not going to knock you for what you do ,and you should quit knocking poolplayers .for the record some of the perks i pointed out about playing pool for a living were directed at russ to make him jeolous,problem is with just about every post he makes ,he makes it plain to see that he already is. you know money is great i wish i had more ,but at the end of your life can you say you enjoyed it.if you can thats about all you can ask for. p. s. hey russ next time your on your soapbox talking like your better than everybody else just remember just about anyone can do your job , but mine ,well you get the idea lol

That's an exceptional post, John. All of us have choices to make in life, and there are tradeoffs to consider when we make those choices. You have made the case well that fulfillment and quality of life can take many forms, and that we should respect each other's choices and wish each other well in pursuit of whatever dreams they decide to chase.
 
justnum said:
the pro players could have it worse they couldve been teachers.

Instead of traveling and being short of cash all day,

they could end up dealing with college kids all day, with no time to spend money earned.

Oh the joys of college children all there youth and coming of age tales.

Then with a twist put it all at an engineering school where most of them are boys, need I say more.

The implications of the engineering school being severe lack of speaking skills. Half the time its like Im talking to some movie script, music line.

I do go to work enthusiastic everyday. But somedays I really understand why parents send their kids away for college.

There are a few standouts in the bunch which can make it worthwhile.:)

Watching these kids make decisions everyday is more suspense then I need for a lifetime.

I could go on for weeks at this subject. I picked it so thats what comes with it.:)


Hah hah, I hear ya, brother! They may be little morons right now, but I'm sure you've taught some who will go on to do great things... That make a difference..

Russ
 
john schmidt said:
pool is tough to make a living yes.but alot of people i know are broke and hate their life and they are way more educated than me and have good jobs.anyway my point is russ chewning seems to like to belittle pro players. my dad puts things in perspective for me he says ,i would rather make 20 thousand a year playing pool ,traveling around the world ,being on tv,being famous in your craft ,being your own boss,being on mags,having people admire you ,some being hot girls lol,playing golf 3 times a week ,than making 60 thousand a year like he does.in a nut shell russ im not going to knock you for what you do ,and you should quit knocking poolplayers .for the record some of the perks i pointed out about playing pool for a living were directed at russ to make him jeolous,problem is with just about every post he makes ,he makes it plain to see that he already is. you know money is great i wish i had more ,but at the end of your life can you say you enjoyed it.if you can thats about all you can ask for. p. s. hey russ next time your on your soapbox talking like your better than everybody else just remember just about anyone can do your job , but mine ,well you get the idea lol
I agree with you john ,and russ, but the sad thing is professional pool players are way under paid.its an absolute joke what you pro players make.
to be the best at any sport you should be paid accordingly,BUT not in pool.
 
the players need to really open up all avenues of income for themselves.

Tours are a big chunk, and if you ever did retail you know most of the money comes in seasonally.

I cant really say how they can diversify I could only guess that they have lots of experience and unique meetings which people can benefit from hearing about.

I was saw a few politicians give speeches and it really shows they cant relate to som people. At best they can provide points of agreement.

With the the touring pros traveling and meeting they have insights into things many of us can never know.


My experience would say increase merchandising and name branding, I dont know if a pro player would be comfy carrying products to sell, but they could carry something to sell.

Id buy collectors items like a bio program with pictures and then have them sign. Yea they probably need someone to be a sales rep, but they could do it through the billard hall so they dont have to handle cash.
 
Last edited:
Russ Chewning said:
Rrrrrrright.. Tell me again why pro pool and college/real work can't go together, a la Dan Louie, Irving Crane, Steve Mizerak, etc?

Russ
I suppose in an ideal world that could happen...and I never said that it couldn't....
 
Back
Top