I think we might have a winner.....thediamond said:
Mystery Cue w/Fellini Case on eBay
- Thread starter ridewiththewind
- Start date
titlistsucker
Deceased
skins said:
IMHO the early Ginas are marked, or primarily uses Titlist Blanks. So dont think it is so.. but it has been bidded up to 1500+ for an unknown cue so probably there are many who believed it is worth a bit of money..
titlistsucker said:
The points looked dead even to me, however those notched diamonds do look suspect....
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I am a little perplexed. I have been thinking about this for a while and have debated whether to comment or not. When is it proper to comment on items(cues, cases and other billiard stuff)that come up on ebay, or someones pool related site. If someone asks for advice, I can probably see giving an opinion. You could even be discreet and PM the individual with the question.
I love the cues/cases and billiard memorabilia and my understanding is anything is worth what the next person will pay for it. I don't mean the obvious scam auctions that are trying to mislead someone. For instance, if someone puts up a nice Scruggs with 4 veneers, ivory diamonds in the points, leather wrap, etc., who's to say it is worth $1500 or $2500? I guess I'm old school but I just don't think it is right to knock someone's stuff. I also know that people come to this site for expert advice and that is a great thing about this site. So many knowledgable people. There are just one or two people who seem to comment negatively on almost every cue. I Just wanted other people's input on this.
I love the cues/cases and billiard memorabilia and my understanding is anything is worth what the next person will pay for it. I don't mean the obvious scam auctions that are trying to mislead someone. For instance, if someone puts up a nice Scruggs with 4 veneers, ivory diamonds in the points, leather wrap, etc., who's to say it is worth $1500 or $2500? I guess I'm old school but I just don't think it is right to knock someone's stuff. I also know that people come to this site for expert advice and that is a great thing about this site. So many knowledgable people. There are just one or two people who seem to comment negatively on almost every cue. I Just wanted other people's input on this.
ridewiththewind said:
Lisa,
Nice pic. Think we now know what it's not.
Sean
JG-in-KY said:
that's what your getting. this forum is priceless when it comes to ebay auctions. with all the scams out there is pays to talk about the cues that are for sale. this is awesome because you get the advise from allot of people who have been there and those who wish not to and you don't have to pay a penny. you can't put a price on that!
ridewiththewind said:Here's what bothers me. When I contacted him about the rubber bumper, part of his response was that about 4 people have told him it might be a Bushka. If someone were kind enough to give me that info, I would have to pull the auction and send the cue to Tascarella for authentication, and then re-list...well, I wouldn't (I'd keep it).
Lisa
Lisa,
I think you hit the nail on the head. My guess is it's already been authenticated and the results were not going to enhance the value.
Chris
titlistsucker
Deceased
JG-in-KY said:
The cue was listed as an unknown cue. i making guesses on the possibility of cue maker and origins. Absolutely no intention to slam the auction, or knock any cue. You r right on the anything is worth what the next seller would pay for, and obviously the bidders probably knows what they are paying for to be bidding on the cue. Sorry if i ruffle some feathers..
Bgrds
RC
You gotta admit it though...it's been grand fun trying to figure this one out!
Someone, and I think I know who, emailed the seller and asked how he came about it. Basically it was cue owner owed dad some money, left the cue, never came back for it, sat it the closet for the next 30 yrs.
I could swear this same story came up in an auction about 6 mos ago! Or maybe it was just deja vu!!
Lisa
Someone, and I think I know who, emailed the seller and asked how he came about it. Basically it was cue owner owed dad some money, left the cue, never came back for it, sat it the closet for the next 30 yrs.
I could swear this same story came up in an auction about 6 mos ago! Or maybe it was just deja vu!!
Lisa
The High Bidder
Hi all.
I'm the high bidder on the mystery cue at this time. I have a couple of very personal reasons for that. Both have to do with the question of actual "practical" value, versus the "subjective" value of the cue. And I must admit that I suffer from the latter on 2 fronts.
First off...I am a filmmaker, shooting a small independent film that I'm directing, and I want to use this vintage cue in my film. Aesthetically it is worth quite a bit to me. Casting an important prop in a film can be very important. It is a visual medium. And there are many things that read in life to the naked eye that do not read on film.
The more patina a prop or location has, the more texture, the more recognizable real history that it can convey by its own nature, the more you can trick an audience's mind into buying the make believe world that you are creating. The closer to real that you craft the world of your characters, the more likely the audience is to follow them on their journey, and hopefully care about what happens to them.
That is worth something. To me...quite a lot.
But on top of that, I feel personally compelled to own this cue, as a sister piece to another that is equally mysterious, and definitely made by the same maker during the same time period many years ago.
I have several unquestionably valuable cues. But the cue that I have, much like the one in question on this thread, is one of my favorite cues, no matter who actually made it.
Yes, I agree with Chris. I too believe it is a Spain forearm. And when I first looked at the inlays, the MOP diamond reminded me of the same shape diamond that Ginacue was using way back in the day. TAD as well. And not to say that either of them made this cue, but unless it was a "Tribute" cue for someone who wasn't dead yet, and if it was a beautifully made knock-off for a special client, would they have signed it? Would it have been labeled either a Gina or a TAD? Why would anyone, back in the 60's label it as such?
So, considering how much we are all paying for so many brand new cues these days, I do not think that bidding $1,500+ for a cue as well made and beautiful as the one I already have is out of line. To me...it's worth it. If I was trying to re-sell it...maybe not. But my intention is to film it and keep it.
And as to the seller possibly having had it authenticated and not being up front about his bad news...I highly doubt that. His ad mentioned possible makers. But his ad did not mention Balabushka, until one of us interested parties did. Or someone who was genuinely trying to help him NOT sell a possible GEM for nothing.
Even on this thread, the very real possibility of it being a Balabushka was presented, and I do not believe it was by the guy trying to sell the cue on eBay.
It could simply be that it was in his father's closet all those years, and that some personal or family need has made it necessary to sell it now, and that he's trusting that we - the market - will do the authenticating for oursleves. Or just pay whatever we, or I in my own very specific case, will pay for it.
Just my 2 cents. I too have enjoyed both cue's mysteries, as well as this thread.
And yes...I am probably not making a great "return on my investment" purchase if I do bid up the item much further, because all of you are correct about this cue to varying degrees, if not entirely, of this I am sure. You are an incredibly well educated about this subject resource that I am quite frankly humbled by and learn from.
But, I bid for my own reasons and sense of value, based on a very particular context. Probably true for the gentleman listing the cue.
It is cool that the cue has stirred so much controversy. If I ever find out who made either cue...I'll definitely let y'all know.
Thanks all.
Cain
Hi all.
I'm the high bidder on the mystery cue at this time. I have a couple of very personal reasons for that. Both have to do with the question of actual "practical" value, versus the "subjective" value of the cue. And I must admit that I suffer from the latter on 2 fronts.
First off...I am a filmmaker, shooting a small independent film that I'm directing, and I want to use this vintage cue in my film. Aesthetically it is worth quite a bit to me. Casting an important prop in a film can be very important. It is a visual medium. And there are many things that read in life to the naked eye that do not read on film.
The more patina a prop or location has, the more texture, the more recognizable real history that it can convey by its own nature, the more you can trick an audience's mind into buying the make believe world that you are creating. The closer to real that you craft the world of your characters, the more likely the audience is to follow them on their journey, and hopefully care about what happens to them.
That is worth something. To me...quite a lot.
But on top of that, I feel personally compelled to own this cue, as a sister piece to another that is equally mysterious, and definitely made by the same maker during the same time period many years ago.
I have several unquestionably valuable cues. But the cue that I have, much like the one in question on this thread, is one of my favorite cues, no matter who actually made it.
Yes, I agree with Chris. I too believe it is a Spain forearm. And when I first looked at the inlays, the MOP diamond reminded me of the same shape diamond that Ginacue was using way back in the day. TAD as well. And not to say that either of them made this cue, but unless it was a "Tribute" cue for someone who wasn't dead yet, and if it was a beautifully made knock-off for a special client, would they have signed it? Would it have been labeled either a Gina or a TAD? Why would anyone, back in the 60's label it as such?
So, considering how much we are all paying for so many brand new cues these days, I do not think that bidding $1,500+ for a cue as well made and beautiful as the one I already have is out of line. To me...it's worth it. If I was trying to re-sell it...maybe not. But my intention is to film it and keep it.
And as to the seller possibly having had it authenticated and not being up front about his bad news...I highly doubt that. His ad mentioned possible makers. But his ad did not mention Balabushka, until one of us interested parties did. Or someone who was genuinely trying to help him NOT sell a possible GEM for nothing.
Even on this thread, the very real possibility of it being a Balabushka was presented, and I do not believe it was by the guy trying to sell the cue on eBay.
It could simply be that it was in his father's closet all those years, and that some personal or family need has made it necessary to sell it now, and that he's trusting that we - the market - will do the authenticating for oursleves. Or just pay whatever we, or I in my own very specific case, will pay for it.
Just my 2 cents. I too have enjoyed both cue's mysteries, as well as this thread.
And yes...I am probably not making a great "return on my investment" purchase if I do bid up the item much further, because all of you are correct about this cue to varying degrees, if not entirely, of this I am sure. You are an incredibly well educated about this subject resource that I am quite frankly humbled by and learn from.
But, I bid for my own reasons and sense of value, based on a very particular context. Probably true for the gentleman listing the cue.
It is cool that the cue has stirred so much controversy. If I ever find out who made either cue...I'll definitely let y'all know.
Thanks all.
Cain
caindevore said:
Cain,
I respect the fact that you have the spirit to buy what you like and set your own parameters for value. This is what a collector should do. If nothing else, with this cue, it can be verified as a Burton Spain nose (which I'm pretty sure it is) and with a little work, I think we can find the maker.
I would also like to document this adventure on my web site. You are a true enthusiast.
For those who don't know Cain, he has a 3rd sense for value and amazes me at how well he has bought and traded including Szamboti, Scuggs, Palmer, and more. He also is not afraid to move on cues that catch his fancy and has developed a nice network of contacts to consult in these matters.
Chris
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"That's IF you get the cue."
Very true, Gerry. Very true.
I actually didn't mean to make it sound like I necessarily would.
I will be curious to find out even if I only have the one.
The really interesting question is...
Will ANYONE, except the maker, be able to tell us definitively?
I'll make this promise to the thread:
I will send the one in my possession out to have it authenticated.
No matter what happens with the auction cue.
Hopefully Pete, or Ernie, or Bill will be able to tell us.
I do think it's curious that both cues delivered with fairly fancy Fellini cases.
The "Knock-Off" artist really went out of their way to insinuate the cue's future false legend.
Cain
Very true, Gerry. Very true.
I actually didn't mean to make it sound like I necessarily would.
I will be curious to find out even if I only have the one.
The really interesting question is...
Will ANYONE, except the maker, be able to tell us definitively?
I'll make this promise to the thread:
I will send the one in my possession out to have it authenticated.
No matter what happens with the auction cue.
Hopefully Pete, or Ernie, or Bill will be able to tell us.
I do think it's curious that both cues delivered with fairly fancy Fellini cases.
The "Knock-Off" artist really went out of their way to insinuate the cue's future false legend.
Cain
Cain,
I wish you the best of luck on the auction. It is a neat old cue, and it has been a great source of speculation here.
Will you be using it to film a pool film, per chance? Someone needs to make another great one.
Lisa
I wish you the best of luck on the auction. It is a neat old cue, and it has been a great source of speculation here.
Will you be using it to film a pool film, per chance? Someone needs to make another great one.
Lisa
Thanks, Chris!
Coming from you, Chris...I take that as a real compliment.
You too are a true enthusiast! You have not become the Palmer Collector, with such an extraordinary collection, and website, and database, and love for classic and impeccably crafted cues of all makes because it was either your job, or because someone was holding a gun to your head.
The fact that someone would have to be holding a perfect Model "J" to your head to have any hope of gleaning "classified information" from you, is a true testament of collecting in its purest form.
As old man Webster says, an "amateur" does something for the LOVE of it.
That's you. In the best possible way.
And the really great amateurs challenge the pros with their commitment to the sport, the cue, the art of the cue, and how we arrived at this place in the history of our game.
All true for you, Chris.
That's exactly why you are such an important and trustworthy part of my "nice network of contacts to consult in these matters."
I need you guys. Bad. Your knowledge and advice has helped liberate and confirm my "3rd sense". But it's also guided me away from the wrong cues, or perhaps the wrong particular example of the right cue.
As you recently said to me Chris, "That cue you are interested in is a great cue. You should definitely have one. But perhaps not that one. I'm not sure that is the best example for you to get. I believe that I know that cue, and if I'm right...the cue has issues."
I did not have that knowledge. So, thanks very much, Chis. And Greg. And Adam. And Jeff. And Barry. And Ernie. And the first person to ever call me back about a question on a cue...one of his...Tim Scruggs. And to all of you who love billiards and cues so much, that you are willing to share and cross reference your phenomenal combined histories of fact and intuition on this and other boards.
And I guess I should thank Pete ahead of time. As it looks like I'm going to be sending my cue to him soon for authentication.
Apparently, the mystery cue that I already have has an unbelievable story behind it. And the truly great irony of it all is that I don't have any idea what that story is. I was told that I would one day learn it.
That day has not yet come.
Maybe I should just make a film about the auction cue - the mystery of it all - and the unraveling of it through this thread. It could have Hitchcock-like overtones, as well as the gum-shoe pace of an old noir thriller.
"COLLATERAL CUE"
COMING SOON - TO A BILLIARD HALL NEAR YOU
Coming from you, Chris...I take that as a real compliment.
You too are a true enthusiast! You have not become the Palmer Collector, with such an extraordinary collection, and website, and database, and love for classic and impeccably crafted cues of all makes because it was either your job, or because someone was holding a gun to your head.
The fact that someone would have to be holding a perfect Model "J" to your head to have any hope of gleaning "classified information" from you, is a true testament of collecting in its purest form.
As old man Webster says, an "amateur" does something for the LOVE of it.
That's you. In the best possible way.
And the really great amateurs challenge the pros with their commitment to the sport, the cue, the art of the cue, and how we arrived at this place in the history of our game.
All true for you, Chris.
That's exactly why you are such an important and trustworthy part of my "nice network of contacts to consult in these matters."
I need you guys. Bad. Your knowledge and advice has helped liberate and confirm my "3rd sense". But it's also guided me away from the wrong cues, or perhaps the wrong particular example of the right cue.
As you recently said to me Chris, "That cue you are interested in is a great cue. You should definitely have one. But perhaps not that one. I'm not sure that is the best example for you to get. I believe that I know that cue, and if I'm right...the cue has issues."
I did not have that knowledge. So, thanks very much, Chis. And Greg. And Adam. And Jeff. And Barry. And Ernie. And the first person to ever call me back about a question on a cue...one of his...Tim Scruggs. And to all of you who love billiards and cues so much, that you are willing to share and cross reference your phenomenal combined histories of fact and intuition on this and other boards.
And I guess I should thank Pete ahead of time. As it looks like I'm going to be sending my cue to him soon for authentication.
Apparently, the mystery cue that I already have has an unbelievable story behind it. And the truly great irony of it all is that I don't have any idea what that story is. I was told that I would one day learn it.
That day has not yet come.
Maybe I should just make a film about the auction cue - the mystery of it all - and the unraveling of it through this thread. It could have Hitchcock-like overtones, as well as the gum-shoe pace of an old noir thriller.
"COLLATERAL CUE"
COMING SOON - TO A BILLIARD HALL NEAR YOU
The Ultimate Collection!
Hi Lisa.
Thanks very much for throwing out some good wishes and a little luck. Yeah...I hope I get it, too. For many reasons. More now, since this thread.
I think it would be a great in a Bizarro World way if I became the penultimate collector of the only two KNOWN examples of this UNKNOWN "Mystery Maker's" cues.
I could create a new website dedicated to the 2 cues and call it either:
www.WeHaveNoFreakingIdeaWhoMadeTheseCues.com
or
www.I'veBeenToldThatI'mNutsForPayingSoMuchFor2TotallyUnidentifiedFlyingPoolCues.com
Yeah...either of those works for me.
Hi Lisa.
Thanks very much for throwing out some good wishes and a little luck. Yeah...I hope I get it, too. For many reasons. More now, since this thread.
I think it would be a great in a Bizarro World way if I became the penultimate collector of the only two KNOWN examples of this UNKNOWN "Mystery Maker's" cues.
I could create a new website dedicated to the 2 cues and call it either:
www.WeHaveNoFreakingIdeaWhoMadeTheseCues.com
or
www.I'veBeenToldThatI'mNutsForPayingSoMuchFor2TotallyUnidentifiedFlyingPoolCues.com
Yeah...either of those works for me.
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titlistsucker
Deceased
It be nice if you could post pictures of the the other cue u have? Anyway good luck on the auction.
Bgrds
Raist
Bgrds
Raist