Mystery Cue w/Fellini Case on eBay

Jensen

I was really hoping to get a chance to buy that cue. But authentification was a big issue. Speculation on a cue that can stir this much dissection and controversy, and an ultimate lack of certainty on a board with this much knowledge, is a big risk.

I would have gladly paid $5,000 for that cue if it WAS indeed a Bushka. Wouldn't any of us? And I was ready to.

But I'm an independent filmmaker, and I truly am the hip hillbilly in the old Hollywood Hills. (Translation: I can't really afford to live here anymore...but I also can't afford to sell!) So, that was too much of a gamble. At least for me.

If the seller was in a place or circumstance that he could have allowed the sale of the cue to be contingent on authentication, I would have sent him that much. So, I can certainly understand someone with more money than I being willing to take that chance. 5,000 dead presidents is not as much to some as it is to me.

So...we can't always get what we want (thank you Rolling Stones), and some people CAN take a chance on not getting what they want, even if they have to pay a great deal for that disappointment.

If the final deal was contingent on autheification...then good for the seller, who I'm sure could use the $, and good for the buyer if it proves to be a Bushka. If it's not...that will mean no hurt no foul.

As I said earlier in this thread, for my own very specific reasons, even if it wasn't a Bushka, I wanted this cue badly. But in the end, there was a limit to how far my uncertainty would take me, or I guess allow myself to go, in pursuit of that desire. I had to remind myself that it is just a pool cue.

I know - that's practically blasphemy on this site.

But the biggest reason why I reduced my offer considerably and apparently lost out to the Big Apple, is because I was called the day that the auction was pulled, and told by someone who is a trusted and very knowledgle ally, that the cue in question was definitively an early Jensen copy of a Balabushka.

And since they would know way better than I would, that was enough to tip my uncertainty meter way over the edge.

By the time I sent this new information I had gleaned to the seller, so that I could retract and adjust my offer, the item had already been pulled from eBay.

The irony is that early on in this thread, someone asked, "early Jensen?"

And whether you agree or not, I trust my source inherently.

I don't know much, but from the very get go, the MOP diamonds bothered me. At least in context to it being a possible Bushka. I told the seller as much, because so many people had told him that they thought it was a Bushka. He said that some SWORE with dead certainly that it was a Bushka. He also said others had great doubts. But the shape and style of the diamonds did not seem consistent with Bushka. And they were not lustrous, like his were. Rather dull. Maybe not MOP at all.

So, I was really intriqued when someone here suggested that all the answers sleep with the fishes...I mean...lie with the diamonds.

I'd love for them to expound on that. It was a delightfully cryptic consideration on a theme.

So, last I will say about the seller is that in all of my correspondences with him, he never said with any confidence that it was ANYTHING BUT an old cue that his dad had gotten as collateral on a debt, which had been sitting in his dad's closet for 30 years.

In fact, he seemed genuinely surprised and kind of amazed by the ruckus his cue had caused. But I'm sure that he was also pleased. Because of some of the offers he was getting, it must have been quite a revelation when he realized that he was sitting on more "old cue" than he knew.

He was nothing less than a gentleman in how he handled the circus his cue brought to town with it, at least with me. And I therefore wish him and the buyer well, whoever that is.

But, man...I really wanted that cue!

Maybe I can get Jensen to make me a copy of it.

Goodnight all.

Cain
 
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The cue has not sold to anyone, he offered it to me a few hours ago. I'm no collector but I would bet if Joe Van or Mark K got to look at it to verify it alot of people on this board would be surprised.

P.S. it is not an early Jensen or Horn :rolleyes:
 
inrush said:
The cue has not sold to anyone, he offered it to me a few hours ago. I'm no collector but I would bet if Joe Van or Mark K got to look at it to verify it alot of people on this board would be surprised.

P.S. it is not an early Jensen or Horn :rolleyes:

The cue was clearly a Bushka. Instead of coming here and intentionally misleading people, (see earlier post by someone else) we elected to ride out the auction. Maybe I will e-mail him and let him know just exactly what we could consign the cue for. :)

Joe
 
Not going to be too many people arguing with you, Joe. I certainly wouldn't with your experience. I collect cues but it seems I have still have some way to go with the vintage end of the market.

If you and Mark believe it to be cosha, I got $5k right here, right now :D
 
classiccues said:
The cue was clearly a Bushka. Instead of coming here and intentionally misleading people, (see earlier post by someone else) we elected to ride out the auction. Maybe I will e-mail him and let him know just exactly what we could consign the cue for. :)

Joe

I dont see myself coming here and intentionally misleading people. I was just giving my two cents on what i think on an unknown cue. Of course i wouldnt be able to argue with your experience.

Bgrds
RC
 
I am a Dilettante

I consider myself well versed in current custom cue makers but I am a Dilettante when it comes to these classics as they are beyond my generation. Can someone tell me how they hit with respect to current day cues--are they worth the money or is it all nostalgia or magic. Ive been itching to ask this one guy to hit his original Gus? He paid $375 for it new, direct.
 
paulybatz said:
Can someone tell me how they hit with respect to current day cues.

Stiffer, fatter, heavier. That describes both physical attributes as well as "how they hit."

They generally wouldn't be described as "soft hitting." Those that love the solid "ping" sound (as opposed to the nasty, non-solid 'ping' sound) would love an older classic cue.

Fred
 
titlistsucker said:
I dont see myself coming here and intentionally misleading people. I was just giving my two cents on what i think on an unknown cue. Of course i wouldnt be able to argue with your experience.

Bgrds
RC

Raist, don't think he was talking about you. Someone else made an earlier comment agreeing with the assessment that it might be an early R.Black with Spain front. Then on this last page they are mentioned as having made a $5k offer.

I thought the cue probably wasn't legit based on a few things, but I am no expert on these cues (wish I were though). If Joe and Mark K. say it looks legit, then it's a VERY GOOD bet that it is.

Sean
 
Its not me either Raist, already PMd Joe about it and got a reply.

I was in the same boat as you, Sean. Something looked off but I will not argue with knowledge and experience beyond my own. Still, Spain front has to be right, surely!!!!??????

Si
 
paulybatz said:
I consider myself well versed in current custom cue makers but I am a Dilettante when it comes to these classics as they are beyond my generation. Can someone tell me how they hit with respect to current day cues--are they worth the money or is it all nostalgia or magic. Ive been itching to ask this one guy to hit his original Gus? He paid $375 for it new, direct.

I played with an original Balabushka over the Thanksgiving holidays and was amazed by the hit....very solid and sweet, but the thickness of the butt would take some getting used to. Not really like any cue I have ever played with.

The cue I played with belonged to an old friend, Lewis Alexander Goff, Jr (AKA: Lefty, Jr, or the Florida Kid). He is a southeast legend (the magazines refer to him as the "consumate" gambler), now 82 years old, but a real force in the money game world in the late 50's thru 70's (I still would not want to play him one-pocket for money). His has a Titlist forearm with the window butt...got it in 1959 or so directly from George. This is the cue referenced that Rocky Tillis used as a template for his early cues.
 
Cornerman said:
Stiffer, fatter, heavier. That describes both physical attributes as well as "how they hit."

They generally wouldn't be described as "soft hitting." Those that love the solid "ping" sound (as opposed to the nasty, non-solid 'ping' sound) would love an older classic cue.

Fred

This is just my own observation having learned to shoot pool in the 1960 and 1970's.

The old cues are exactly what Fred describes because the conditions were different. The cloths were nappy and pilled up, and the rails were inconsistent and more often than not dead.

My first custom cue was a Gina made in the 1960's. It was 21 ounces and the weight was mainly in the big fat butt. 57" was a common length at the time and standard weight was 20 to 21 ounces. The shorter a cue is, the stiffer it tends to be. The woods used were still from old growth trees, which had harder, denser growth. 17 or 18 ounce cues were considered to be ladies weights but they were always available.

Since the tables were slow you wanted a heavier, stiffer cue because you were hitting many of the shots harder than we do today.

I still pick up an old cue once in a while, a Palmer bar cue, or an early Joss, or a Hoppe, and play for awhile. I've never played with a Balabushka because I don't have one.

These cues have so much character. When I'm playing with one, I kind of see in my mind's eye Mosconi sitting in the chair, patiently waiting for me to finish my run, knowing he's going to clean my clock just as soon as I leave him a shot.

Are they worth the money? Of course not, that's why they're so expensive.;)


Chris
 
cueaddicts said:
I thought the cue probably wasn't legit based on a few things, but I am no expert on these cues (wish I were though). If Joe and Mark K. say it looks legit, then it's a VERY GOOD bet that it is.

Sean

I'm only familiar with Balabushka's from the couple I've seen in person and the pictures, but I initially thought it was one because of what appears to be a Spain forearm, the Cortland linen, the general taper, the buttcap, the inlays, and the collar & rings.

The case most likely was made 5 to 10 years after this cue, so the two aren't a pair.

What bothered me about the cue was when the picture of the weight bolt was shown, that whole back end looked new. Now, I suppose someone could have changed out the weight bolt with aluminum to lower the weight, or someone just polished up the old one. Maybe George used these bolts too. But notice also the screw slot has been used (it has marks in the slot from the wrong size scewdriver being used) , so the bolt's been out and more than once too. The screw holding the rubber is new and shiny too - presumably to match the thread of the new bolt and I don't think that's aluminum. So that's why I don't think the bolt is original to the cue.

Now, the second reason why I doubted was because of the behavior of the seller, being told over and over that the cue might be worth a lot, and irrrationally denying it and not even mentioning Balabushka in the ad.

So, that is where my doubt came in. I still have those doubts.

Chris
 
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I myself lean toward it being a Bushka and intended to bid on the cue the last few minutes. The weight bolt is the only thing that looked wrong to me. There are other things that definitely looked Bushka that no one else has mentioned and I don't want to print either. If it is printed it will make more known on how to fake one. Everyone knows there are many fakes out there and we sure don't need more. So for now I am still looking for a nice Spain and Bushka that I can afford. I would have had a little of both in that cue.
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com
 
cueman said:
I myself lean toward it being a Bushka and intended to bid on the cue the last few minutes. The weight bolt is the only thing that looked wrong to me. There are other things that definitely looked Bushka that no one else has mentioned and I don't want to print either. If it is printed it will make more known on how to fake one. Everyone knows there are many fakes out there and we sure don't need more. So for now I am still looking for a nice Spain and Bushka that I can afford. I would have had a little of both in that cue.
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com

FYI My understanding is that the seller refused a substantial cash offer contingent upon authentication. There is more to this story that you might know, and there is more that I might know.
 
Just a thought buy could it possibly be a paradise. a local player has a Paradise that looks very similar to this cue. Just a thought......................mike
 
Oh For Flips Sake, Will Somebody Please Confirm That This Cue Has A Spain Forearm Before I Pack In Cue Collecting And Take Up Knitting.

Simon
 
thediamond said:
Oh For Flips Sake, Will Somebody Please Confirm That This Cue Has A Spain Forearm Before I Pack In Cue Collecting And Take Up Knitting.

Simon

I hereby confirm WITH 100% certainty that this cue, quite possibly contains a Spain forearm. On the other hand, in may quite possibly be something quite different. Hope this expertise helps Si… on the other hand, I could sure use a new pair of UK sox, embroidered with Searings. See yas!
 
thediamond said:
Oh For Flips Sake, Will Somebody Please Confirm That This Cue Has A Spain Forearm Before I Pack In Cue Collecting And Take Up Knitting.

Simon

i hope your not asking anyone to do this based only on those pics?

but when you take up knitting i will definitely take a sweater.:D

ps. i met raj this last weekend when he got in..... were your ears burning?
 
Knitting

I am personally very excited that this thread has taken an ugly turn into the DARK SIDE OF KNITTING!

Now THAT"S a world where strange characters creep through the night, trading and selling black-market yarns, speculating on the true maker of a rare wool scarf, and hoping that the one that they picked up in Trafalgar Square is not a knock-off replica made by Dinky Coomantosa!

We did not know SUSPICION until this moment.
 
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