Myths About Rules/ Bad Habits In 8 Ball

[ENGLISH!]

This hasn't been just a 'yay BCA/bcapl rules' thread. This has been a weird crazy rules thread.

There's a logic to rules- especially when there's a whole set of rules that work together. Rules make opportunities and take some away. They encourage a variety of skills. They make a game equally fair between both players.

Reread some of those crazy rules listed above along those lines: do the rules cited above serve a purpose? Do they work in harmony with the rest of the rules of the game, or do they just confuse? Do they encourage skill or do they encourage favoritism, fighting, or just luck?

They make a game equally fair between both players

EQUALLY FAIR? NOT JUST FAIR...BUT EQUALLY FAIR.

Sounds like, 'They're TOO good... so... we'll change the rules to make it MORE EQUALLY FAIR'. 'They shoot too good when the cue ball is up against the rail. So let's put a rule in where 'we' can move it off the rail ONE CUE BUTT WIDTH' ('But his butt is bigger than mine.') 'We don't care if that & that alone can effect the outcome of a game, we have to make the COMPETITION more EQUALLY FAIR."

So now if they can do it then I can do it, & I can now stop or draw the ball where I could not before. Has the NEW rule been EQUALY FAIR...to them? I'm just say'in! EQUALLY FAIR?

PS The above is an example of a very LOGICAL rule.

PSS The rules that were in place, for how long, I'm guessing now, say more than 300 years, They were not LOGICAL & they certainly were not EQUALLY FAIR.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I can play by ANY set of rules...if I know what the rules are BEFORE the game begins! The problem with "bar rules" is they are NEVER posted in the bar! I use to be an OTR truck driver and have played in bars and pool rooms in just about every state in the country. There are as many different "bar rules" as there are bars! There is NO "standardized" set of bar rules, but that's ok...I never let "rules" stop me from humiliating my opponent!

I agree.. There is one guy about my age (58) whose father taught him to play 'totally clean, call your SHOT, 8 ball'. You can NOT use your opponents balls or the 8 ball in any way to aid or assist in the making of your own balls. No mixed ball combos, no carums, nothing using the 8 or your opponents balls. That's how HE plays WHENEVER he plays. When I play him, I play the way his father taught him. No one else will play him that way. I shoot billiards or carums & mixed ball combos all the time but not when I play him & I win much, much more than he does. I do it out of respect for him & his father that taught him that way.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Wow I never realize that call was that common. 1 reason I don't play. Hate arguing.

How about an obstructing ball 2 ball widths from the rail and your ball rocks it before going in. DIDN'T CALL THAT KISS. NO GOOD. Who in their right F'n mind would call that kiss. Scotty Beam Me Up!!

It depends on the situation, but if you're playing 'CALL THE SHOT' & you did not call the kiss you did not make the shot as called. We play that way ALL the time unless a newbie wants to simply play call the pocket.

 

[ENGLISH!]

IMHO, rules are for the purpose of making the game fair if are applied the same to all players.
I started playing bar pool in 1963, at that time there were no bar table leagues. In about 1965 a played in the first bar league, I think, in Oakland, Ca. at THE RED VEST on E. 14 St.
Every bar in the league had it's house rules posted and that's what we played by and they were not always the same. After a while the bar leagues started to standardise the rules for the league, when leagues weren't being played posted bar rules were still the law. Why because only a few of the patrons played in leagues.

In those early days of bar pool the rules veried from bar to bar, to name a few.
Make the 8 on the break, you win. Even in league play.
If you made a stripe on the break that's what you had, if you made one of each, the table was open until the next legally pocketed ball by either player.
Slop was the general rule, hit your ball first and if it goes in a hole it counted. It could have jump over the light first, still counted.
Most bars were call pocket 8 ball, some were not, if either way it didn't matter the route the 8 traveled to find the pocket.
Now and then clean eight call pocket was the rule, the clean part mostly to be determinded by your opponent.
Hard eight was another rule you had to watch for. Hard 8 works like this, if you are shooting at the eight and don't contact the eight with the cue ball, you lose game over.
1 & 15 in the opposing sides sometimes but not often
Call pocket or call shot on every ball not very often.
Fouls, pretty much there weren't any, move a ball any ball you made sure your opponent or someone was watching and you put it back.
Any and all disputes were settled by the bartender who would point to the posted rules and say work it out a$$h@#$s.
In the sixties bar pool was loose and fast, gambling the norm from drinks to double & triple digit bets. People still when to bars to cash there paychecks, more than one bar even had cashier cages.
I've seen some fights in bars but never a physical one over a pool game,
maybe I was just lucky.
For all you nits pissing and moaning over Barbox/bar rules or big table rules for that matter. Maybe you should partner up with a friend and take up some other sport with a more standardized set of rules, like golf.

Dale

I agree. ALthough, almost every person playing weekend golf has his own set of rules, except for the ones playing by the real rules. But... at least that game does have its' own standardized rules.

 

[Mr. Wiggles]

Crazy eight ball stuff!

Hey everyone.

I'm creating a poster that will debunk/expose myths about the rules of 8 ball as pool hall art. It will list such things as how to properly rack 8 ball (everyone thinks the rules state it has to alternate solids/stripes etc), rules on scratches on the break, rules on calling shots (I've heard things like "you can't call the 8 off another ball - it has to be clean"), and other ridiculousness that drunk people or ignorant people make up in order to make the game favor them.

This will be a fun, boldly designed poster intended to not only inform, but entertain those reading.

So, what has everyone out there heard that is absolute ridiculousness when it comes to the rules of 8 ball? For simplicity's sake, let's follow rules by the BCA. I believe World Standardized Rules are similar. If not, we should stick to BCA (please, no APA rules!).

Also, I'm aware that threads similar to this have come up in the past, so please save us all the "this thread is here:" nonsense. This is more about what rules/habits/nuances of the game that people make up, and this poster will debunk. Thanks all, any input will be awesome.

I thought I had heard it all until I ran into this chick that said I couldn't run into her balls! Those are mine and you can't run into them in any way!?!? I just laughed and played her way, being careful not to disturb her balls.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I thought I had heard it all until I ran into this chick that said I couldn't run into her balls! Those are mine and you can't run into them in any way!?!? I just laughed and played her way, being careful not to disturb her balls.

A similar rule is that it's a foul to pocket your opponent's ball. This is actually an official rule in English eight ball (AKA "black ball"): http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/index.asp?id=120&pagetype=rules#5.13 but it's not a foul if you pocket one of your group on the same shot. English eight ball has a lot of other rules most Yanks would find surprising. Another rule that appears in some versions of the game that I've seen in US bars is that you must make an effort to pocket one of your balls. One of the more severe EEB rules is that you lose the game if you don't try to hit one of your balls.

 

[Donny Lutz]

No bar table leagues in 1963?

IMHO, rules are for the purpose of making the game fair if are applied the same to all players.
I started playing bar pool in 1963, at that time there were no bar table leagues. In about 1965 a played in the first bar league, I think, in Oakland, Ca. at THE RED VEST on E. 14 St.
Every bar in the league had it's house rules posted and that's what we played by and they were not always the same. After a while the bar leagues started to standardise the rules for the league, when leagues weren't being played posted bar rules were still the law. Why because only a few of the patrons played in leagues.

In those early days of bar pool the rules veried from bar to bar, to name a few.
Make the 8 on the break, you win. Even in league play.
If you made a stripe on the break that's what you had, if you made one of each, the table was open until the next legally pocketed ball by either player.
Slop was the general rule, hit your ball first and if it goes in a hole it counted. It could have jump over the light first, still counted.
Most bars were call pocket 8 ball, some were not, if either way it didn't matter the route the 8 traveled to find the pocket.
Now and then clean eight call pocket was the rule, the clean part mostly to be determinded by your opponent.
Hard eight was another rule you had to watch for. Hard 8 works like this, if you are shooting at the eight and don't contact the eight with the cue ball, you lose game over.
1 & 15 in the opposing sides sometimes but not often
Call pocket or call shot on every ball not very often.
Fouls, pretty much there weren't any, move a ball any ball you made sure your opponent or someone was watching and you put it back.
Any and all disputes were settled by the bartender who would point to the posted rules and say work it out a$$h@#$s.
In the sixties bar pool was loose and fast, gambling the norm from drinks to double & triple digit bets. People still when to bars to cash there paychecks, more than one bar even had cashier cages.
I've seen some fights in bars but never a physical one over a pool game,
maybe I was just lucky.
For all you nits pissing and moaning over Barbox/bar rules or big table rules for that matter. Maybe you should partner up with a friend and take up some other sport with a more standardized set of rules, like golf.

Dale

The National Pocket Billiard Association out of Milwaukee organized a bar table pool league in 1959. They began having "national" tournaments in the '60s, and went out of business in the '80s, I believe. The Jim Stansfield Leagues, the Midwest Pool Leagues and eventually the VNEA took their place.
I don't doubt there were bar leagues before that; they were patterned after the bowling leagues that were in their heyday in the '50s...

Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor