D'oh! That's exactly right - for all the formats. 10-ball is $10K based on 250 entries.
NAPA Nationals - No Diamond Tables
- Thread starter rookiepsu
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D'oh! That's exactly right - for all the formats. 10-ball is $10K based on 250 entries.
I am with you on that.
You don't need to be psycho-analyzed to know why Diamonds are the best table to play on.Personally I would avoid any regional or nation (bartable) tourney that doesn't use Diamonds.It is also nice if they open the tables and charge a green fee.
I can travel half the distance and play in the midwest 9-ball tour the following weekend if i wanted to play on valleys, and it'll cost less; but i'm not as positive about the possibility of getting into the cash out there as i (naively) am about atlanta. *shrug*
if it were a huge event, like vegas for apa or bca, then it'd be a no brainer, excellent experience, lots of pool. with 45 people total... that's a weekly tournament in some places and i dont wanna spend that much money getting there for that.
This ++10. This is the only barbox worth practice... lmo. Will NOT play on anything else... Not even 'for fun'... I have enough 'bad rolls' in my game without having to deal with bad equipment on top of that. Life is too short and I don't need more brain damage from crappy equipment. I've looked around the country a lot this year... it's time for a 'pool table bond fire' for the old style tables. Get the best equipment. Demand the use Diamond- blue labels.
Randy
You might not have had the power to change their direction this time but a league with both regional and national events that are linked into the same system should play on standardized equipment IMO. That should be mandatory for all regional BCAPL charters that they play their events on BCAPL standardized equipment so that people within the system are all competing on the same thing to "make it to" nationals, and then are all competing on the same equipment "at" nationals.
The lack of standardized equipment in this sport has been discussed many times on this forum as one of the many issues this game has when it comes to gaining legitimacy and respect. When you have something like this in your own BCAPL system that you own and control I cannot help but feel you should be pushing to get things standardized within your own league system at the least.
Celtic,
You need to understand something. We DO NOT run the state organizations. They have their own boards and own money. They make their own decisions. To insinuate that I can force them to use anything is just wrong! To make thing mandatory when there are a lot of individual circumstances is being ignorant of the facts.
I don't mind suggestions and criticism - but to put shit out there that confuses everyone is wrong and then makes everybody think we are not doing our job.
Learn the facts before you post - OK?????
Mark Griffin
You need to understand something. We DO NOT run the state organizations. They have their own boards and own money. They make their own decisions. To insinuate that I can force them to use anything is just wrong! To make thing mandatory when there are a lot of individual circumstances is being ignorant of the facts.
I don't mind suggestions and criticism - but to put shit out there that confuses everyone is wrong and then makes everybody think we are not doing our job.
Learn the facts before you post - OK?????
Mark Griffin
I think we can ALL agree that, no matter what the equipment is, we would all like to play on the same equipment, all the time. I HATE "travel" leagues because of the ridiculous variety of playing conditions. yeah, yeah, any good player should be able to overcome those differences - but the question I think we all say "NO" to is - Should we have to?
It would be awesome if Mark (or anyone, for that matter, APA, TAP, USPL, NAPA) could enforce table standards before allowing a venue to be a host, but it just isn't feasible... probably because it would cost everyone involved too much money. :/
It would be awesome if Mark (or anyone, for that matter, APA, TAP, USPL, NAPA) could enforce table standards before allowing a venue to be a host, but it just isn't feasible... probably because it would cost everyone involved too much money. :/
Mark, there are countless sports out there that have nationwide leagues managed by local and regional groups that also mandate regulations and standards for the equipment used when people compete in an event associated with the overall organization.
Whether or not you choose to move towards standardized equipment standards in BCAPL sanctioned events is your choice.
The WPA maintains standards for equipment played in events they sanction.
http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/WPA_Tournament_Table_Equipment_Specifications
Does that mean that anyone out there running an event needs to use equipment that meets those standards? Of course not, but the WPA reserves the right to NOT sanction the event if their standards are not met. The BCAPL is certainly capable of putting out the same demands if they so wished.
WPA said:
That is how things are normally done.
You coming on here and swearing up a storm and resorting to attempts to belittle people by calling them "ignorant" gets you nowhere and it simply makes you look bad. Show some professionalism. What I said "can" certainly be done, if you choose not to do it so be it, you spent your money to buy the BCAPL and you can run it any way you want, but what I said CAN be done if you wished to do it.
You know this full well, the BCAPL would not be the first league system to disallow league sanctioned play and events on a certain brand of table. That has certainly been done before on both a national AND regional scale by other league systems.
Anyhow, respond if you wish but try to control your Tourette's syndrome if not for my sake, then for yours and the BCAPL.
Celtic,
I am responding to the assumptions you make that we can - or should- be laying out criteria for events we have almost nothing to do with.
These state organizations are independent associations. When you say things like it 'can be done' is just NOT TRUE. It just shows you that you do not understand the current league structures.
And to continue to think we can force associations to do things is misleading to everyone. This is what we do - if you think you can do it better - have at it.
It is just very frustrating to defend ourselves against posts that cast us in a bad light - when if the truth were know, we are doing as much as a reasonable organization can do.
BTW - I did not 'swear up a storm' and I don't have Tourette's syndrome or anything else - except a strain on my patience. We have communicated many times over the years - but if you want to know what is possible and what is not possible; perhaps ask in a private email. By putting out your thoughts in public, others will assume you know what you are talking about. And that is where the confusion comes.
BTW #2 - ignorant means uneducated. If I wanted to insult you, I would have called you 'stupid'. But I didn't. And I believe you are 'uneducated' in the workings of a league system. (You are not the only one).
Mark Griffin
I am responding to the assumptions you make that we can - or should- be laying out criteria for events we have almost nothing to do with.
These state organizations are independent associations. When you say things like it 'can be done' is just NOT TRUE. It just shows you that you do not understand the current league structures.
And to continue to think we can force associations to do things is misleading to everyone. This is what we do - if you think you can do it better - have at it.
It is just very frustrating to defend ourselves against posts that cast us in a bad light - when if the truth were know, we are doing as much as a reasonable organization can do.
BTW - I did not 'swear up a storm' and I don't have Tourette's syndrome or anything else - except a strain on my patience. We have communicated many times over the years - but if you want to know what is possible and what is not possible; perhaps ask in a private email. By putting out your thoughts in public, others will assume you know what you are talking about. And that is where the confusion comes.
BTW #2 - ignorant means uneducated. If I wanted to insult you, I would have called you 'stupid'. But I didn't. And I believe you are 'uneducated' in the workings of a league system. (You are not the only one).
Mark Griffin
my previous post is a clear example of if you dont know...dont say lol.
3 more days until registration dead line. i did see that there are 760 eligible players for 10 ball but i don't know the break down of how many for each bracket.
i talked to my lo at league tonight...we happen to play on the same team.
he told me thay paid down to 5th and 12 place depending on which bracket. he was too busy to look up which bracket paid daown to what place.
he was suprised to learn that it is rumored there would not be diamonds at the nationals this year. he said he has not talked to the main office about it but he was under the assumption they were using diamonds.
i got my 25% figure from what he pays in local tournys. example ....32 players he pays down to 8 th place.
his recollection of last year was i came in 32nd place. if i had won that match and my next match i would have been in the money.
my memory was pretty accurate as to what my friend won in both 8 and ten ball last year according to him.
Thanks for the update. I'm just wondering if the registered player list is an accurate list at this point. If there's only 50 people going, like I said in another post, I'm not really sure it's worth the effort to get there. But if the list isn't accurate, and there'll somehow be a ton of after-registration-deadline entries, getting the numbers up to 150 or more... then maybe I'll make the trip. That's why I was asking if you knew about how many actually showed up last year, vs qualified. I've sent a request for info to my LO as well, I'll share whatever I find out. Thanks. 
This post makes a lot of sense to me -- so I guess I need to be marked down as "ignorant" too.
I'm still chewing on this a bit but I'm puzzled by Mr. Griffin's implication that they have practically zero control over what happens in their sanctioned leagues throughout the country.
So I guess they can't force their leagues (since they are independently ran) to play on standardized equipment. Okay I guess that's fine. Well, can they entice, bribe, encourage, beg, or even plead with these leagues to do so? Surely, the BCAPL must have some way to influence some of the decisions that are made at the local levels. If they can't -- I would think that would be a problem.
Would a local league lose their BCAPL sanctioning if they decided to play on bumper pool tables? I certainly hope they would.
You have no clue what you're talking about. It may work in the utopian dream in your head, but not in the real world.
So BCAPL, NAPA, APA, TAP, etc... should all have "standardized equipment so that people within the system are all competing on the same thing to "make it to" nationals, and then are all competing on the same equipment "at" nationals."? Well then you may as well go ahead and demand that "standardized equipment is used for weekly league matches as well and FORCE the bar and poolroom owners to buy all Diamonds. And the older Red logo Diamonds play horrible, may as well force the owners of those to spend $1,500 per table to upgrade those to Blue logo tops.
In some areas of the country there are very few 7' bar tables and they play league on 8' or 9' tables, better force them to buy a bunch of Blue logo 7' Diamonds they don't want or need.
Or what about the areas where people PREFER a Valley or Dynamo over Diamonds? Yeah, let's go ahead and piss them off.....
Better standardize cloth color as well...... And the balls.... Racks.....
Tables for league play are already standardized..... They use 3-1/2' x 7' tables with a slate bed and six pockets. You know how many times I have heard good players from shortstop to pro speed say "I'm not going to that tourney because they're playing on Valleys"? Never. As long as all of the tables at that particular event are all the same brand and size, it doesn't matter, everyone is playing on the same equipment. So what if the regional or state tourney is on Valley's and the nationals on Diamonds, or vice versa.... They're weeks or months apart for one. Two, if your game won't hold up the same on both brands, well, you better take a look into your game, the table isn't the problem.
Ding, ding........
I'm curious who you actually asked (i.e, did you ask your LO or were you just letting this thread stand as your question) and what you actually asked.
I ran it by my LO and he gave me an answer right away. The tables will be Valleys.
Why do you have to come in and be all logical? You can't come in here and make sense when people want to live in fantasy land.
I just played in that tournament. I too was under the impression that the tournament would be played on Diamonds. I was surprised to walk through the door and see Valleys. I prefer Diamonds but I have no problem playing on a Valley, I feel I have an advantage over people who only play on Valleys. The Valley pockets are huge compared to Diamonds, it gives you much confidence.
The problem that I had had with the Valleys at this tournament is that they were the worst recovered tables I had ever seen. Some of the cloth was so loose there were actual ripples in the cloth. If you slid your bridge hand on the table setting up for a shot your hand would slide over a fold because the cloth would bunch up in front of your hand. You could grab the cloth in the center of some of the tables and lift it up 4", I should have had my wife take a picture. Of course this is not Valleys fault, but the owner of the tables. I do not understand why a business that supplies tables would have people who must have zero experience and matching brain power recover tables for them.
I think the problem is the people who make the decisions. (Often the Board of state organizations).
I know Bad Boys clean the balls and the tables on a regular basis. They also use the best balls and cloth made.
Other table suppliers don't take care of their equipment - or use inferior quality stuff - and then the players are subjected to playing on these tables.
Yes - Diamonds might cost more to provide for the events. But they are worth it and you usually get more than just a diamond table - you get clean, level tables with good balls and cloth.
In most cases, the tables could be Diamonds for $5 - $10 more per player. The event promoters are usually just squeezing a little too hard. That is what happened in Wisconsin. And I bet that is what happened at upcoming NAPA nationals.
Sometimes quality costs a little bit more. I have heard about the conditions of the pool tables - I guess you get what you pay for????
Markg
I know Bad Boys clean the balls and the tables on a regular basis. They also use the best balls and cloth made.
Other table suppliers don't take care of their equipment - or use inferior quality stuff - and then the players are subjected to playing on these tables.
Yes - Diamonds might cost more to provide for the events. But they are worth it and you usually get more than just a diamond table - you get clean, level tables with good balls and cloth.
In most cases, the tables could be Diamonds for $5 - $10 more per player. The event promoters are usually just squeezing a little too hard. That is what happened in Wisconsin. And I bet that is what happened at upcoming NAPA nationals.
Sometimes quality costs a little bit more. I have heard about the conditions of the pool tables - I guess you get what you pay for????
Markg