Nature vs Nurture: New study in favor of Nature

The world is full of +4s that are not good enough to get a card ,,,
You have to qualify ,, either in Q school or being the leading money winner on a couple of the mini tours ,,, so just going out and shooting sub par rounds and posting it on your PGA handicap card isn't worth a hill of beans ,,

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Really? I don't care. I also don't care about a world full of +4s. I am neither right or wrong at this point. I have simply bet on Dan making the cut within a year of completing his 10k hours. If he doesn't then he doesn't and I have lost a c-note. You will know in about 4 more years I guess.

What I know for sure is that IF Dan makes his tour card you will find a way to knock it. And if he doesn't you will be saying I told you so.

For me, I admire a guy that's willing to chuck his career and do something like this. To go from ZERO GOLF to putting in 10k hours just to see if he can get to world class is pretty freaking cool. That's the type of world I like to live in and even if Dan doesn't make it to the pros he will have grown tremendously and there will be a lot of data to discuss.
 
So here is a hypothetical question. If you were given the freedom to select 20-30 youths (ages 4-6) per year, remove them from their homes, give them access to world class coaching and training, and allow them to completely dedicate their lives to the task of becoming world class athletes in a given Olympic discipline. How would you select the kids in order to maximize your chances of success?

Would you examine their physical characteristics?
Would you examine their parents and their physical characteristics?
Would you give them a battery of cognitive tests?

i.e. would you examine any inheritable, genetically influenced traits? or do you think a random selection of kids would yield the same chances for success?

You could ask the Chinese because that's pretty much what they do. Children are trained for their physical aptitude and are often assigned sports to train in. The best of those are sent on to higher level training.

My wife put a rock in her shoe so that she would turn in a poor running performance on test day. She had been selected to train as a diver and did not want to leave her friends.

She instead became a ballet dancer, something she wanted to do and loved it. She is one of the best in Xiamen and is often asked to do performances with her old troupe. She has been asked many times to star in larger productions by her old colleague who choreographs for one of China's leading production companies.

But for sure there are a lot of Chinese athletes who were "chosen" on some criteria.
 
I am not inclined. I admire what he is doing and I think the golf industry should be amply supportive of his quest.

Mmmmm, I see we are playing the "avoid the gambling" posts game again ! (mine)..Thats OK..It is wise of you
to change the subject, to something you know something about. (ie; 'Chinese ballet' and 'rocks in shoes')

It figures you are supportive of "The Dan Plan"..when everyone else in the world, knows he doesn't have a prayer !
..I'm sorry John, but I'm beginning to think someone put a 'rock' in your brain, at birth ! :sorry:

SJD

PS..Are you SURE you are not related to CJ ? (the genetics are very similar) :embarrassed2:

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she came down to the pool room and beat him up in front of everyone

We all like gambling stories.

Tell us the one about the guy (can't remember his name right off hand) losing his wife's jewelry and the man coming to the house and taking it off her hands. They said she HATED pool, so this must have went over like a "lead balloon". ;)

Then how she came down to the pool room and beat him up in front of everyone......this is a classic, they were telling it at the Ft. Worth pool room Tuesday night..good times. :D



Mmmmm, I see we are playing the "avoid the gambling" posts game again ! (mine)..Thats OK..It is wise of you
to change the subject, to something you know something about. (ie; 'Chinese ballet' and 'rocks in shoes')

It figures you are supportive of "The Dan Plan"..when everyone else knows he doesn't have a prayer !..I'm sorry John, but I'm beginning to think someone put a 'rock' in your brain, at birth ! :sorry:

SJD

PS..Are you SURE you are not related to CJ ? :embarrassed2:

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Everyone knows a "+5 Handicap" averages 5 under, not 5 over.

Wow, you just showed your cards didn't you - a "+5 Handicap" averages 5 under, not 5 over. I can't believe you're trying to pass yourself off as a good golfer.....that's ludicrous.

I know all the guys you played golf with in Ft. Worth.....they all consider you a sucker and used to beat you out of your $30 every day......what a gambler you must have been. ;)


You surely meant -3 to -6, didn't you ! :o (I know you know more about golf, than CJ, or Barton ! :p)
 
I know all the guys you played golf with in Ft. Worth.....they all consider you a sucker and used to beat you out of your $30 every day......what a gambler you must have been. ;)

Sorry to burst your bubble, Mr. Wi-ley, but its obvious to me you don't know ANYONE who knew me from my brief time in Dallas/Ft Worth.. Most of my outstanding golfing 'career', was spent in California and here in Phx.

You are real big on "name dropping" so heres one for you... I played golf regularly with Roger Maltbie, when he was just an 18 yr. old assistant pro at a country club in San Jose.. Notice, I didn't say I could beat him, but we did match up, and gamble high..Most of my golf in Dallas, was just practice rounds with Titanic..(my big $$$ stakehorse).. I did gamble a little with Greg Stevens, (who could probably have given you a few strokes) and "$30", was what we used to tip the beer cart girl ! ;)

So you see, I travelled in much different circles, (and a different time frame) then the regular foursome of 'duffers' you
play golf with in Ft. Worth..If you are going to try and put me down, stop grasping at straws, and at least try and inject a shred of truth in your 'tall tales' !..In your future ranting, I would suggest you stick to pool stories... At least you know a 'little' something about that game, but still, nothing about me ! :boring2: :boring2: :boring2:

Better go back to the Acme store, for more ammo ! :grin:
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PS..Are you REAL sure you are not related to John Barton ? :confused:
 
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I have a serious question for you. Where is your personal limit on how good you can become at pool? Let me simplify this by narrowing it down to one shot. Set up a shot that you cannot execute and ask yourself just how good you can possibly get at this shot. What is your genetic program set to? Determine that, reach that level, and then ask yourself if it is really impossible for you to get any better. Barring the laws of physics, I have never seen anyone reach a limit short of perfection where more knowledge and more practice could not push them beyond.
 
I have a serious question for you. Where is your personal limit on how good you can become at pool? Let me simplify this by narrowing it down to one shot. Set up a shot that you cannot execute and ask yourself just how good you can possibly get at this shot. What is your genetic program set to? Determine that, reach that level, and then ask yourself if it is really impossible for you to get any better. Barring the laws of physics, I have never seen anyone reach a limit short of perfection where more knowledge and more practice could not push them beyond.

Sorry not going there. Your question has bad premises to begin with.

I will just say whatever my improvement rate would be, it would be 5% of what someone with "ingrained pool talent" would be. I already proved that by practicing/wasting at least 10 years 5-6 days a week anywhere from 1-7 hours and never got to be a mid level C Player. I saw people just starting the game and practicing waaaaaaaaaaay less than I, surpass me in 9 months or so-then be 2 balls better in the next 15 months after that. I had a couple lessons which is 2 more than the new guys that beat me and i hung around with and got pointers and info from B-A+ players daily.

The straight in shot that I practiced day after day for 8 years or so- I was no better at it the last day than the VERY FIRST DAY. Period.

Like i said i was a 2 over golfer at 16, virtually no white guy could beat me in a foot race- I high jumped to 5'11" in gym class in 9th grade with Zero misses (the bell rang) I had NO talent for pool-none.

PS- You have no idea how frustrating that was for a competitive guy
 
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Sorry not going there. Your question has bad premises to begin with.

I will just say whatever my improvement rate would be, it would be 5% of what someone with "ingrained pool talent" would be. I already proved that by practicing/wasting at least 10 years 5-6 days a week anywhere from 1-7 hours and never got to be a mid level C Player. I saw people just starting the game and practicing waaaaaaaaaaay less than I, surpass me in 9 months or so-then be 2 balls better in the next 15 months after that.

The straight in shot that I practiced day after day for 8 years or so- I was no better at it the last day than the VERY FIRST DAY. Period.

Like i said i was a 2 over golfer at 16, virtually no white guy could beat me in a foot race- I high jumped to 5'11" in gym class in 9th grade with Zero misses (the bell rang) I had NO talent for pool-none.

Fair enough!
 
Sorry not going there. Your question has bad premises to begin with.

I will just say whatever my improvement rate would be, it would be 5% of what someone with "ingrained pool talent" would be. I already proved that by practicing/wasting at least 10 years 5-6 days a week anywhere from 1-7 hours and never got to be a mid level C Player. I saw people just starting the game and practicing waaaaaaaaaaay less than I, surpass me in 9 months or so-then be 2 balls better in the next 15 months after that. I had a couple lessons which is 2 more than the new guys that beat me and i hung around with and got pointers and info from B-A+ players daily.

The straight in shot that I practiced day after day for 8 years or so- I was no better at it the last day than the VERY FIRST DAY. Period.

Like i said i was a 2 over golfer at 16, virtually no white guy could beat me in a foot race- I high jumped to 5'11" in gym class in 9th grade with Zero misses (the bell rang) I had NO talent for pool-none.

Are you sure you are not related to J*** B***** ?....(Just kidding :o)...But I sure hope he notices your post !...This is exactly the thing he will never admit, that really applies to his way of thinking !..He thinks he will become a "world class" pool player, by practicing 'til his arms fall off !...Very self-abasing of you, to admit your shortcomings at pool..on a pool forum... But you certainly have a lot of other accomplishments to be very proud of. :smile:
 
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Some people can play for a couple years and be world class. Some people can play everyday for hours for 10 years and never be better than a B player or so. it's not really debatable.

Pools a tough game,

I could play the drums everyday for years and never be good as someone musically inclined.Some things we're just good at and others we're not.
 
CJ I think you're wrong...

Wow, you just showed your cards didn't you - a "+5 Handicap" averages 5 under, not 5 over. I can't believe you're trying to pass yourself off as a good golfer.....that's ludicrous.

I know all the guys you played golf with in Ft. Worth.....they all consider you a sucker and used to beat you out of your $30 every day......what a gambler you must have been. ;)

I think you're wrong about the handicap thing..

A five handicap means that you average 5 over par.

Jaden <-----a 13 handicap...
 
Really? I don't care. I also don't care about a world full of +4s. I am neither right or wrong at this point. I have simply bet on Dan making the cut within a year of completing his 10k hours. If he doesn't then he doesn't and I have lost a c-note. You will know in about 4 more years I guess.

What I know for sure is that IF Dan makes his tour card you will find a way to knock it. And if he doesn't you will be saying I told you so.

For me, I admire a guy that's willing to chuck his career and do something like this. To go from ZERO GOLF to putting in 10k hours just to see if he can get to world class is pretty freaking cool. That's the type of world I like to live in and even if Dan doesn't make it to the pros he will have grown tremendously and there will be a lot of data to discuss.

Let's review what's going on,, we got a guy obviously in good shape at 5-9 150 who has the means to hired a full time PGA teacher ,, a nutritionist and a sports shrink ,, and in 4 yrs is a 3.3 handicap are you really that impressed by that ,,, and grown from it ,,
Shit I would call it Living the Dream


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I think you're wrong about the handicap thing..

A five handicap means that you average 5 over par.

Jaden <-----a 13 handicap...
He is right about that. It's all based on par. If I'm +7 and you are a -13 I need to give you 20 strokes


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I think you're wrong about the handicap thing..

A five handicap means that you average 5 over par.

Jaden <-----a 13 handicap...

For 99.99% of the golfing world, handicaps are simply stated as: "I'm an 18 handicap" or "I'm an 18". We generally don't put a sign in front of the number because it is commonly known that we get to subtract strokes from our score.

However for professionals, who play better than par (or have handicaps that are less than 0), the convention is to say that they are a "Plus" X handicap.

So, if you are a 13, and I'm Phil Mickelson (let's assume is a +6), he would have to give you 19 strokes per round, which actually means you get to subtract 19 strokes from your score (more-or-less).
 
For 99.99% of the golfing world, handicaps are simply stated as: "I'm an 18 handicap" or "I'm an 18". We generally don't put a sign in front of the number because it is commonly known that we get to subtract strokes from our score.

However for professionals, who play better than par (or have handicaps that are less than 0), the convention is to say that they are a "Plus" X handicap.

So, if you are a 13, and I'm Phil Mickelson (let's assume is a +6), he would have to give you 19 strokes per round, which actually means you get to subtract 19 strokes from your score (more-or-less).

I knew a couple guys who play on the PGA Tour when I was an assistant pro. One of them kept his handicap for a year when he was on the Nationwide Tour. He was a +8 at the time. I would think the top 50 or so on PGA Tour are in the +9 range.
 
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