Need advice/opinions

davidhop

davidhop

Grade A choke master
Silver Member
I normally don't come on here and ask for too much, but this time I am frustrated. We had our local "cities" APA team tournament this weekend. Same as always, but our league operator had allowed us to have a player on our team that was younger than 18. We were told by the league operator that he had checked and made sure that every thing was fine with his superiors and with the owner of the location in which we were playing. The only catch was that if we did win the trip to Las Vegas he could not play in Vegas. This was understood from the start, and he and the rest of the team were fine with it. Anyway, when we got to the tournament and started playing, some people started *****ing about it. Then the league operator says, I am sorry but he can't play.
He had to pay the APA membership the same as everyone else. He also had paid his weekly dues every week, and I do mean every single week all year long. He had a 52 game established handicap. I really do not see the problem with him playing. Also he played jr league for 3 years prior, but the league had to stop the jr division because of a lack of players. The question is, who was in the wrong here? The league operator knew he was underaged, and had knowingly taken his dues and money each and every week. All the kid had to look forward to was this tournament, he couldn't even look forward to Vegas like the rest of us. All he wanted was to get to play.
For what it is worth, he is a 5 in 9 ball and a 6 in 8 ball. I am not sure what difference the ranking would make, but I just thought that I would put them in just in case.
Was I in the wrong somehow, or was the league operator. And what should be done about it?
 
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davidhop said:
I normally don't come on here and ask for too much, but this time I am frustrated. We had our local "cities" APA team tournament this weekend. Same as always, but our league operator had allowed us to have a player on our team that was younger than 18. We were told by the league operator that he had checked and made sure that every thing was fine with his superiors and with the owner of the location in which we were playing. The only catch was that if we did win the trip to Las Vegas he could not play in Vegas. This was understood from the start, and he and the team were fine with it. Anyway, when we got to the tournament and started playing, some people started *****ing about it. Then the league operator says, I am sorry but he can't play.
He had to pay the APA membership the same as everyone else. He also had paid his weekly dues every week, and I do mean every single week all year long. He had a 52 game established handicap. I really do not see the problem with him playing. Also he played jr league for 3 years prior, but the league had to stop the jr division because of a lack of players. The question is, who was in the wrong here? The league operator knew he was underaged, and had knowingly taken his dues and money each and every week. All the kid had to look forward to was this tournament, he couldn't even look forward to Vegas like the rest of us. All he wanted was to get to play.
For what it is worth, he is a 5 in 9 ball and a 6 in 8 ball. I am not sure what difference the ranking would make, but I just though that I would put them in just in case.
Was I in the wrong somehow, or was the league operator. And what should be done about it?
Click to expand...

The League Operator is spineless and a D-Bag.

Next!

Ray
 
More evidence to "Get it in writing" not that will really mean anything if the LO decides to change their mind but "Get it in Writing" Bring the signed and notorized copy to the Tournaments and that might keep the young player in the game for another round. I wonder if the player in question had been an SL-2 if they would have protested so loudly?
 
I don't know the rules

I don't know the rules but it sounds like a long standing exception was shut down unexpectedly. It sounds like minors normally aren't allowed to play on these teams so nobody is in a real good position.

You and your team were treated as privileged characters with the exemption. Not fair to anyone else that went by the rules that might have liked to have had a jr playing too.

The league operator claimed that he had vetted things with everyone and it was OK. He gave his word and he went back on it. He was wrong too.

The other teams were actually in the right but it was a far from classy thing to do especially assuming they had been playing the jr all year.

Finally, the one I least like blaming, the jr was at fault too. He knew he was playing somewhere other jr's weren't allowed to. When you are being allowed to be a privileged character and it is jerked out from under you, as unfair as it may seem at the moment, you have no real grounds for complaint.

I think it stinks that the jr was not allowed to play in this final tournament after being allowed to play all year. The LO owes an apology and I think he could refund some portion of the jr's league fees too, a hefty portion as it sounds as though the jr played all year expecting to be allowed to play in this cities event. I also think the rules apply to everybody and the jr should never have been allowed to play if other jr's couldn't.

Hu





davidhop said:
I normally don't come on here and ask for too much, but this time I am frustrated. We had our local "cities" APA team tournament this weekend. Same as always, but our league operator had allowed us to have a player on our team that was younger than 18. We were told by the league operator that he had checked and made sure that every thing was fine with his superiors and with the owner of the location in which we were playing. The only catch was that if we did win the trip to Las Vegas he could not play in Vegas. This was understood from the start, and he and the team were fine with it. Anyway, when we got to the tournament and started playing, some people started *****ing about it. Then the league operator says, I am sorry but he can't play.
He had to pay the APA membership the same as everyone else. He also had paid his weekly dues every week, and I do mean every single week all year long. He had a 52 game established handicap. I really do not see the problem with him playing. Also he played jr league for 3 years prior, but the league had to stop the jr division because of a lack of players. The question is, who was in the wrong here? The league operator knew he was underaged, and had knowingly taken his dues and money each and every week. All the kid had to look forward to was this tournament, he couldn't even look forward to Vegas like the rest of us. All he wanted was to get to play.
For what it is worth, he is a 5 in 9 ball and a 6 in 8 ball. I am not sure what difference the ranking would make, but I just though that I would put them in just in case.
Was I in the wrong somehow, or was the league operator. And what should be done about it?
Click to expand...
 
ShootingArts said:
I don't know the rules but it sounds like a long standing exception was shut down unexpectedly. It sounds like minors normally aren't allowed to play on these teams so nobody is in a real good position.

You and your team were treated as privileged characters with the exemption. Not fair to anyone else that went by the rules that might have liked to have had a jr playing too.

The league operator claimed that he had vetted things with everyone and it was OK. He gave his word and he went back on it. He was wrong too.

The other teams were actually in the right but it was a far from classy thing to do especially assuming they had been playing the jr all year.

Finally, the one I least like blaming, the jr was at fault too. He knew he was playing somewhere other jr's weren't allowed to. When you are being allowed to be a privileged character and it is jerked out from under you, as unfair as it may seem at the moment, you have no real grounds for complaint.

I think it stinks that the jr was not allowed to play in this final tournament after being allowed to play all year. The LO owes an apology and I think he could refund some portion of the jr's league fees too, a hefty portion as it sounds as though the jr played all year expecting to be allowed to play in this cities event. I also think the rules apply to everybody and the jr should never have been allowed to play if other jr's couldn't.

Hu
Click to expand...
Just a note, but it was our understanding that he had told ALL the teams the same thing...We thought that there were other teams that had younger players, and in fact there was at least one other team that did have a younger player in the tourny. He had won his match, which is what had gotten all of this started. We had received no special treatment, at least none that we knew of.
 
Couldn't say it any better than Hu did.

Y'all got away with something you weren't supposed to, and the kid got some valuable league experience earlier than he was supposed to.

The LO was wrong to promise something he couldn't deliver, but I think he did it with the intention of doing something nice for the kid. He's between a rock and a hard place.. piss off your team or piss off all the other teams (and maybe get in trouble with his superiors).

This is a case of no good deed goes unpunished.
 
that would make a difference

davidhop said:
Just a note, but it was our understanding that he had told ALL the teams the same thing...We thought that there were other teams that had younger players, and in fact there was at least one other team that did have a younger player in the tourny. He had won his match, which is what had gotten all of this started. We had received no special treatment, at least none that we knew of.
Click to expand...

That would make a difference in large portions of my post if the league operator had indeed OK'ed it with his superiors and all teams were told they could have jr's on their teams in a timely manner. All teams should have been told and allowed to vote on it since it was an exception to APA rules. When you sign up to play under a given set of rules you should have the option to quit and get a full refund if the rules are changed.

A bad situation any way we look at it and one that could easily have been avoided so ultimately the whole mess lands in the LO's lap even if he was only trying to be a nice guy. I have noticed that season long policies all change when people are fighting to get to Vegas. There are probably a dozen more threads about people stealing games by being sticklers for the rules without warning after accepting common practice up until the cities events.

Creedo spoke very well also. This mess probably started with best intentions but when people got dreams of glory things went to hell.

Hu
 
davidhop said:
I normally don't come on here and ask for too much, but this time I am frustrated. We had our local "cities" APA team tournament this weekend. Same as always, but our league operator had allowed us to have a player on our team that was younger than 18. We were told by the league operator that he had checked and made sure that every thing was fine with his superiors and with the owner of the location in which we were playing. The only catch was that if we did win the trip to Las Vegas he could not play in Vegas. This was understood from the start, and he and the rest of the team were fine with it. Anyway, when we got to the tournament and started playing, some people started *****ing about it. Then the league operator says, I am sorry but he can't play.
He had to pay the APA membership the same as everyone else. He also had paid his weekly dues every week, and I do mean every single week all year long. He had a 52 game established handicap. I really do not see the problem with him playing. Also he played jr league for 3 years prior, but the league had to stop the jr division because of a lack of players. The question is, who was in the wrong here? The league operator knew he was underaged, and had knowingly taken his dues and money each and every week. All the kid had to look forward to was this tournament, he couldn't even look forward to Vegas like the rest of us. All he wanted was to get to play.
For what it is worth, he is a 5 in 9 ball and a 6 in 8 ball. I am not sure what difference the ranking would make, but I just thought that I would put them in just in case.
Was I in the wrong somehow, or was the league operator. And what should be done about it?
Click to expand...

Further supports my theory that APA is the worst league in pool. They also say you aren't allowed to gamble. I was playing a guy in vegas once that was in the APA tournament (I do not play league) and he said "keep the money low, they will kick us out of the tourney if they see us gambling." WTF. Vegas, pool, gambling??
 
I personally think the league operator is at fault no questions asked. If the people *****ed about it, than either they can leave or shut the heck up and keep shooting. If they feel so strongly about it, maybe they see his skills as a threat, so tell them, if they want him off, play him, if he wins, they have to quit the tourney and pay for his weekly dues for a year, I bet they would shut up.
 
Straight from the manual
http://www.poolplayers.com/tmanual.pdf

2. AGE REQUIREMENTS (p.19)
You must be at least 18 years of age to participate. Some League areas may be
restricted to 21 years of age as State and Local Laws require. Check your
Local League bylaws for age requirements in your APA area. Teams playing
underage players may face penalties. Exception: Junior Leagues, if available,
have no minimum age restriction except where local ordinances apply.



He is under 18? Sounds like the LO was trying to make some extra money not expecting this to ever come up. Should have gotten it in writing
 
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JR n Pool League

I don't really think the LO was at fault, he probably got so much FLACK from the other teams at tourney time that he Had to go back on his word,we've all seen or heard of people pulling a lotta crap at that time, and I doubt if JR will get any of his moneys back either, rules are rules , play by the book!......

but LQQK at it this way, JR is most likely a better player than he was before the league, and now has valuable table time experience on his side, most likely time and money well spent!


David Harcrow
 
The league operator is wrong.

The LO made a promise to you, your team and teammate, and broke his word. You have every right to play for the right togo to Vegas with him to the point that was agreed upon.

It is clearly understandable that he can't goto Vegas because the rules and laws are clearly out of his (LO) control.

This could have seriously effected your chances to win the Vegas trip and potentially cost you prize money.

Your whole team was cheated.
 
According to the APA rule book (note: I didn't actually look it up, I did an internet search) the min. age is 18 to 21 depending on where you are in the country. As LO, he should not have allowed him to play in the first place, but since he did and took his money, I still believe he is at fault.

Good luck trying to get any money back. At best, maybe you can convince him to let him play free next year.
 
I have contacted the APA to see if anything can be done about this situation. I will let you know how it turns out.
 
According to the APA website you have to be 18.

http://www.poolplayers.com/become_a_member.html

If the player was 18 then he is legal and the LO is wrong.

I also don't see anything about not being able to play in Vegas. The area that the tournament is in doesn't have anything to do with the casinos so that shouldn't be a issue either.

Don't they also have junior or under 18 tornaments in Vegas. I don't think that age is a factor about any playing in Vegas.
 
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The apa is mostly a bar league. People under 21 are not usually allowed in bars. The apa allows people under 21 to play if the bar allows it. The league operator was out of line with this.
I understand not being allowed to go to Vegas. The tourny is held in a casino, although you can get to the playing area without going through the casino.
Again the lo is way out of line with this. The othe people complained because this is what apa members are good at. The lo operator has to tell them tough, he is allowed to play.
 
First, report the LO.....if you have to be 18, and he knowingly let the kid play, he's in breach of his own rules.....it sounds like he's allowed others in to pad his own pocket, then denied their access later, which to me is not anywhere near the spirit of the rules....

Second, anybody that would complain about getting beat by a 17 year-old is a tool....they are manipulating the rules....if they would have won, I guarantee you nobody would have said a thing....

Third, join a different league.....I used to be an APA supporter, but the more crap I hear about, the more it's apparent they do not take the appropriate steps to support their own members....
 
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