Need help: finish won't hold on new cue.

R

running

we call her chocolate
Silver Member
I have a local cue maker that is putting a finish on a new cue (John Davis blank) and there is a small area (approx. 1x1 inch) that won't hold the finish.

The wood is sapelle. The finish is a 2 part high grade automotive clear coat. Most of the cue will hold the finish just fine. It's just one small section that starts to fog up and peels off easily after being applied and dried. He's tried it a few times and even tried prepping it with other a coat something (I can't remember what).

He' baffled and at wit's end. Any one else have this problem? And know of a solution?
 
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I have worked with sapele quite a bit and never had a problem with the finish sticking. sapele is kind of a dry wood and will soak up a bunch of finish. I seal it with a clear thin marine grade epoxy first then clear coat it you might try that. You also might try wiping the area down with a MEK soaked magic eraser to try to remove whatever is making it not stick.
I was told by the guy that made Yak Glide the stuff that you put on a shaft to make it slick like "yak / Q / Kcr/ glide" if that type substance got on the wood you would have a heck of a time getting any finish to adhere. It sound like to me that a drop of that type stuff may have got on to the wood causing the problem. Just my guess
 
running said:
I have a local cue maker that is putting a finish on a new cue (John Davis blank) and there is a small area (approx. 1x1 inch) that won't hold the finish.

The wood is sapelle. The finish is a 2 part high grade automotive clear coat. Most of the cue will hold the finish just fine. It's just one small section that starts to fog up and peels off easily after being applied and dried. He's tried it a few times and even tried prepping it with other a coat something (I can't remember what).

He' baffled and at wit's end. Any one else have this problem? And know of a solution?
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I have had a similar problem with a different wood, it turned out that some how I had gotten silicone on a small section of the wood. I end up removing the entire finish on the cues forearm including the epoxy I used for a sealer. I finish sanded the forearm again and over a period of three days I wiped the surface of the wood down with Acetone, which I put on kinda thick so that it would soak in a little. Then I waited a couple of days and resealed the forearm with epoxy, when it was cured I apply finish like I normally do. The problem I had never returned and the finish came out beautiful.

I do not know if there is another method that requires less work, you see I am self taught so in many cases I kinda experiment, if it works well I learned a new method if not I don't use it again.:)

Hope this helps
 
if it works well I learned a new method if not I don't use it again.:)

Hope this helps[/QUOTE]

My quote is , if it works, I learned something new. If it does not work, I have learnt what not to try again.

Silicons, teflons and other nonslip type products are often difficult to remove.
Best bet is to try and dilute the effected area as much as possible like Manwon has decsribed.

Best is to keep silicons etc, not in your shop, but somewhere else. Who cares where , but well away from cuemaking and supplies.
 
Be careful with the Acetone near the veneers if the spot is near them it could make them bleed MEK could also. Just be careful i am sure that Davis blank is nice and not cheep.
 
Silicon is a nightmare. When I worked at a body shop we didn't even allow it in the building....

It could have gotten on there without even realizing what happened. Ever tried to get Armor All off your windshield?? Glass is really smooth compared to wood...

Yah....I have insomnia...
 
I'd remove all finish already applied and start over. Before you shoot finish, wipe the cue with a pre-paint cleaner of some kind. Also, make sure your hands are clean when touching bare wood. This spot could very well be a thumb print from something that contaminated your hand.
 
ratcues said:
I'd remove all finish already applied and start over. Before you shoot finish, wipe the cue with a pre-paint cleaner of some kind. Also, make sure your hands are clean when touching bare wood. This spot could very well be a thumb print from something that contaminated your hand.
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Wax and Grease remover that's what they call:)
 
It could be something as simple as deodorant. When I painted cars at Nissan someone would come around with a piece of sheet metal covered in wet primer. They would hold it under your sleeve and then shake your sleeve. Sometimes the particles that fell onto the paint would cause a crater to form. Actually, hundreds of craters. They had a list of appropriate antiperspirants and deodorants that didn't cause cratering. Ban was safe. Mitchum would get you a trip to the office.
 
This may help & it's free.

I struggled with this for years on about 1-1/2" spot of a plain purpleheart cue. We stripped the cue multiple times over 3-4 years. The cure turned out to be as simple as setting the (stripped) cue in direct sunlight for several weeks to let the wood naturally remove whatever chemical was causing the defect. Let me know if you have any questions and if it helps. gl



running said:
I have a local cue maker that is putting a finish on a new cue (John Davis blank) and there is a small area (approx. 1x1 inch) that won't hold the finish.

The wood is sapelle. The finish is a 2 part high grade automotive clear coat. Most of the cue will hold the finish just fine. It's just one small section that starts to fog up and peels off easily after being applied and dried. He's tried it a few times and even tried prepping it with other a coat something (I can't remember what).

He' baffled and at wit's end. Any one else have this problem? And know of a solution?
Click to expand...
 
It probably goes w/o saying but

We made sure to keep the cue in a room with a constant temperature and a dehumidifier when stripped. Probably overkill but I don't like taking chances.
 
pescadoman said:
Silicon is a nightmare. When I worked at a body shop we didn't even allow it in the building....

It could have gotten on there without even realizing what happened. Ever tried to get Armor All off your windshield?? Glass is really smooth compared to wood...

Yah....I have insomnia...
Click to expand...

Silicon is glass and sand. Silicone is in tits and is used for lubricant. It will cause fish eyes and non stick areas in finish. Don't even own any let alone have it in you cue shop.

Kim
 
ratcues said:
I'd remove all finish already applied and start over. Before you shoot finish, wipe the cue with a pre-paint cleaner of some kind. Also, make sure your hands are clean when touching bare wood. This spot could very well be a thumb print from something that contaminated your hand.
Click to expand...

Hi,

Ryan is so right about pre washing with solvent over your base substrate right before spraying. "Automotive Safe" lacquer thinner is the best bet. CarQuest or Nappa will have it. Guarantees no waxes, silicons or oil and or organic residues which cause fisheyes or in your case coatings failure.

If the finish is UV and the wood species contains high natural oils, this could also be a root cause problem?????

Rick G
 
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running said:
I have a local cue maker that is putting a finish on a new cue (John Davis blank) and there is a small area (approx. 1x1 inch) that won't hold the finish.

The wood is sapelle. The finish is a 2 part high grade automotive clear coat. Most of the cue will hold the finish just fine. It's just one small section that starts to fog up and peels off easily after being applied and dried. He's tried it a few times and even tried prepping it with other a coat something (I can't remember what).

He' baffled and at wit's end. Any one else have this problem? And know of a solution?
Click to expand...

lots of variables here, what kind of 2 part hi grads clearcoat- epoxy,polyester????? tried a few times and tried prepping, with what??? there is an interesting clue here though, one section starts to FOG UP AND PEELS OFF. is this section near a joint? i'm thinking it is. this maybe residue from the adhesive used in the joint. if its an epoxy and not thoroughly mixed, the residue will act like a wax due to the amine which tends to make the surface alkaline. sapelle is a nice wood to finish because of the grain. if this residue is deep into the grain it might have to be completely sanded again to get rid of it. a wipe down of lacquer thinner or acetone may help as well ,(keeping in mind the dye used in the veneers may bleed so use caution around them), let it dry overnight to expel all solvent then re-coat. good luck
 
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