Need Help, Idea's...

SPINDOKTOR

lool wtf??
Silver Member
My Local Hall owner had a talk with me last night, he wants out, and wants me to take over his hall, Id like to, but Im broke, he told me if I dont, its shut down for good, I have helped him manage the place, for 8 years at least.. I dont know what to do, Im not really prepared financialy, and Im short about 4500, my credit is maxed out, so Im having trouble getting a loan.. as you can imagine, Im feeling pretty shitty right now, and it looks like the hall and my dream is going down for good..

any idea's???????????


SPINDOKTOR
 
Maybe you can lease it from him with the option to buy with the lease price being applied to the purchase price, seems like it would be a better deal for both of you other than liquidating.
 
SPINDOKTOR said:
My Local Hall owner had a talk with me last night, he wants out, and wants me to take over his hall, Id like to, but Im broke, he told me if I dont, its shut down for good, I have helped him manage the place, for 8 years at least.. I dont know what to do, Im not really prepared financialy, and Im short about 4500, my credit is maxed out, so Im having trouble getting a loan.. as you can imagine, Im feeling pretty shitty right now, and it looks like the hall and my dream is going down for good..

any idea's???????????


SPINDOKTOR

Well if you're $4500 shy of buying the place, you could always ask him to finance the $4500 if you have the rest. However, if you are $4500 shy, you don't have the capital to run it and keep it going.

I like selftaut's idea though.
 
SPINDOKTOR said:
My Local Hall owner had a talk with me last night, he wants out, and wants me to take over his hall, Id like to, but Im broke, he told me if I dont, its shut down for good, I have helped him manage the place, for 8 years at least.. I dont know what to do, Im not really prepared financialy, and Im short about 4500, my credit is maxed out, so Im having trouble getting a loan.. as you can imagine, Im feeling pretty shitty right now, and it looks like the hall and my dream is going down for good..

any idea's???????????


SPINDOKTOR

I have some experience in the bussiness end of running a pool hall. I will be hard for me to give you any good advice with the little bit of information provide. PM me if you would like to talk further.
 
I know, even If I came up with the 4500 Im still in trouble, he cant finace or wont, I already ask.. I think he might be a little bitter, even tho we are friends, he isnt going to help out that much, whitch is why this is so difficult for me, Id be getting a grand deal, but maybe a little out of reach.. I have already sold everything of value to me, Short of a loan shark, Im out of ideas.....I would just give in, and say I CANT.. but this is not my nature..I already had him to drop the price enough where he is taking a serious loss, as a friend I cant ask him to lower the price any more than I have..

SPINDOKTOR
 
sure, Im open to any advice, PM SENT


Poke N Hope said:
I have some experience in the bussiness end of running a pool hall. I will be hard for me to give you any good advice with the little bit of information provide. PM me if you would like to talk further.
 
SPINDOKTOR said:
My Local Hall owner had a talk with me last night, he wants out, and wants me to take over his hall, Id like to, but Im broke, he told me if I dont, its shut down for good, I have helped him manage the place, for 8 years at least.. I dont know what to do, Im not really prepared financialy, and Im short about 4500, my credit is maxed out, so Im having trouble getting a loan.. as you can imagine, Im feeling pretty shitty right now, and it looks like the hall and my dream is going down for good..

any idea's???????????


SPINDOKTOR

I don't know all of the particular's but from what I'm reading it seems there should be answers. Maybe these ideas will help.

Under the impression that you are $4,500 short I would talk to the owner about that very shortfall.

$4,500 short of what? Short on 100K maybe less. From the tone of your post I would think <100K.

Here are his alternatives if he is retiring. You or someone else doesn't buy the place he will just close it. This isn't a good approach for him b/c if he closes the doors (assuming he doesn't own the building) he can only hope to retrieve some cash by selling off his tables, cues, etc. This isn't any money to retire on.

Since you are $4,500 short ask him to hold some of the debt. In exchange for doing this you would establish a reasonable interest rate for him to receive and you to pay. Along with this you of to pay a little more for the business.

If you lease with option to buy only a portion of the lease money would go toward your business loan payment and a portion will pay for the use of his equipment and your rent.

With offering the interest payment and paying something in addition to your agreed to price, I would surmise that he would think this through a little more.

After all if you fail he can always take the business back and resell it.
 
SPINDOKTOR said:
My Local Hall owner had a talk with me last night, he wants out, and wants me to take over his hall, Id like to, but Im broke, he told me if I dont, its shut down for good, I have helped him manage the place, for 8 years at least.. I dont know what to do, Im not really prepared financialy, and Im short about 4500, my credit is maxed out, so Im having trouble getting a loan.. as you can imagine, Im feeling pretty shitty right now, and it looks like the hall and my dream is going down for good..

any idea's???????????


SPINDOKTOR

I was in the same exact position that YOU are in about 1 year ago.

I ran like hell in the other direction and I haven't looked back.

My advice is to look at this realistically.

Red Flag #1 - You don't have the cashflow to sustain this business or to survivie any pitfalls that may be in your future.

Red Flag #2 - This guy is going under, and you've helped with the management for the past 8 years. Hello...

Red Flag #3 - You're here and asking us.

Taking over a failing business is not a smart move. When you do that, HIS problems will become YOUR problems. Things are not going to change for the better magically overnight. Chances are that if you jump now and try to save this business, your name will be attached to everything when it goes belly up. If you think you're broke now, wait until that happens. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

Running a pool hall is a TOUGH business. I know... I did it for 20 years. These days it is getting much more difficult to keep up with the competition and to keep up with the overhead. If you want to run your own room, exercise patience and wait until the time is right. Build up your credit and your education, and make well thought out, calculated decisions. Doing that is much smarter than jumping in a pool of hot, burning lava hoping that somehow you won't drown or get burned in the process. Think about it.
 
Blackjack said:
I was in the same exact position that YOU are in about 1 year ago.

I ran like hell in the other direction and I haven't looked back.

My advice is to look at this realistically.

Red Flag #1 - You don't have the cashflow to sustain this business or to survivie any pitfalls that may be in your future.

Red Flag #2 - This guy is going under, and you've helped with the management for the past 8 years. Hello...

Red Flag #3 - You're here and asking us.

Taking over a failing business is not a smart move. When you do that, HIS problems will become YOUR problems. Things are not going to change for the better magically overnight. Chances are that if you jump now and try to save this business, your name will be attached to everything when it goes belly up. If you think you're broke now, wait until that happens. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

Running a pool hall is a TOUGH business. I know... I did it for 20 years. These days it is getting much more difficult to keep up with the competition and to keep up with the overhead. If you want to run your own room, exercise patience and wait until the time is right. Build up your credit and your education, and make well thought out, calculated decisions. Doing that is much smarter than jumping in a pool of hot, burning lava hoping that somehow you won't drown or get burned in the process. Think about it.

What he said....BIG TIME!
 
i was gettin ready to post up and i see blackjack has beat me to it. As an accountant i constantly see situations like this and the first thing i thought is...........if the business is failing, are you sure you want to buy it? Why is it failing......is it debts the owner has run up, or lack of business.....is there some untapped resource you see that will turn it around......do you bring something to the deal thats going to make it a moneymaker?

Owning your own business is alot of work.....you need to see reward for it, more than an average job because the headaches and responsibilities. Not trying to be negative but i see too many people get into deals like this not asking the right questions or being unrealistic.......and then its too late.
 
Where did he say the business was failing?

That might well be the case but Spindoktor didn't say that......he just said the Owner wants out. People have been known to want out of all kinds of businesses for personal reasons unconnected to the business being in a particularly bad shape.

Know where Blackjack is coming from though.
 
have u considered a partner ? this way you have someone to share the cost and the headaches, but if you do, pick well partners come with thier own kinds of headaches
 
Talk to SCORE

Find the closest SCORE office and talk to them, it is free. That is the Service Core of Retired Executives and you get some high priced consultants for no charge.

Best case, you have two years worth of operating cash when starting a business. That isn't common but know that 85% of small business ventures fail within the first five years with undercapitalization being the biggest cause.

Maybe this business isn't in serious trouble but it isn't a cash cow either, nobody sells a big moneymaker at discount. You mention the owner is a bit bitter which I suspect is tainting his business a bit. It is far better and easier to make a go of opening a new business from scratch than getting an existing one making a decent profit if it isn't when you buy it.

Unless SCORE encourages you, I would bolt and run from this deal. I have had a couple of businesses offered to me that were worth quite a bit. The problem was that they were deeply in the red at the time and losing money every month. I passed on them.

I hate to see any pool hall close but I also hate to see someone jump onto a train just before it wrecks and it seems likely this hall is a wreck waiting to happen or already started. Look long and hard at this deal. Would you be better off to let him close and buy his or other used equipment and set up shop somewhere else if you want a pool hall?

Hu


SPINDOKTOR said:
My Local Hall owner had a talk with me last night, he wants out, and wants me to take over his hall, Id like to, but Im broke, he told me if I dont, its shut down for good, I have helped him manage the place, for 8 years at least.. I dont know what to do, Im not really prepared financialy, and Im short about 4500, my credit is maxed out, so Im having trouble getting a loan.. as you can imagine, Im feeling pretty shitty right now, and it looks like the hall and my dream is going down for good..

any idea's???????????


SPINDOKTOR
 
Some posters are guessing that the business is in trouble or headed for trouble. Spindoktor - is this true? You have been the mgr. for 8 years. You should know or at minimum have a real good idea as to the financial situation of this business.

Give us more info. Too many posters are offering negative feedback. Are they right, wrong or somewhere in between?
 
not exactly negative

I'm not exactly negative but having owned over a dozen businesses and trying to put together a workable deal on a machine shop a friend owns right now I do know how easy it is to get sucked into your dream of what the business would be instead of the realities. SCORE will make you produce a business plan and business model which can be a real reality check. Any consultant can be wrong, one of the best business consultants around helped me lose my butt in one business, but by and large if they see problems it is better to resolve them before stepping into a commitment.

Hu


Dawgie said:
Some posters are guessing that the business is in trouble or headed for trouble. Spindoktor - is this true? You have been the mgr. for 8 years. You should know or at minimum have a real good idea as to the financial situation of this business.

Give us more info. Too many posters are offering negative feedback. Are they right, wrong or somewhere in between?
 
Business hasnt been booming by any means but its not failing, he is more into repairing machines, the pool hall is just extra income, over the past 8 years he has done well, he has done this every year for the past 19-20 years and has told me Im just tired of it.. Why dont you take over.... I said Id look into it and I have/am.

As far as a partener, I am open to any suggestions, I just dont want the place to close, that would cost me too, as most all cue sales, cases, tip tools, etc.. are sold by me.. with my success with this, is what turned him onto the idea of me taking it over in the first place...I did this for the players, and this was something he wanted no part of, but it worked.


SPINDOKTOR


Dawgie said:
Some posters are guessing that the business is in trouble or headed for trouble. Spindoktor - is this true? You have been the mgr. for 8 years. You should know or at minimum have a real good idea as to the financial situation of this business.

Give us more info. Too many posters are offering negative feedback. Are they right, wrong or somewhere in between?
 
Pool room opportunity

CHECK the BOOKS, look for a partner, talk to Score, you must get the emotion of the opportunity out of the equation. If oyu know any room owners, talk to them. Where are you located? An analysis of demographics wouldn't hurt o ensure that there's no change on the horizon. How muxh of the success of the room is the present owners "good will"? These are just some of the questions I would have. Good Luck last thing, be prepared to work a lot of hours to cut costs
 
Full disclosure required

Before getting into even considering a business purchase, you have to get a full disclosure of the business assets, debts, and cash flows to include sales, and expenses.

You need to know all of these that are going to transfer with a sale:
Building & land price and value (if not not leased)
Internal fixtures and equipment included to operate the business
Inventory valuation (food, beverage, any sellable product)
Sales figures for each month for past 12-24 months history
Monthy xxpenses including utilities, Food and beverage costs, and payroll.
Lease term for building and any leased equipment.
Income for each category such as table rent, beer and liquor sales, Billiards item sales like cues and accessories per month.

========

It is a serious venture to get into and if the owner isn't ready to open his books, he is hiding something.

A lot of owners often have income not fully accounted such as quarter tables and other types of vending that you have to look at as well.

This time of year is the worst time to begin to purchase a business because we are approaching the spring and summer months which are traditionally the slowest income producing months for a pool hall. By the time ownership would transfer for someone having to go and get some outside financing, summer will be here. That is when you better have the cash resources to survive because summer can actually become a negative cashflow for a slow pool room that has a heavy lease.

This is why you need full disclosure and history so you can see just how good or bad the real business is. Daily bank deposit records are the facts of how much the business made each month. If you can't see the banking transactions of the business, then I wouldn't believe anything I saw on the books. They tell the real story of how the business did financially each month.
 
Last edited:
our_auctionguy said:
Before getting into even considering a business purchase, you have to get a full disclosure of the business assets, debts, and cash flows to include sales, and expenses.

You need to know all of these that are going to transfer with a sale:
Building & land price and value (if not not leased)
Internal fixtures and equipment included to operate the business
Inventory valuation (food, beverage, any sellable product)
Sales figures for each month for past 12-24 months history
Monthy xxpenses including utilities, Food and beverage costs, and payroll.
Lease term for building and any leased equipment.
Income for each category such as table rent, beer and liquor sales, Billiards item sales like cues and accessories per month.

========

It is a serious venture to get into and if the owner isn't ready to open his books, he is hiding something.

A lot of owners often have income not fully accounted such as quarter tables and other types of vending that you have to look at as well.

This time of year is the worst time to begin to purchase a business because we are approaching the spring and summer months which are traditionally the slowest income producing months for a pool hall. By the time ownership would transfer for someone having to go and get some outside financing, summer will be here. That is when you better have the cash resources to survive because summer can actually become a negative cashflow for a slow pool room that has a heavy lease.

This is why you need full disclosure and history so you can see just how good or bad the real business is. Daily bank deposit records are the facts of how much the business made each month. If you can't see the banking transactions of the business, then I wouldn't believe anything I saw on the books. They tell the real story of how the business did financially each month.



Ok, Im going to go over the books with him tonight, Im just glad I ask for advice, you guy's/Gal's are up to speed, and I appritiate you taking the time to advise me on this situation, thank all of you, and I'll let you know what I end up doing..

SPINDOKTOR
 
Blackjack said:
I was in the same exact position that YOU are in about 1 year ago.

I ran like hell in the other direction and I haven't looked back.

My advice is to look at this realistically.

Red Flag #1 - You don't have the cashflow to sustain this business or to survivie any pitfalls that may be in your future.

Red Flag #2 - This guy is going under, and you've helped with the management for the past 8 years. Hello...

Red Flag #3 - You're here and asking us.

Taking over a failing business is not a smart move. When you do that, HIS problems will become YOUR problems. Things are not going to change for the better magically overnight. Chances are that if you jump now and try to save this business, your name will be attached to everything when it goes belly up. If you think you're broke now, wait until that happens. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

Running a pool hall is a TOUGH business. I know... I did it for 20 years. These days it is getting much more difficult to keep up with the competition and to keep up with the overhead. If you want to run your own room, exercise patience and wait until the time is right. Build up your credit and your education, and make well thought out, calculated decisions. Doing that is much smarter than jumping in a pool of hot, burning lava hoping that somehow you won't drown or get burned in the process. Think about it.
Spot on!
It won't take much to take something you love and turn it into something you hate the sight of.
 
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