Need help with my break

Worth pursuing?

8onthebreak said:
No problem on cue, due to my cue buying habits, Ive gone from a bk2 to a Carmeli 1/1 custom solid ebony wih an ODEGA tip...it does hit hard :cool:

Great stuff bough people, I appreciate all the input...maybe my break isn't as weak as I've thought..maybe it is...

What is your break speed?
Where does 19 fall against some real good players on this forum?
Is the monster break worth me pursuing?
Click to expand...

Is it worth pursuing? Hell yeah! That's part of the fun of power-break games like 9 ball and 10 ball. I just wouldn't get too caught up on the actual speed or on changing your technique drastically. I've seen 20 MPH breaks that look and sound huge (and get great results), and 26 MPH breaks that looked comparatively weak. The break speed app IS a good tool to see if you're improving, though. I just wouldn't use it on every break to judge your success or failure. Your ears and eyes are going to register a strong break.

The biggest thing I've learned about my own break is that I always break strong if I control my eyes. The more clearly I can see my tip/shaft going through the cue ball at the 1 ball, the harder and squarer I hit. Sometimes I even purposely slow my swing down so I can really see the hit and I usually break even harder on those. Quality of the hit is just really crucial.

I've also learned what to look for when I don't break well. I have 2 or 3 things that usually cause my problems, so I can fix my break really fast by knowing those tendencies (my eyes get lost, my body moves forward too early and my stroking hand doesn't get through, or I rotate my shoulders trying to produce power rather than keeping the same upper body orientation through the shot). Everyone has their own idiosyncrasies that cause them to break well or poorly. Video yourself if you can. It's taught me a lot.
 
ChopStick said:
So, you will have to be accurate to within a quarter ball hit or your results are going to be all over the place.
Click to expand...

You think so? That sounds VERY inaccurate to me. 1/4 ball? If I hit the headball 3/4 full, my cueball is definitely all over the place, or on the floor. My view is that you should be WAY more accurate than +- 1/4 ball.

KMRUNOUT
 
My fastest break was 28.3mph with the iPhone app, and 27mph on radar. My average break is 22-25 mph when I'm doing my normal power break. Though lately I've been breaking with my playing cue at about 17 mph and getting fantastic results in 9 ball. I do a DEAD stop shot. I mean my cueball moves less than 6" after hitting the one. I make the corner ball and play shape on the 1. I actually like to hit it a hair low so the cueball just comes back to the center table or a bit further, and the 1 is usually a mild cut into the corner pocket opposite the side I broke from. I should post a video on youtube. I'd love to get some feedback too.

KMRUNOUT

BTW for 8 ball I still like smashing the head ball from near center table. I can control the cueball well and usually make a ball with a great spread. Of course it sucks watching my opponent run out my great spread when I *don't* make a ball!
 
Look at Johnny Archer's hip/shoulder/arm/wrist/hand/fingers AND CUE

8onthebreak said:
I feel like I have always had an "average break"...I recently measured my break speed and it was in the 19.2-19.6 mph range.

That's with using my NORMAL STROKE...head down, low head, sighting down cue, minimal shoulder drop, mostly elbow and no wrist action...as far as I know. Again...I break with my normal shooting stroke.

I recently looked thru some break instruction and it appears that many strong breakers tend to use hip thrust, arm leverage, shoulder forward and lunge...not to mention wrist"flick"...

I feel like I'm in the stone ages still using my regular stroke for the break...I just focus on accuracy and seem to have decent results.

I would like to get to the point where I'm breaking at 25+ MPH...
I tried some different things tonight, and I seemed to go backwards with most alterations I attempted...

the hip thrust slowed me down to 17-18 mph. I just couldn't get the timing right.

The lunge was a fail. miscues and mayhem.

The flick...faget about it.

The More upright leverage swing was a winner adding .3-1.0 mph.

He shoulder in and leverage swing was a noticeable winner ranging from 19.6 to my highest recordable 21.2mph

I want to get to 24 mph. With young kids and an extremely demanding career practice is limited...

What advice can AZ give me on improving my speed without spending 100 hours in the trenches?

Where does 20 mph stack up with the as crowd? What's your break speed? What's your secret?
Click to expand...


20 mph will get you 2nd place in most matches. :embarrassed2: Your main issue is you're not lining up all your {potential} energy (of your hip/shoulder/arm/wrist/fingers and focusing it down the "Line of the Shot". No one can generate impressive speed/power without knowing how to line up properly. The good news is you can learn it in one day.

Put your gripping hand on your hip (with the cue in it), and put it directly behind the straight line between the cue ball and the one ball (head ball).

Now your hip is directly behind the line with your hand and your cue on the line as well. The hip/center of your body generates the most power into your arm, then your wrist creates the "snap".

Now that your hand, cue and hip are all on a straight line going from the cue ball to the one you can use YOUR HIP to accelerate your hand towards the target.

I can generate speeds up to 30 mph using this technique. The best speed for 10 ball is 24 mph. 9 Ball varies according to table conditions, and 23-26 will generally be the ideal range. imho
image003.jpg
Look at Johnny Archer's hip/shoulder/arm/wrist/hand/fingers AND CUE going directly down the line of the shot. He's able to do this because he lines it up BEFORE THE SHOT. This is the ONLY way to generate consistently focused POWER/SPEED.
 
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Video posted

CJ Wiley said:
20 mph will get you 2nd place in most matches. :embarrassed2: Your main issue is you're not lining up all your {potential} energy (of your hip/shoulder/arm/wrist/fingers and focusing it down the "Line of the Shot". No one can generate impressive speed/power without knowing how to line up properly. The good news is you can learn it in one day.

Put your gripping hand on your hip (with the cue in it), and put it directly behind the straight line between the cue ball and the one ball (head ball).

Now your hip is directly behind the line with your hand and your cue on the line as well. The hip/center of your body generates the most power into your arm, then your wrist creates the "snap".

Now that your hand, cue and hip are all on a straight line going from the cue ball to the one you can use YOUR HIP to accelerate your hand towards the target.

I can generate speeds up to 30 mph using this technique. The best speed for 10 ball is 24 mph. 9 Ball varies according to table conditions, and 23-26 will generally be the ideal range. imho
image003.jpg
Look at Johnny Archer's hip/shoulder/arm/wrist/hand/fingers AND CUE going directly down the line of the shot. He's able to do this because he lines it up BEFORE THE SHOT. This is the ONLY way to generate consistently focused POWER/SPEED.
Click to expand...

Hi CJ and others,
Thx for the help...CJ, can you help me understand what you mean by my hip behind the line...i cant quite understand what you mean to line up...a diagram would be really nice.

Thx Dave, I will check the pivot point of my break cue, I dont know what it is.

Here is a VIDEO of my break...This was the highest speed i recorded at 20.6 mph with the iphone app...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHzpBeJE3qE

I welcome CONSTRUCTIVE feedback from anyone willing to help.
I would be super excited just to get over 21 consistently...Baby steps:cool:
Again, please note, I have a demanding career, a family and very selective time for pool, so im looking for the biggest bang for my buck, so to speak. Simple things I can add easily to catch a couple MPH, I dont need to set the world on fire, cuz if I had a 30MPH break, the cue ball would probably end up on the floor regularly:grin:
 
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Thanx to all, and otterman

I've been working with my break, with my limited 2 hrs a week of match play...and I'm up to 21-22mph average ...from like 19.5 when I started this post...

Y'all want to hear some funny trials and tribulations along the way...???
1. During hip thrust experimentation...launched the cue ball at this old guy at Mach speed, whiz zing right past his head, like 5 times in 10 min...got some very dirty looks from him like I was trying to take his head off:grin-square:

2. At one point working with different stances, I punched myself so hard in the stomache with my back hand when I followed thru that it literally made me sick, lol

3. One day I was practicing the break, trying something different, I broke, and suddenly I had SHOOTING PAINS in my BRIDGE HAND, LOL...what the he!! ??? LOL

And ...the funniest one of all..............................
4. Last night I was working on it and I decided to try the "WRIST FLICK" thing ...so I broke, and just when I broke, I had a shooting pain in my KNEE!!!!!!!!!!!! ....how the heck do you do that...I almost twisted something up bad in my knee by trying to flick my wrist...:scratchhead:
Geez this game is funny...

Anyways, I know it's all different for everyone, but for what it's worth, so far out of all the things I've tried, the only things that have seemed to help was stepping my feet up a couple inches closer to the table, standing up a little straighter so my back arm can swing a little longer, faster..., also, moving my body out and away from the cue a little so I don't make contact with my gut on the follow thru, shortening my bridge a couple inches at the advice of otterman also helped tremendously, cuz it allowed more follow thru, and more control...

Other than that, I'm staying down, using a fairly precision type stroke, not lunging, twisting, flicking, or anything...just smoking it clean thru the cueball with a nice smooth, accurate stroke...

Thank you everyone, especially otterman who took the time to analyze my video, create it in slow mo, and point out areas of opportunity...I really appreciate it.

I'll keep posting higher averages as they materialize. Not flukes...but averages.

Any continued feedback is greatly appreciated.
 
Tap tap tap

nobcitypool said:
Before you go through all those "athletic" efforts, I'd propose you try something a bit different. What you're looking for in power might be stated in a different way. I believe you're looking to impart the maximum amount of energy into the rack. Arguably, that can be achieved by hitting the head ball 100% straight on. What you would gain in energy by increasing your CB speed by a couple of miles per hour would be completely offset and then some by the energy lost by the increased effort causing you to be off center on your head ball hit by even a 1/8" of an inch. Further, if you're off to one side or another, you're not going to squat the CB in the center of the table.

Prove it to yourself (or disprove it). Set up some racks and instead of focusing on power, focus 100% on accuracy. For simplicity's sake and to prove the point, set up a full rack and break from the center, straight head on. Set your primary objective as hitting the head ball so dead square that you squat the CB dead center of the table. Try that for 25 to 30 racks and make note of the results (balls sank and ball spread) for the times you achieved the perfect break accuracy wise (CB in center of table).

Now do try 25 to 30 more racks but crank things up where your primary objective is power. Make notes of results but also include notes on the number of times you scratch or end up stymied because of bad CB position.

I think it would also be useful to try a similar experiment but go for the 2nd row break.

I'm of the opinion that no amount of power can overcome poor accuracy on the break. I've performed the experiment I described myself and found the accuracy route was significantly more effective than the power technique. I was amazed at how much more often I could get the 8 ball moving with a very accurate 2nd row break versus a more powerful but less accurate 2nd row break. Now don't get me wrong, if I could hit the CB 30 mph without compromising accuracy, I doubt that I would be cranking it down. I believe a 14 to 20 mph break can be very, very effective if you have dead nutz accuracy. Watch the lady professionals play some time. The Black Widow has a great 9 ball break and she certainly isn't hitting it 24 mph.
Click to expand...

You are EXACTLY correct. GREAT post. And no point in folks experimenting...because what you have said is FACTUAL and people should just accept it and PRACTICE it.

I would just add that in addition to a 100% square hit on the 1 ball, the breaker needs to strike the CB on its exact vertical centerline.

Hitting the CB with "side" causes a significant loss of linear velocity and therefore IMPACT on the 1 ball.

28% of "total energy" is produced by forward rotation which erodes significantly if the CB is spinning about its vertical axis.

So, use a stripe ball to break with and have the stripe as perfectly vertical as you can. What you DON'T want to see is the stripe wobble side to side but rather it should roll like a tire.

To the extent that it is wobbling...or God forbid...spinning like a top, you will have lost considerable impact force. (There are "specialty breaks where side is used but that is NOT for people trying to improve average breaking skills).

In my book hitting the 1 ball SQUARE and inducing zero side spin on the CB are WAY more important than trying to get from 19-23 mph or whatever.

Also, controlling the CB to the center of the table...or as close as you can is HUGE. Ya gotta squat your rock and you just have to experiment with whether it takes a pure centerball hit...or a touch high or low.

FINALLY...I "invented" a way to assess your break that I call Rate-A-Break.

(-:

Here's the deal. You score "points" in the following ways.

ONE point for...

1. Each ball sunk.
2. For each ball that passes the centerline of the table because it COULD have gone in a side pocket.
3. For each ball that hits the head rail because it COULD have gone in a corner pocket.
4. For each ball that hits the head rail and then goes back down table past the centerline because it COULD have gone in the side. (This one is for you monster masher breakers!!!
5. THREE POINTS for squatting your rock in a square formed by lines connecting the diamonds above and below the side pockets and the first diamonds in from the corner pockets...essentially a big square in the center of the table. If the CB squats but gets kicked out...your tough luck. If it doesn't squat but gets kicked in...your good luck.

I haven't done this in a long time...but if I recall correctly 13 points is a pretty good score...because you probably had a ball or two down and had a BUNCH of additional chances.

(-:

EagleMan
 
8onthebreak said:
I've been working with my break, with my limited 2 hrs a week of match play...and I'm up to 21-22mph average ...from like 19.5 when I started this post...

Y'all want to hear some funny trials and tribulations along the way...???
1. During hip thrust experimentation...launched the cue ball at this old guy at Mach speed, whiz zing right past his head, like 5 times in 10 min...got some very dirty looks from him like I was trying to take his head off:grin-square:

2. At one point working with different stances, I punched myself so hard in the stomache with my back hand when I followed thru that it literally made me sick, lol

3. One day I was practicing the break, trying something different, I broke, and suddenly I had SHOOTING PAINS in my BRIDGE HAND, LOL...what the he!! ??? LOL

And ...the funniest one of all..............................
4. Last night I was working on it and I decided to try the "WRIST FLICK" thing ...so I broke, and just when I broke, I had a shooting pain in my KNEE!!!!!!!!!!!! ....how the heck do you do that...I almost twisted something up bad in my knee by trying to flick my wrist...:scratchhead:
Geez this game is funny...

Anyways, I know it's all different for everyone, but for what it's worth, so far out of all the things I've tried, the only things that have seemed to help was stepping my feet up a couple inches closer to the table, standing up a little straighter so my back arm can swing a little longer, faster..., also, moving my body out and away from the cue a little so I don't make contact with my gut on the follow thru, shortening my bridge a couple inches at the advice of otterman also helped tremendously, cuz it allowed more follow thru, and more control...

Other than that, I'm staying down, using a fairly precision type stroke, not lunging, twisting, flicking, or anything...just smoking it clean thru the cueball with a nice smooth, accurate stroke...

Thank you everyone, especially otterman who took the time to analyze my video, create it in slow mo, and point out areas of opportunity...I really appreciate it.

I'll keep posting higher averages as they materialize. Not flukes...but averages.

Please see my and other member's posts but you are concentrating on the wrong thing....speed...IMHO. What you should be doing is concentrating on the OUTCOME of the break...mabye using my Rate-A-Break scoring system.

You shouldn't even be THINKING about speed...IMHO...until you've gotten the accuracy issues DOWN PAT. Only then, should you start working to boost your speed but when doing so pay CAREFUL attention to the OUTCOME of the break...'cause it could very well get WORSE with greater speed if you are sacrificing accuracy!!

Any continued feedback is greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

VERY funny stories by the way.

(-:

EagleMan
 
Great stuff and completely true, one could just hit slow clean break and have decent results...but My thought is that if a person can develope a 25 mph break, and then slow it to 23 mph WITH ACCURACY, theyll be better breaker than someone who breaks at 18mph accurately.
 
8onthebreak said:
Great stuff and completely true, one could just hit slow clean break and have decent results...but My thought is that if a person can develope a 25 mph break, and then slow it to 23 mph WITH ACCURACY, theyll be better breaker than someone who breaks at 18mph accurately.
Click to expand...

I say again...IMHO...get your ACCURACY first and THEN your speed!

I've read somewhere what the "total rack impact differential" is between hitting the 1 square with a rolling, not spinning CB vs. adding a given amount of SPEED.

I don't recall the stats...maybe some of you science guys can chime in...but I think it is ROUGHLY correct to say that the advantages of a given increase in speed are largely offset by the same percentage of INACCURACY re: hitting the 1 ball square with a fully rolling CB.

If there IS a relative advantage to speed I'm sure it's pretty minor....except regarding your EGO!!!

Of course...given PERFECT accuracy, then an increase in speed will create more rack impact....BUT...BUT...BUT...getting that speed increase while maintaining your accuracy is VERY, VERY hard to accomplish and frankly a waste of time...at best...for medium speed players...say "A" players on down.

BY THE WAY....DIFFERENT TABLES give up different potting percentages relative to given speeds!!!!

You often don't see the pros vary their break speeds on TV matches because they already have the table's breaking speed figured out in advance. But in pre-match PRACTICE you can bet your last dollar that they have tried various speeds to see what works on THAT table THAT day.

(-:

EagleMan
 
Otterman said:
8onthebreak,

I sent you a PM. I've worked through the same issue for a couple years and I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND that you do 2 things: buy a BreakRak, and work on the basic fundamentals of your break before you try adding body movement, a more upright stance, or any of the other techniques that many power breakers use. SVB is generally regarded as the best breaker of his generation. He generally breaks in the 23-24 MPH range and it looks and sounds completely monstrous. He simply has a terrific blend of good power and the purest hit among modern pros. His body movement is very deceptive, because that really doesn't add much (if any) power to his delivery. If you watch him closely, he almost completely stops his body before he starts his cue moving forward, and he really doesn't swing that hard. The purity of his hit on the cue ball and his accuracy on the 1 ball are the biggest factors. Watch Archer as well. Even with his extreme follow through, the majority of his body movement actually occurs AFTER he strikes the cue ball (in order to dissipate the speed/power applied through the cue).

Trying to produce power will often cause you to move your eyes and not keep your head stationary, and those things are the most critical. I've found (for me, at least) that concentrating too much on individual techniques can be counterproductive. Focus on the fundamental concepts: strike the cue ball very close to the center (ANY spin will reduce speed); develop rhythm and timing on you practice strokes; and accelerate through the cue ball with complete confidence and conviction. About the only technical change that seems to universally work is moving your stroking hand farther up the wrap. It really doesn't have much to do with leverage, but with muscle anatomy. Your bicep simply produces more power when it's in a more closed position (think about doing a dumbbell curl; the most difficult position is when your arm is extended, and you're home free once you get past 90 degrees).

The BreakRak will allow you to hit more breaks in 15 minutes than you normally would in 45 minutes racking the balls each time. Otherwise, get a buddy to rack for you while you're practicing. Best of luck!
Click to expand...

I TOTALLY agree with using the Break-Rack. I don't bother with a full set up which is supposed to return the rack to a perfect...on the spot position.

I just put the rack on the spot without the flexible arms and whail away. Then I just manually put the rack back on the spot which takes about 10 seconds.

As for SVB's break...yes his FORWARD body motion stops before CB impact BUT...he, like most other power breakers have what I can THE MAGIC UP MOVE where they finish the stroke standing almost straight UP.

I tried that move and it completely RUINED by break!!! (-:

You just have to have otherworldly muscle coordination a a jillion hours of practice to make it work.

Just check out some youtubes on SVB, Hillbilly etc. and you'll see what I mean. But unless you are a totally natural athlete and lettered in every sport in highschool don't even TRY it!!!

(-:

EagleMan
 
EagleMan said:
As for SVB's break...yes his FORWARD body motion stops before CB impact BUT...he, like most other power breakers have what I can THE MAGIC UP MOVE where they finish the stroke standing almost straight UP.

I tried that move and it completely RUINED by break!!! (-:

You just have to have otherworldly muscle coordination a a jillion hours of practice to make it work.

Just check out some youtubes on SVB, Hillbilly etc. and you'll see what I mean. But unless you are a totally natural athlete and lettered in every sport in highschool don't even TRY it!!!

(-:

EagleMan
Click to expand...

Mr EagleMan,

Please excuse me for this but...

How does one know if one can do it or not if one does not even try it?

Did those guys know they could do it before they ever even tried it?

Just because you & others can't or do not want to do certain things does not mean that everyone can't, does not want to, or should not try.

IMHO There should be more encouragement & less discouragement 'spoken'.

Should most people on this forum not even try to draw a cue ball back because that requires a hit away from the center of the cue ball & they might miscue or should they all try to learn to do it either through a lesson or from trial & error base on some information maybe obtained from this forum?

I'm sorry for going off on your post, but I have just read a lot of discourgement lately & I do not mean from you, but just in general.

Please accept my apology for tagging into your post. I know you are well intentioned & very experienced.

Best Regards & Best Wishes,
 
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MitchAlsup said:
Speed is not the answer, precision is the answer.

There are several point on the head ball, one of these rolls the head balltowards the side pocket, one of these rolls the wing ball to the corner pocket, and a couple of others roll a particulatr ball towards a particular pocket. These spots are smaller than 1mm in margin of error.

You hit the head ball at the right <tiny> spot and the particular ball has an excellent chance of going in. A lot better chance than a big powerful hit at some other spot on the head ball.

The break is more about precision than power.
Click to expand...

If the goal is to break 25 mph, then speed is the answer. The *value* of this is perhaps the topic of another thread.

KMRUNOUT
 
8onthebreak said:
Hi CJ and others,
Thx for the help...CJ, can you help me understand what you mean by my hip behind the line...i cant quite understand what you mean to line up...a diagram would be really nice.

Thx Dave, I will check the pivot point of my break cue, I dont know what it is.

Here is a VIDEO of my break...This was the highest speed i recorded at 20.6 mph with the iphone app...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHzpBeJE3qE

I welcome CONSTRUCTIVE feedback from anyone willing to help.
I would be super excited just to get over 21 consistently...Baby steps:cool:
Again, please note, I have a demanding career, a family and very selective time for pool, so im looking for the biggest bang for my buck, so to speak. Simple things I can add easily to catch a couple MPH, I dont need to set the world on fire, cuz if I had a 30MPH break, the cue ball would probably end up on the floor regularly:grin:
Click to expand...


I just watched your video. Let me offer some advice:

1) SLOW DOWN!! You are in constant motion from beginning to end. You need to *get still*. Slow controlled back swing. Slow your practice strokes way down. Ideally, come to rest at some point. I mean like total dead statue rest. Look at any top breaker. They are not moving all over the place. They are locking in, and usually come to a dead stop, totally motionless.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcNyh2b739o

Watch what happens right before he pulls the trigger. He *stops* dead!

2) Slow down your back stroke. It is very hard to get your timing right the way you do it. There is no real reason to bring the cue back so quickly. The power comes from the forward motion. You almost want to imagine you are drawing back the string of a bow. You don't yank it back at top speed. You pull it back slowly, then *let it go*. Try putting that thought in your head the next time you practice your break.

3) An easy way to make your body do the things it need to do to generate power is this: assuming your weight is very much on your front foot (as it will be if you have any chance of correctly rotating through the break), try making your very first move (and I mean *just* before or during pulling the cue back) relaxing your front knee. Let me explain. For me and most good breakers, the body position at address would likely be a bent front leg, and a fairly straight rear leg. The majority of the weight is on the front leg. Try simply *letting go* of your front knee a bit. This is a very subtle thing. You just relax the muscles holding your leg in the bent position a *little* bit. This will cause your knee to bend a little bit more. This will automatically start your body moving slightly forward. There is a lot more to what you do with your body next, but this little move works great on its own and can add surprising power.

4) Another simple method that adds great power at little cost: develop the ability to snap your hand closed. Basically, you should have a fairly light grip on the cue. For me it rests on the last joints on my fingers. When my arm comes all the way back, and I transition to pulling it forward, the cue still wants to keep moving back. This is great, because it has the effect of stretching my fingers a bit. As I strike the cue ball, I snap my fingers closed. Almost like I am using my fingers to snap the cue into my palm. This advice was given to me directly from Francisco Bustamante. I'm pretty sure he knows a thing or two about breaking! Have you ever been in a swimming pool and closed your had into a cylinder and then snapped it closed to make water squirt out? The motion is very similar to that. You can hear the sound of the cue slapping against my palm when I practice stroke at full speed. The great thing about this is that it doesn't really hurt accuracy too much. Give it a shot!

I hope some of these things help! Let me know please!

KMRUNOUT
 
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Thanks for posting this KM...WOW...I can't believe how little he moves, and how slow and mechanical his break is. Yet so powerful.

He makes it look so damn easy, I don't see a bunch of lunging, snapping, ...he is just extremely slow, calculated, and smooth. That break looks very predictable, and I can see how he could squat the cue ball so well...I'm surprised, and it renewed my faith, that you don't need some crazy athletic break to get speed and power and accuracy...

Whatever he is doing will yield better accuracy due to the lack of craziness.

I'm gonna try to model this break closer...I can see that my rear leg is bent too much...I will try to get up onto my front leg a little more...

Watching this makes me think it's possible to gain a lot of speed, power and accuracy WITHOUT MAJOR renovations, small weight shifts, small timing adjustments, ....thx again
 
Svb's video of break?

Anyone have more angles and clips to post of svb's break?
I'd like to see it from the other side, the back...and from the front.
 
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