Negative people please read!

T

TheWeez

Registered
First off, I really never post on AZ Billiards and I just wanted to get some information that I have noticed off my chest.
We all have seen countless threads of Bonus Ball this and Bonus Ball that, think about this for just a second. How many people are actually making money in the pool world? Who are the people that are actually making money in the pool world?
If you answered those questions which I am sure there is a lot of you that will try, I am guessing that you probably came up with the same names. Out of all of the pool players how many are actually making real money? That's right, not so many! With that being said if we continue to cater only to the amateurs, a lot of us will end up just letting the game fizzle. AMERICANS want an opportunity to make $$$. Everybody has made statements that all other sports pay their pros much more money than can be paid in pool. Imagine this us/you/me, we all get into the forums to find out the latest gossip and see what's going on in pool. However for the most part everything you read is always negative. Of course there are some positives but most people want to see things fail.
Okay, after all of this, you get the point; let’s give these guys a chance to see where it ends up. Let them get a season in and see if they can do what they have set out to do. American Pool will always be here whether they succeed or not, and who knows they might even spark some interest that some of the other major businesses within the pool world have yet to do.
It only takes a handful to start making a difference; we have plenty of handfuls of negative. Let’s start passing on the word. MORE GAMES+MORE SPONSORS+MORE COMPETITION = more Money generated for pool in its entirety.
Here's a quote I read today that I want to share with you,
"Tournaments of today pay the same as they did 20yrs ago! How can anyone be against the only thing that could possibly give pool a chance for kids and the future of this great sport!!!??? Think about it people!!!”
This quote is right along the lines of what I am trying to say.
People may ask WIIFM. (WHATS IN IT FOR ME)
Absolutely NOTHING!
I just want others to have the same thing that someone has given me, “A CHANCE”
 
TheWeez said:
First off, I really never post on AZ Billiards and I just wanted to get some information that I have noticed off my chest.
We all have seen countless threads of Bonus Ball this and Bonus Ball that, think about this for just a second. How many people are actually making money in the pool world? Who are the people that are actually making money in the pool world?
If you answered those questions which I am sure there is a lot of you that will try, I am guessing that you probably came up with the same names. Out of all of the pool players how many are actually making real money? That's right, not so many! With that being said if we continue to cater only to the amateurs, a lot of us will end up just letting the game fizzle. AMERICANS want an opportunity to make $$$. Everybody has made statements that all other sports pay their pros much more money than can be paid in pool. Imagine this us/you/me, we all get into the forums to find out the latest gossip and see what's going on in pool. However for the most part everything you read is always negative. Of course there are some positives but most people want to see things fail.
Okay, after all of this, you get the point; let’s give these guys a chance to see where it ends up. Let them get a season in and see if they can do what they have set out to do. American Pool will always be here whether they succeed or not, and who knows they might even spark some interest that some of the other major businesses within the pool world have yet to do.
It only takes a handful to start making a difference; we have plenty of handfuls of negative. Let’s start passing on the word. MORE GAMES+MORE SPONSORS+MORE COMPETITION = more Money generated for pool in its entirety.
Here's a quote I read today that I want to share with you,
"Tournaments of today pay the same as they did 20yrs ago! How can anyone be against the only thing that could possibly give pool a chance for kids and the future of this great sport!!!??? Think about it people!!!”
This quote is right along the lines of what I am trying to say.
People may ask WIIFM. (WHATS IN IT FOR ME)
Absolutely NOTHING!
I just want others to have the same thing that someone has given me, “A CHANCE”
Click to expand...

All the banter here, positive or negative has zero influence on the real world of professional pool. How do you advise that we "give them a chance"? You used a lot of words up above to say nothing.

How about a clear and concise description of what you personally intend to do? And how you intend to accomplish it. Will you be taking money from your savings account to fund it?

Call my response negative if you want. At least it's not pie in the sky.

JC
 
Boy do you view pool through rose colored glasses. Is your point, you want us to give bonus ball a chance?? I'm confused.
I'll say this though: 00001% of US population know who Shane Van Boening is, maybe less.
At free online streamed tournaments, you have Alvin proudly saying "we now have over 100 people watching this match LIVE!" 100 people! You may get a few hundred for a finals match.

People don't care about pool. That's why you haven't seen it on tv in nearly 20 years.
Heck, people don't watch baseball anymore. Why? It's boring!
Baseball is boring to watch on tv, and so is pool. Especially when you have players who have no personality whatsoever. Watching Mike Sigel vs Earl was entertainment! Shane vs Corey, not so much.

I don't have the answers. Bonus Ball isn't entertaining to me, a serious pool player. How are you supposed to reach the masses. You can't.
Bonus Ball Bye Bye
 
The point is this, The future of pool has to do with everyone and not just people who are doing it now. If we give others a chance there could and I say could as I cannot predict the future help pool. To answer your question I have contributed my money through pay per view. I will not mention any names but I can truly say just about every company that provides pay per view has taken my money... This is not about what I'M gonna do however what I think WE can all do by showing our support.
 
What makes you think the fate of Bonus Ball, or any other professional endeavor, for that matter, is up to us (the members of AZB). Let the pros take care of their own business.
I am far more interested in keeping my local pool room open.
 
Those who post negatively on this forum are perfectly entitled to do so, especially when they offer the reasoning behind their expressed point of view.

There is great knowledge about pro pool, its track record, its history, and the results of pool ventures past among the members of this forum.

As most of us feel that Bonus Ball impacts our sport and might possibly reduce our collective access to seeing the best players competing, we are analyzing something that is, quite clearly, our business.

This "butt out and see what happens" recommendation is, in my view, absurd, and is quite reminiscent of the IPT days, another instance in which pros were naïve enough to believe that the wealth of the proprietor ensured receipt of all the monies that would be due the players.

Same old, same old.
 
Tramp Steamer said:
What makes you think the fate of Bonus Ball, or any other professional endeavor, for that matter, is up to us (the members of AZB). Let the pros take care of their own business.
I am far more interested in keeping my local pool room open.
Click to expand...

good point...I spoke with my room owner a while back about pro's playing in his room..his comment was..it costs him money..there was a time he held a few tournament with pros..but Salem, Ore has nothing really to offer .
 
It's great that you guys have it figured out based on my thoughts. I am a true supporter of pool, and I was stating my opinion.
Tell me how it could hurt, I didn't say that I am here and me and my money were going to help I simply asked to give it a chance.
The haters will always be haters regardless of what is said and done in these forums. It takes both sides to agree if you are a true pool supporter let them fail or at least give them a chance to make it, this doesn't mean that you personally have to support it.
 
I have seen negative posts regarding bonus ball, I have positive posts, and I have seen neutral constructive posts. All feedback provides the promoters valuable insight as to what the fans are thinking. I have seen many posts with very thoughtful feedback for the game that, if considered, could help influence the business model. Whatever point of view is taken by the posters on this forum, at least they take the time to provide their input. If I was running a business, I would relish whatever feedback I could get and use it to my advantage. Ultimately everyone on AZB is here because we love the sport and want to see it succeed. We all suffer with the fact that our pros do not get the respect, nor compensation that they deserve. And we, as fans don't see our sport get the respect and coverage it deserves. I hope the bonus ball promoters use all of the feedback from the members of this forum as they revisit their business model & come back with a truly compelling and exciting reincarnation. They'll know if they nailed it.

- Steve
 
Thank you I will try and make sure not tell what people should do. That is not what this thread was intended for.

Seeing is believing...and I do understand that.!!!

I am a decent player, I like action and I still love to watch the pros. Honestly I could care less what game they are playing. If Bonus Ball is going to give them the shot then I am going to watch, support and promote in the most positive way that I can.

Who really gives a shit about me and I don't expect you to like (my opinion) but face it more pool , more sponsors, stricter guidelines = positives for our industry!

WPBL is basically reality T.V. It's entertaining and a slight opportunity to gain motivation forward in pool.

Where else are the players going to get paid... THE U.S. OPEN LOL(real positive for our sport)
 
1on1pooltournys said:
APA makes a lot of the money in pool and they don't give a quarter to promote professional pool.
Click to expand...

Why should they? Is there something that they owe the pros? I'm trying to remember how much Little League gives to MLB. Not any league's fault that many pros squander away their money and aren't out marketing themselves.

As for the OP, i dont blindly get behind things, especially those that deviate from what i already enjoy.

If you have a problem with negative posts, either pay more attention to the positive ones that are out there or ask yourself why they keep resurfacing. Also, i wouldn't be surprised to find that most are from the same 10 or 20 people arguing with each other.
 
Banks, not asking for anyone to stop do anything you enjoy, just trying to open the spectrum a little when it comes to pool, It just so happens to be WPBL and the quote I read. These opinions are based on my situation and I read tons of positive and tons of negative and I do appreciate your feedback. As you can tell I never have put myself in these forums but hey what do I have to lose. I love pool, Straight Pool, 9 Ball, 10 Ball, One Pocket , Bonus Ball. I am not asking anyone to deviate from anything just open your eyes folks- sometimes changes are good not only to see the good however sometimes changes are good to highlight the corrections that can be made in our sport.
WPBL is exciting and from what I understand there will be information put out to help people who don't quite understand the game.
In every industry people try new things and competitors bump heads, it's all good. If you haven't watched any of the bonus ball watch it ( IT"S REALLY ENTERTAINING) Drama, ability, showmanship, and so much more...
Derby City is exciting,
Tunica is Exciting
US OPEN is Exciting (when everyone gets paid of course) :)
I am sure I missed some... (apologize in advance)
 
The term haters is often misused by those who inexplicably advocate silence.

Yes, some of what is posted about Bonus Ball is a matter of opinion, but certain facts are crystal clear:

1) The game, in its final form, was designed by pros for pros, and amateurs and other would-be patrons, quite a lot of whom post here, had no input regarding what they would like to watch. Too often, the proprietors communicated with the members of this forum with a "we know more than you" tone that some found offensive.
2) The game, we're told, is not for the pool diehard but for a different audience. Still, given that the game seems to me to emphasize straight pool and one pocket skills, it takes a pool hall junkie to fully appreciate it.
3) The launch of the WPBL product was delayed twice and budget overruns in construction are being blamed for a complete breakdown in the WPBL business model after just a few weeks of operations. It has been posted by members of the Bonus Ball team more than once that pay-per-view was not the cornerstone of the revenue picture. Hence, it seems obvious that this venture was badly undercapitalized at the onset of WPBL play.
4) This venture smells a lot like the IPT at the moment: a) proprietor not interested in cooperating with the rest of the pool industry and unconcerned with duplication of scheduling, b) overly arbitrary selection of the original rosters, with many of the world's best players omitted, c) early breakdown of the business model, d) unpaid moneys due to the players before the end of the first season.

While I hope, like most forum members, that the problems will be solved and that the WPBL will pay the money due the players and resume operations, it is tough to be impressed with or encouraged by what I've seen to this point.

I hope that better times are ahead for the players and all associated with Bonus Ball. It's tough not to feel for players that moved to Las Vegas to play in the WPBL only to have their income disappear after just a few weeks.

Finally, if expressing these thoughts makes me a hater, then I'm a hater.
 
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I feel no compassion for pro's who dove into a game that few understand.
How many APA members are there? 250,000?
Maybe 3 actually understand or care about this failure.

You're extremely optimistic thinking the "lay" player will embrace bonus ball. They haven't, and they won't.
It's a game developed by pros for pros.
Not one of these numbskulls have the foresight to cater to the masses, the amateur player, the APA player.

Instead they cater to advanced players who offer nothing to the pool community.
Just ask any pool room owner. The casual player pays the bills, not the advanced/tournament player.

When will someone wake up and give the paying customer what they want!??
And that certainly isn't BONUS BALL. The pool industry, sadly, consists of the most narrow-minded people in business. Period.
 
Exaactamundo!

Tramp Steamer said:
What makes you think the fate of Bonus Ball, or any other professional endeavor, for that matter, is up to us (the members of AZB). Let the pros take care of their own business.
I am far more interested in keeping my local pool room open.
Click to expand...

Only one way to help pool is to help your local pool hall. Grab your buddies and go play, drink the beer and eat the food. If you play league move your team out of the bar and into the pool hall. Realistically, getting young people to play wont work, too many other things to do in today's times. I bought a nice GC and each child (teens) nice cues and they just aren't interested. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him play pool!
 
Well i think the big problem is pool is:

1. the masses dont understand it,
2. they dont know the players
3. it has a bad reputation
4. no support for tomorrows players, kids, most rooms are 21 and over

I wasnt real excited about bonus ball either,but once i watched it it wasnt bad,only because i knew all the players and their personallities and such,the average person doesnt know Scott Frost or Tommy Kennedy. We either need to make these guys household names by putting them into a progressive commercial with "Flo" or get some big named stars like ex- ballplayers like Bret Farve or the Cradashians involved in pool, basically put pool on the map. Also what about having these great players visiting local rooms free of charge just to help others get into the game at their level,there are plenty of guys that could play with them if they would help them a little,plus it would be exciting to have them come to pool rooms and tell stories their past ,how they became who they are,and do a little bonding with the average Joe pool player. Grady Matthews and Nick Varner both came to our rooms and they did create some excitement, for the peeps that knew them,even tho they charged peeps to see them.
 
TheKman said:
I feel no compassion for pro's who dove into a game that few understand.
How many APA members are there? 250,000?
Maybe 3 actually understand or care about this failure.

You're extremely optimistic thinking the "lay" player will embrace bonus ball. They haven't, and they won't.
It's a game developed by pros for pros.
Not one of these numbskulls have the foresight to cater to the masses, the amateur player, the APA player.

Instead they cater to advanced players who offer nothing to the pool community.
Just ask any pool room owner. The casual player pays the bills, not the advanced/tournament player.

When will someone wake up and give the paying customer what they want!??
And that certainly isn't BONUS BALL. The pool industry, sadly, consists of the most narrow-minded people in business. Period.
Click to expand...

I don't understand. Who are the 'paying customers' you speak of?
 
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