Never Seen This Before

Southpaw

Southpaw

Swing away, Meril....
Silver Member
I was playing in a local 9 ball tourney the other nite when a very odd situation came up that I have never seen before. This is just a weekly tourney and there is no 3 foul rule. My opponent broke and the cue ball went off the table. When the balls came to rest, the 1 ball was hung in a corner pocket with the 8 ball right up against it and there was no way to make a good hit on the 1 ball. I studied the layout and decided to call a push. My opponent said "you cant push... I said "why not? its the 1st shot after the break." We asked the tourney director and he said that the rule just states that a push can only be performed after the break and the incoming player has the option to shoot or make the original shooter shoot from where the cue ball is now. So, I shot the 2 ball slowly into the 8 making the 1 and leaving a 2-8 combination. I hid the cue ball so that my opponent would have to jump to make a legal hit. He gave the shot back to me and I ran out. Has anyone ever seen this situation before? Did the tourney director make the correct call? I am not 100% of how the push out rule is stated....It just came to me to be creative in this situation, so i was.....

Southpaw
 
I have ...

had this happen to me before. How close a jump shot was it after you shot?
 
I don't think there's any rule that says what you did was wrong, so I would go with the director and say nice play.
 
Snapshot9 said:
had this happen to me before. How close a jump shot was it after you shot?
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It wasnt an incredibly tough jump shot, but I knew my opponent wasnt very good at jumping so I kinda figured he would give the shot back to me.

Southpaw
 
TD was right. Push should be allowed on the first shot after the break regardless of who is shooting, and regardless of whether or not a foul was committed on the break. Good play, btw.

Good luck!
 
Aaron_S said:
TD was right. Push should be allowed on the first shot after the break regardless of who is shooting, and regardless of whether or not a foul was committed on the break. ...
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A push can only be played after a legal break:

Rule 5.6 -- The player who shoots the shot immediately after a legal break may play a push out ...​

I'm not sure that there is any good play without a 3-foul rule. If the TD deletes a rule, he needs to figure out what else needs to be changed. While his ruling worked OK for the example given, it does no good when it's impossible later in the game to hit the ball on.
 
Bob Jewett said:
A push can only be played after a legal break:

Rule 5.6 -- The player who shoots the shot immediately after a legal break may play a push out ...​

I'm not sure that there is any good play without a 3-foul rule. If the TD deletes a rule, he needs to figure out what else needs to be changed. While his ruling worked OK for the example given, it does no good when it's impossible later in the game to hit the ball on.
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Wow, I stand corrected. It's a good thing I'm not a TD, lol. I wonder why they wrote the rule like that, though? Seems like it still make sense to offer the pushout to the incoming shooter.

Aaron - going to read the rulebook again to find out what other rules he's invented over the years :confused:
 
Help me on this--- If a player breaks and the cue ball goes off the table this can be a legal break but also a foul.
 
Tennesseejoe said:
Help me on this--- If a player breaks and the cue ball goes off the table this can be a legal break but also a foul.
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No, a legal break is a break without a foul.
 
Bob Jewett said:
No, a legal break is a break without a foul.
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hmmm. If I hit the 5 ball before the 4 ball that would be an illegal shot. If I hit the 4 ball and scratched than in my book I made a legal HIT and then scratched. If there was an arguement on this and the defence attorny said did he make a legal hit on the 4 ball the prosecuter would say no he scratched. Did he make a legal hit on that 4 ball? On the 4 ball, yes, but then he scratched. DID HE MAKE A LEGAL HIT ON THAT 4 BALL?:mad: YES! No more questions your honor.
 
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I'd say that the cue ball coming off the table is just that, a table scratch.

I don't think it make the break less legal, he just fouled doing so.
 
If it is not a legal break than the game has not begun. Then a rebreak would be required. Makes no sense!
 
From what I know is that once the CB has hit the 1 ball it's a legal hit...what it does after that would make it a foul....i.e. stratching, ball off table....
________
 
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Guys -

Go read the rules. specifically 5.4 and 5.6. Bob is correct.

A ball jumped off the table is not a legal break shot and is a foul. Opponent gets BIH anywhere on table. Same as if four numbered balls do not touch cushion or scratch or 1 ball not contacted first.

Push out only after legal break shot.

Not saying I agree with that rule but it is what it is.

Game begins when cue tip strikes CB on break shot, not after the break.
 
I'm confused.

What is a legal break?

If I break with a miscue and the cue ball only goes to the mid table:
1. Do I get to try the break again?
2. If I break again---am I on one foul?

Is a foul or scratch on the break a legal break?
When am I not able to push out after the balls are broken?
If I break and do not hit the one ball (9-ball) is this a legal break or a
foul? Or both?
 
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what?

scratch on the break and incoming player has ball in hand.the 1 is unmakeable,ya tap the cue ball,commiting a foul and the other player,the one that flew off the table now has ball in hand.he would be the first to 3 foul if he did the same thing.same thing happened to me and i remember it well.about 20 years ago when i was young an just started playing,i was in a tournament and was playing billy burge"cornbread red".he broke,the 1 was unmakeable,it sat in the corner and another ball was in front of it,he commited an intensional foul,and i tried some crazy crap to try and make it.he knew my exp. was not there.needless to say,i learned that lesson real fast.he exsplained it after.he was a hell of a guy.years later we gambled,after a few years of "training".he gave me a nickname of detroit.wich is funny cause i didn't play out of detroit.thanks.
 
I am confused here. You could not push. So you shot at the 2 slow rolling it into the 8 making the 1 but leaving a 2 - 8 combo but also hid the CB. If you could not push than you made a illegal hit. Therefore your opponent would now have ball in hand.
 
buck15 said:
scratch on the break and incoming player has ball in hand.the 1 is unmakeable,ya tap the cue ball,commiting a foul and the other player,the one that flew off the table now has ball in hand.he would be the first to 3 foul if he did the same thing.same thing happened to me and i remember it well.about 20 years ago when i was young an just started playing,i was in a tournament and was playing billy burge"cornbread red".he broke,the 1 was unmakeable,it sat in the corner and another ball was in front of it,he commited an intensional foul,and i tried some crazy crap to try and make it.he knew my exp. was not there.needless to say,i learned that lesson real fast.he exsplained it after.he was a hell of a guy.years later we gambled,after a few years of "training".he gave me a nickname of detroit.wich is funny cause i didn't play out of detroit.thanks.
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That's the ticket, good post. The player who broke and has fouled because the ball went off the table is now in 1. If the one ball can not be hit with BIH then just tap the cb to commit a foul. The player who broke will lose on 3 first and that player must make the first move.

I believe the rules already considered this situation favoring the player who did not commit the first foul.

.
 
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